Claviateur 4 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Hello, The first thing I do when I get a new aircraft is a full manual flight with stick and rudder only. I noticed that the pitch on takeoff and landing become more elastic with some considerable inertia but it stabilizes somehow with higher speeds. Trimming is also difficult to get right using my joystick buttons. Any idea about this? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Parkin 0 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 This sounds fairly typical. Aircraft handling is "mushy" at slower speeds but much sharper at cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer metzgergva 210 Posted March 17, 2021 Developer Share Posted March 17, 2021 Paul already commented in a correct way. At low speeds the required movement of the yoke is significant and gives you a fine control. Look at the total travel and the the range you need. You may find confirmations on this with many cockpit videos. At high speed the controls become very stiff from the aerodynamic forces on the control surfaces. If you would fly it manually, which is unusual and often even forbidden by company policy, you put force on the yoke and would hardly see a movement. That sensitive they get. So you control by pressure not deflection. AS our controls cannot build up such forces, I just designed them more sensitive but still controllable with our input devices. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claviateur 4 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 Thanks for the feedback, I understand what you are mentioning but perhaps I did not explain it correctly in my initial post. Yes low speeds require significant inputs for fine corrections. Here I experienced something different. Maybe I need to tweak the sensitivity of the controllers but what I meant is that the aircraft becomes unstable with difficult to control oscillating movements on the last phases of landing and initial phase of rotation and takeoff and this happens with the smallest touch on the controls. In fact, the feeling I got seems to me similar to the MSFS FBW A320 during one of the previous updates/versions, where instability and oscillation happened during the transitions between the direct and normal laws (takoff / landing). Here we don't have a FBW system but I had the feeling it's a similar thing that is happening. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted March 17, 2021 Aerosoft Share Posted March 17, 2021 And you are sure you are not set to Legacy flight model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingguitaristsam 36 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 I've had some weird feelings in the pitch axis too, I think its a MSFS thing however. All the airplanes in the sim can be a bit "springy" or "elastic" in pitch. Additionally, ground effect seems way too strong for airliners in MSFS which would explain the "floaty" CRJ and also how the nose actually increases pitch by itself slightly at about 20 feet on landing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claviateur 4 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said: And you are sure you are not set to Legacy flight model? Hello, I use the Modern flight model. I just took a look to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchromley 1 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 The pitch axis does seem to be very odd. With it trimmed properly, it fights any pitch inputs I make and snaps back to where it was previously, almost like I was fighting autopilot despite autopilot being turned off. I don't know how much of this is Aerosoft vs. Asobo flight model issues. I do have the modern flight model turned on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingguitaristsam 36 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 I've encountered the same thing. Almost as if it's too much positive stability. Makes it challenging to smoothly fly the airplane in my experience so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer metzgergva 210 Posted March 17, 2021 Developer Share Posted March 17, 2021 What your settings on sensitivity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingguitaristsam 36 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 I have them turned down enough to make fine adjustments. I've experimented with various settings and it has nothing to do with my hardware sensitivity settings. It's that the plane's behavior if you add a slight amount of elevator and let go is surprisingly abrupt and "springy." Feels very much like some of the default MSFS planes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer metzgergva 210 Posted March 17, 2021 Developer Share Posted March 17, 2021 Nevertheless could you show me your settings. I know it lifts the nose very easily but I see no snapping or anything like that. But I keep the yoke a bit pushed fwd to maintain steering stability and pull back at VR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingguitaristsam 36 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 It will rotate without input actually. I know it's off topic to this particular thread but since you mentioned takeoffs. Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer metzgergva 210 Posted March 17, 2021 Developer Share Posted March 17, 2021 I was about saying this also in the other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingguitaristsam 36 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 It just feels like the default airplanes in how it seems to "bounce" back after releasing pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claviateur 4 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, metzgergva said: Nevertheless could you show me your settings. I know it lifts the nose very easily but I see no snapping or anything like that. But I keep the yoke a bit pushed fwd to maintain steering stability and pull back at VR. In my case, default settings and I use the TM16000 josytick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchromley 1 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, metzgergva said: What your settings on sensitivity? How would sensitivity be the issue? The sensitivity feels fine, the problem is when you release the controls that the pitch axis snaps back to where it was before you made the input. Making the input itself feels fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbird1229 6 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 The bouncing is perhaps something to do with MSFS. I also noticed it on the CRJ hand flying ILS approach but then again I also noticed it on the Piper Arrow I got recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer metzgergva 210 Posted March 17, 2021 Developer Share Posted March 17, 2021 I agree with you that these fast movements back to the previous attitude or heading are an effect of the flight model. But I know there is work going on to soften them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claviateur 4 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 I forgot if all the default MSFS aircraft had this pitch instability at low speed, but the Freeware Mods I use for some of the default aircraft seem to be Ok, probably the Mod Devs found a workaround for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer metzgergva 210 Posted March 17, 2021 Developer Share Posted March 17, 2021 This quick returning back to the previous attitude or hdg needs to ne evaluated further with Asobo. I softened the effect as much as I could without making the CRJ a Jumbo. Bear with us until we found a better solution and just be easy on the controls! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted March 17, 2021 Aerosoft Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 hours ago, metzgergva said: I agree with you that these fast movements back to the previous attitude or heading are an effect of the flight model. But I know there is work going on to soften them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claviateur 4 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 I noticed with the latest update of MSFS some extra drag in most of the aircraft that is also pronounced in the CRJ in landing configs. I wonder if this was the reverse effect of the patch that was meant to fix the extra lift in the flaps. Perhaps this could also be mentioned to Asobo as it's affecting this addon unfortunately. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny875 4 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Thanks for looking into the pitch issues. I haven’t had time to properly evaluate what’s going on with my setup but after landing at the correct speed as per the EFB the nose will not come down until 60 KTS! That is spoilers deployed and then reversers spooled up. I had a couple of take offs where it would come off the ground all on it’s own and a lot of nose down trip is required but also two takeoffs where I needed to pull a bit at VR and then relex a bit then I would need full aft on the stick just to stop it settling back down. Both are with the default MS load and only using the EFB to set weight and FMS speeds. My guess would be that the weight is off because the EFB isn’t setting the correct values even though the V speeds are correct and so is the required trim (about 5.8 in both cases as per EFB at about 1000KG under max take off weight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer metzgergva 210 Posted March 18, 2021 Developer Share Posted March 18, 2021 9 hours ago, Claviateur said: I noticed with the latest update of MSFS some extra drag in most of the aircraft that is also pronounced in the CRJ in landing configs. I wonder if this was the reverse effect of the patch that was meant to fix the extra lift in the flaps. Perhaps this could also be mentioned to Asobo as it's affecting this addon unfortunately. Thanks I have checked all flaps/gear speed/pitch/power data prior the release and all was on target. That was after SU III. A ballpark figuer is about 60% N1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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