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Aerosoft Aircraft: Twin Otter


Mathijs Kok
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14 hours ago, c4590xapm said:

A good exemple of accident is the one In Saint Barth. A Twin operated by Air Caraïbes, crashed onto a house near the approach end of the runway. In fact the captain was in a hurry to watch a soccer game. He did the approach faster than usually. And try to put the reverse on short final. He had not flown the Twin in a while as I believe, he was affected to the Dornier 228. When he realized the plane had not enough energy, he went full throttle. But engines spooled up inharmoniously resulting in a deadly spin. 
 

As far as I know, at least for Saint Barth, they never land with the Beta until the plane touchdown. But even without that, I have seen both from inside and outside, plane landing with an approach speed way below 70 kt and stopping in less than 300 ft. 

Right. So, "beta" sometimes (and understandably) is erroneously associated as thrust reverse. The beta range is simply where the "constant speed range" controller relinquishes control, and prop angle is controlled via power lever. This happens at 17 degrees. The Twin Otter has a beta reverse valve which will start to hydraulically restrict prop angle from 17 to 11 degrees. At 11 degrees, the aircraft is in "IDLE" - though still technically this is a beta range, it is not normally entered into until touching down, as the risk of 1. go-around ability would be inhibited, and 2. the inherent risk of entering reverse beta. Realistically, reverse will not actually be initiated until prop angle is increased below -2 degrees pitch (between 10 degrees and -2 degrees is considered a null range, where engine NG will not increase). Also note reverse is almost never needed in a lot of scenarios - and is discouraged at a lot of hot/and or high destinations due to the engine stress. The Air Caraibes is a good example of crews misunderstanding the considerations that need to be made with the beta range, as well as training. Hope that helps!

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36 minutes ago, angernerve said:

Right. So, "beta" sometimes (and understandably) is erroneously associated as thrust reverse. The beta range is simply where the "constant speed range" controller relinquishes control, and prop angle is controlled via power lever. This happens at 17 degrees. The Twin Otter has a beta reverse valve which will start to hydraulically restrict prop angle from 17 to 11 degrees. At 11 degrees, the aircraft is in "IDLE" - though still technically this is a beta range, it is not normally entered into until touching down, as the risk of 1. go-around ability would be inhibited, and 2. the inherent risk of entering reverse beta. Realistically, reverse will not actually be initiated until prop angle is increased below -2 degrees pitch (between 10 degrees and -2 degrees is considered a null range, where engine NG will not increase). Also note reverse is almost never needed in a lot of scenarios - and is discouraged at a lot of hot/and or high destinations due to the engine stress. The Air Caraibes is a good example of crews misunderstanding the considerations that need to be made with the beta range, as well as training. Hope that helps!

Thanks for that clarification. Lot of awesome info’s ! 

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Keep in mind too that the landing tables are only accurate if you select beta on touchdown too. Often overlooked and probably not practiced enough. It also kills your lift if you ‘float’ on a short field approach which is handy if used carefully (can’t brake until the wheels are on the ground and reverse thrust only reduces the ground roll by about 10%). Just food for thought…

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22 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

Will need to ask about the number but repainting MSFS aircraft remains not very easy as you can't do decals. So to get somewhat sharp details you need 8k textures while we use 2K with decals to get a far better result with far less memory use. We do not plan more liveries at this moment though.

Thank you for the response, this explains some restrictions. I assume decals can't be added to planes separately after? I shall eagerly await release.

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3 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

The whole '42' thing has nothing to do with the release. 

Someone (who likes red wine) said (above) "also [the answer] to the question when the Twotter will be released." I wonder what Twotter he was talking about?

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19 minutes ago, John2 said:

Someone (who likes red wine) said (above) "also [the answer] to the question when the Twotter will be released." I wonder what Twotter he was talking about?

 

And where do you see a link to "calendar week" in that quote?

 

The "connection" of if to be a calendar week was done by users, although the origins of the number had been explained already. 

 

A number without any unit measure says nothing - that's the idea behind 42 and that's what made it so famous in Douglas Adams' book.

 

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4 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

For sure not week 42 and for sure only after SU6 is released. some parts in there that we need.

I see, so in other words we should expect a release on October 42nd 🤔

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6 hours ago, Tom A320 said:

 

And where do you see a link to "calendar week" in that quote?

 

The "connection" of if to be a calendar week was done by users, although the origins of the number had been explained already. 

 

A number without any unit measure says nothing - that's the idea behind 42 and that's what made it so famous in Douglas Adams' book.

 

It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma for sure but let's continue to search for the truth.

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3 hours ago, John2 said:

It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma for sure but let's continue to search for the truth.

I can't believe you guys haven't figured it out yet.

The "42" was the missing primer that solves the mystery if you had all the other clues and were waiting for the one that solved it.

  1. If you take Mathijs' birthdate, combine all the digits to get the number (full 4 digit year) divide that by the square root of the day (on the Julian calendar) he 1st mentions "42" (ignore the fractional remainder)...you get the numerator of the fraction that will be used in the final calculation.
  2. Then take the date the of the 1st flight of the TWOTTER, combine the digits like you did above, and again, divide that by the square root of the day (on the Julian calendar) he 1st mentions "42" (ignore the fractional remainder)...you get the denominator of the fraction that will be used in the final calculation.
  3. Take that fraction you created, and multiply it by 42.  So if for example the fraction is 1/2, then it's 24 days until the release.  If its upside down (10/5 for example), then reduce to the lowest common denominator, get the whole number, and multiply by 42...so in this example it would be "2" or double the amount of days of 42, hence 84. 

Pretty simple if you ask me. :)

If you guys couldn't tell I was pulling your leg by the 2nd step and tried to figure it out, please don't reply and tell me the math is all wrong, because it's completely made up....just adding to the enigma that is the perpetual search for release dates, and having some fun. :)

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3 hours ago, steve dra said:

I can't believe you guys haven't figured it out yet.

The "42" was the missing primer that solves the mystery if you had all the other clues and were waiting for the one that solved it.

  1. If you take Mathijs' birthdate, combine all the digits to get the number (full 4 digit year) divide that by the square root of the day (on the Julian calendar) he 1st mentions "42" (ignore the fractional remainder)...you get the numerator of the fraction that will be used in the final calculation.
  2. Then take the date the of the 1st flight of the TWOTTER, combine the digits like you did above, and again, divide that by the square root of the day (on the Julian calendar) he 1st mentions "42" (ignore the fractional remainder)...you get the denominator of the fraction that will be used in the final calculation.
  3. Take that fraction you created, and multiply it by 42.  So if for example the fraction is 1/2, then it's 24 days until the release.  If its upside down (10/5 for example), then reduce to the lowest common denominator, get the whole number, and multiply by 42...so in this example it would be "2" or double the amount of days of 42, hence 84. 

Pretty simple if you ask me. :)

If you guys couldn't tell I was pulling your leg by the 2nd step and tried to figure it out, please don't reply and tell me the math is all wrong, because it's completely made up....just adding to the enigma that is the perpetual search for release dates, and having some fun. :)

is that the African or European version?

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4 hours ago, steve dra said:

I can't believe you guys haven't figured it out yet.

The "42" was the missing primer that solves the mystery if you had all the other clues and were waiting for the one that solved it.

  1. If you take Mathijs' birthdate, combine all the digits to get the number (full 4 digit year) divide that by the square root of the day (on the Julian calendar) he 1st mentions "42" (ignore the fractional remainder)...you get the numerator of the fraction that will be used in the final calculation.
  2. Then take the date the of the 1st flight of the TWOTTER, combine the digits like you did above, and again, divide that by the square root of the day (on the Julian calendar) he 1st mentions "42" (ignore the fractional remainder)...you get the denominator of the fraction that will be used in the final calculation.
  3. Take that fraction you created, and multiply it by 42.  So if for example the fraction is 1/2, then it's 24 days until the release.  If its upside down (10/5 for example), then reduce to the lowest common denominator, get the whole number, and multiply by 42...so in this example it would be "2" or double the amount of days of 42, hence 84. 

Pretty simple if you ask me. :)

If you guys couldn't tell I was pulling your leg by the 2nd step and tried to figure it out, please don't reply and tell me the math is all wrong, because it's completely made up....just adding to the enigma that is the perpetual search for release dates, and having some fun. :)

It’s all coming together now, like the plot of The Usual Suspects. Great detective work here! ;) 

0DF57E95-DAF6-4310-AC41-C0D25E0457F0.jpeg

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36 minutes ago, John2 said:

Will release after SU6 which is late October so more likely November but nobody knows for sure. 

 

Yeah, that sounds about right for me. We are not far off, but it just makes no sense to release when an Sim Update that is most likely helps us a lot is not yet released.  But it is not time lost as our testers are still finding issues, small and big.

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