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Aerosoft Aircraft: CRJ


Hans Hartmann
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6 minutes ago, Neil J Malloy said:

I agree that MFS is an entertainment product, and will likely never be anything more. I disagree however, that they never said this sim was intended to be a serious simulator. In fact they have repetitively said that this is the most accurate to real life flying in any consumer grade simulator. It is nice to hear that you have products in P3D only available to commercial consumers. The assertion that I do not know about these products isn't really relevant to my statement, and assumes you know more about me than you really do. I am personally not a fanboy of P3D, Xplane, or MSFS. I would have personally liked it if MSFS was working in a more substantial way, before the community was told by people with early access that this was the best flight simulator on the market. The fact that MSFS has a 74% rating on steam, along with the fact that most streamers that were streaming MSFS are now streaming P3D or Xplane says something very different. I am sure that this statement will get a lot more down votes, but it is the reality of the current state of things as I see it. 

Which is exactly why P3D and XPlane will continue to exist. End users have different needs and requirements, otherwise only one will dominate. I believe MSFS was released a year early.  Whence C19 lockdowns occurred, the powers that be most likely decided that the product was "good enough" to release, albeit bug ridden. That said, it's been out 4 months and still has growing pains, but the others are far from perfect as well. 

 

Back to the original topic of the CRJ, this will be released when Aerosoft is ready, whenever that may be.  We are fortunate that the management of this product is sharing anything at all. MSFS has frequent updates and even has their management team on live video with input from the community.  They answer what they can and hint were necessary.  It does suck because we all want to know, but some things are not shared for different reasons we are not privy to.  Transparency thus far has been great.  That said, in the end these companies are in it to make money.  If there is a different product that out performs their's it would be in their best interest to become better.  It is what it is.

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I get a kick (not a good one btw) about everyone today calling for "transparency".  Frankly, what Aerosoft does, how it is done and when it will be done, is none of anyone's business not tied to the company.  You, as a possible client, have ZERO need/right to any transparency.  I have been following the MLB hotstove season now for decades as a fan.  I am shocked at the same type of crap.  Well if the Cardinals say they can't afford free agent X, then the owner needs to be transparent and show us his check book.  That is a ton of whiny entitled crap. 

 

Pick your sim or sims ( I have owned EVERY sim since BAO).  Pick the aircraft/scenery you want.  Enjoy the ones you do and put the ones you don't in a hanger.  No one from Aerosoft, PMDG, Microsoft, X-Plane, LVFR etc owe you anything other than the product you purchased.  Anything they share, good and bad, should be looked upon as a bonus and a learning opportunity. 

 

I saw a guy on Discord complaining about the  weather radar on the FREE FBW mod.  He stated "the technology is well known and easy to compile".  When I told him I couldn't wait for his mod, he of course came back with "pay me full time" to do it. 

 

So if you think you can build a better sim, a better CRJ, a better B737, a better A3xx, go ahead.

 

One last thing.  Yes the add on publishers ARE out to make money.  Business only exist to create wealth, period.  Not jobs or anything else.  Trust me if I could create a company that had zero employees, zero clients, zero product or services and still made me money in a morally acceptable way, I would be all in. Their entire goal for existing is to use a product to pry money from your bank account.  Capitalism is a wonderful thing as it provides people with want money with money and people that want products and services with products and services.  The companies have NO right to know how long you sim and who you sim with and what you wear when you sim and you have NO right to know anything about the company and how they use the money you exchanged for your product. 

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2 hours ago, Mark Crabtree said:

I get a kick (not a good one btw) about everyone today calling for "transparency".  Frankly, what Aerosoft does, how it is done and when it will be done, is none of anyone's business not tied to the company.  You, as a possible client, have ZERO need/right to any transparency.  I have been following the MLB hotstove season now for decades as a fan.  I am shocked at the same type of crap.  Well if the Cardinals say they can't afford free agent X, then the owner needs to be transparent and show us his check book.  That is a ton of whiny entitled crap. 

 

Pick your sim or sims ( I have owned EVERY sim since BAO).  Pick the aircraft/scenery you want.  Enjoy the ones you do and put the ones you don't in a hanger.  No one from Aerosoft, PMDG, Microsoft, X-Plane, LVFR etc owe you anything other than the product you purchased.  Anything they share, good and bad, should be looked upon as a bonus and a learning opportunity. 

 

I saw a guy on Discord complaining about the  weather radar on the FREE FBW mod.  He stated "the technology is well known and easy to compile".  When I told him I couldn't wait for his mod, he of course came back with "pay me full time" to do it. 

 

So if you think you can build a better sim, a better CRJ, a better B737, a better A3xx, go ahead.

 

One last thing.  Yes the add on publishers ARE out to make money.  Business only exist to create wealth, period.  Not jobs or anything else.  Trust me if I could create a company that had zero employees, zero clients, zero product or services and still made me money in a morally acceptable way, I would be all in. Their entire goal for existing is to use a product to pry money from your bank account.  Capitalism is a wonderful thing as it provides people with want money with money and people that want products and services with products and services.  The companies have NO right to know how long you sim and who you sim with and what you wear when you sim and you have NO right to know anything about the company and how they use the money you exchanged for your product. 

Why are you so mad

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2 hours ago, Mark Crabtree said:

I get a kick (not a good one btw) about everyone today calling for "transparency".  Frankly, what Aerosoft does, how it is done and when it will be done, is none of anyone's business not tied to the company.  You, as a possible client, have ZERO need/right to any transparency.  I have been following the MLB hotstove season now for decades as a fan.  I am shocked at the same type of crap.  Well if the Cardinals say they can't afford free agent X, then the owner needs to be transparent and show us his check book.  That is a ton of whiny entitled crap. 

 

Pick your sim or sims ( I have owned EVERY sim since BAO).  Pick the aircraft/scenery you want.  Enjoy the ones you do and put the ones you don't in a hanger.  No one from Aerosoft, PMDG, Microsoft, X-Plane, LVFR etc owe you anything other than the product you purchased.  Anything they share, good and bad, should be looked upon as a bonus and a learning opportunity. 

 

I saw a guy on Discord complaining about the  weather radar on the FREE FBW mod.  He stated "the technology is well known and easy to compile".  When I told him I couldn't wait for his mod, he of course came back with "pay me full time" to do it. 

 

So if you think you can build a better sim, a better CRJ, a better B737, a better A3xx, go ahead.

 

One last thing.  Yes the add on publishers ARE out to make money.  Business only exist to create wealth, period.  Not jobs or anything else.  Trust me if I could create a company that had zero employees, zero clients, zero product or services and still made me money in a morally acceptable way, I would be all in. Their entire goal for existing is to use a product to pry money from your bank account.  Capitalism is a wonderful thing as it provides people with want money with money and people that want products and services with products and services.  The companies have NO right to know how long you sim and who you sim with and what you wear when you sim and you have NO right to know anything about the company and how they use the money you exchanged for your product. 

Say it how it is, love it.

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2 hours ago, Abriael said:

Just as much as Aerosoft is entitled to enact the policies they think better for their business, customers are entirely free and entitled to express their approval or displeasure for such policies, and any company that wants to thrive will certainly consider that feedback valuable. This does not mean necessarily acting on it or bowing to it (customer feedback is one of many tools in the decision making shed), but this kind of business is absolutely not a one-way street. "Transparency" can definitely be an extremely effective marketing tool in the right hands. 

Exactly this.

Quote

But can we please just focus on the topic of the thread?

All we can really do is speculate at this point or share excitement.

 

With the way that sim update 2 was talked about, that it would or would not be very significant to the crj's development makes all of this is understandable. I don't really think many people were expecting a yes or no to a 2020 release after sim update 2. Most probably wanted to know if it was a significant step for the team or not, no one expected the sudden silence. As Abriael said, Aerosoft can do anything they please with their products and or information, just as we can express how we see things. Personally I think that everyone is still exited and rooting for the project, but most have become cautiously optimistic about it, myself included. Still considering this a day one pickup, willing to see how it is from the start. Still wishing the best to the team, I'm sure they're doing everything they can.

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Well... what a bummer. Amazing how fast everything went from 'completely open transparency' to 'not sharing anything anymore'. Also amazing how the CRJ went from 'almost there' to 'no one knows when'. I have to say all this made the CRJ drop from the number 1 spot on my 'have-to-buy-list' to the very bottom of it... But well, since the CRJ is the ONLY item on my 'have-to-buy-list' it doesn't really make a difference LOL ;) I am still looking forward to the release, whenever that my be. It's a pity how the communication about it all spoiled the usual pre-release fun of it all but I've still got plenty to do in MSFS so... no hurry, no worry.

 

As @Alan_A said this does mean there is no real use in visiting this topic every day anymore. On the contrary, I think it's better to stay away from it, which btw goes for almost all flight sim forums I've been visiting (and participating on) the last decades... In the past I often spend more times on forums talking about flightsims than I spend actually flying. Nowadays it's the complete other way around. Forums only bring me down these days and often spoil the fun. But I don't mind. MSFS is a dream come true and I am perfectly fine spending my free time flying in it. ;)

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Vor 1 Stunde, J van E sagte:

MSFS is a dream come true and I am perfectly fine spending my free time flying in it. ;)

 

Yes, you are totally right, J van E. There are so many destinations which are worth visiting and even flying over countries, just "right in nose direction" is very satisfying for me. Planes are quite a lot there; more useables than in other simulators out of the box before... so there is no need for hyrring with the CRJ. 

Of course I'm a little bit disappointed too about the 180 degree-turn in communications - I have had the hidden hope that older times are gone. But it is like it is.

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7 hours ago, Alan_A said:


As a professional mentor of mine liked to say: corporate crises start in the marketing department. 
 

We had a nice community gathered around the developers, all keeping track of progress, exchanging information, getting to know and respect one another. 
 

Then the word came down: enough of that, communications needs to happen the old way, top-down, strictly managed, no more substance allowed here. 
 

So for want of food, the members started feeding on one another. 
 

Completely predictable. 
 

If your taste doesn’t run to street riots - as mine doesn’t - might as well just head over to FS Elite and wait for the release announcement. 
 

It’s guaranteed to be just as informative and a lot less stressful. 

 

Indeed. Take the toys away, and people will start looking for other means of entertainment. It's sad, but this thread has become nearly meaningless now. It was a lot of fun (and very refreshing) while it lasted.

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I’ll be honest, and i’m sure I can speak for a lot of us here. The open communication was great, and something you don’t see with a lot of product-releases. I loved getting a sneak-peak at development and seeing new screenshots and videos. It got me hyped up and even more willing to make a day-one purchase.

 

Obviously things have changed, but we need to be grateful for what Aerosoft has communicated to us. They are a business and we don’t get to decide how they handle these things. Still looking forward to the CRJ, hopefully soon.

 

Take care.

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58 minutes ago, Wuper said:

 

 

58 minutes ago, Wuper said:

 

 

8 hours ago, J van E said:

Well... what a bummer. Amazing how fast everything went from 'completely open transparency' to 'not sharing anything anymore'. Also amazing how the CRJ went from 'almost there' to 'no one knows when'. I have to say all this made the CRJ drop from the number 1 spot on my 'have-to-buy-list' to the very bottom of it... But well, since the CRJ is the ONLY item on my 'have-to-buy-list' it doesn't really make a difference LOL ;) I am still looking forward to the release, whenever that my be. It's a pity how the communication about it all spoiled the usual pre-release fun of it all but I've still got plenty to do in MSFS so... no hurry, no worry.

 

As @Alan_A said this does mean there is no real use in visiting this topic every day anymore. On the contrary, I think it's better to stay away from it, which btw goes for almost all flight sim forums I've been visiting (and participating on) the last decades... In the past I often spend more times on forums talking about flightsims than I spend actually flying. Nowadays it's the complete other way around. Forums only bring me down these days and often spoil the fun. But I don't mind. MSFS is a dream come true and I am perfectly fine spending my free time flying in it. ;)

I can echo this man's thoughts entirely. I was going to purchase the CRJ mostly due to the fact this was the first proper payware for MSFS and Aerosoft was leading the way in more ways than one. However, the recent decision has made me loose all interest in the product and I will likely stick to the FBW mod (FREE) and X-Plane. Maybe in the future you will realise a mistake was made but I very much doubt it as the majority of MSFS users are not on these forums and it's their money you want, not ours.  lockquote widget

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11 minutes ago, ollie_taiani said:

 

 

 

I can echo this man's thoughts entirely. I was going to purchase the CRJ mostly due to the fact this was the first proper payware for MSFS and Aerosoft was leading the way in more ways than one. However, the recent decision has made me loose all interest in the product and I will likely stick to the FBW mod (FREE) and X-Plane. Maybe in the future you will realise a mistake was made but I very much doubt it as the majority of MSFS users are not on these forums and it's their money you want, not ours.  lockquote widget

Couldn't disagree with you more, just because you don't get to see every little itty bitty spec of detail that goes into development is absolutely no reason to change your mind on buying it.  Just seems like you got spoiled too easily with all the announcements.  There are developers that share absolutely nothing, maybe once a month saying "Its going great!" then they disappear again, and people still have excitement for it.  I've said this before and I'll say it again, be grateful Aerosoft even cared to share ANY information in the first place.

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18 minutes ago, flightlevel700 said:

Couldn't disagree with you more, just because you don't get to see every little itty bitty spec of detail that goes into development is absolutely no reason to change your mind on buying it.  Just seems like you got spoiled too easily with all the announcements.  There are developers that share absolutely nothing, maybe once a month saying "Its going great!" then they disappear again, and people still have excitement for it.  I've said this before and I'll say it again, be grateful Aerosoft even cared to share ANY information in the first place.

 

took the words out of my mouth. People are getting upset over the tiniest things (look at the state of the world and you're getting mad because you're not getting a daily update) i loved the daily updates  but I understand (and respect)  the change in policy, I'm heavily invested in the CRJ as it's going to be the first fully payware MSFS aircraft which will enhance the sim massively as I no longer have access to p3d. Do AAA shooters, car companies etc post daily updates about there new products? No, so why should flight simulation be the same. PMDG etc have never posted daily  updates like aerosoft did and I don't see any complaints. In short, grow up, you can't do anything with pictures and videos apart from going 'wow, looks good'. Read the manuals and get readyalso people saying i'm not going to buy day one because of the change in policy, that's the attitude a stroppy 7 year old would have.

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I think the difference here is that the release of the CRJ (at least in the top-quality incarnation that we would expect) isn't necessarily a given. It was always known that WASM alone was going to be insufficient for developing the kinds of add-ons for flight simulator that presumably everyone on this thread wants. It was expected that there was going to need to be work done by Asobo to add additional support to the MSFS WASM runtime to allow for advanced features, but believing that work would be prioritized, let alone actually done, has been a considerable leap of faith. For me the importance of this thread was greater than the CRJ--mostly it was the confirmation that Asobo has been trying to provide a viable platform to enable the types of products that I'm looking for. The release of the CRJ will be a major validation of the viability of Microsoft Flight Simulator as a platform that can support the needs of the simulation market. So while I'm impatient to have a working airliner, I'm far more impatient to know to what extent Asobo is being allowed to prioritize making WASM actually work, what kinds of services they have exposed and what kinds of services they plan to expose in the future. For example, will they provide a full implementation of WASI to really give add-on developers flexibility, or will we end up with a subset determined by MS/Asobo? When will the full set of features be available? Hopefully, Aerosoft can continue to shed light on the current state of add-on development for MSFS. It isn't so much about when will they release, it is more about can *anybody* release (a serious product)? As a community, I think many of us are really anxious about the lack of SDK documentation and the implications for add-on development going forward.

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7 minutes ago, geoffda said:

I think the difference here is that the release of the CRJ (at least in the top-quality incarnation that we would expect) isn't necessarily a given. It was always known that WASM alone was going to be insufficient for developing the kinds of add-ons for flight simulator that presumably everyone on this thread wants. It was expected that there was going to need to be work done by Asobo to add additional support to the MSFS WASM runtime to allow for advanced features, but believing that work would be prioritized, let alone actually done, has been a considerable leap of faith. For me the importance of this thread was greater than the CRJ--mostly it was the confirmation that Asobo has been trying to provide a viable platform to enable the types of products that I'm looking for. The release of the CRJ will be a major validation of the viability of Microsoft Flight Simulator as a platform that can support the needs of the simulation market. So while I'm impatient to have a working airliner, I'm far more impatient to know to what extent Asobo is being allowed to prioritize making WASM actually work, what kinds of services they have exposed and what kinds of services they plan to expose in the future. For example, will they provide a full implementation of WASI to really give add-on developers flexibility, or will we end up with a subset determined by MS/Asobo? When will the full set of features be available? Hopefully, Aerosoft can continue to shed light on the current state of add-on development for MSFS. It isn't so much about when will they release, it is more about can *anybody* release (a serious product)? As a community, I think many of us are really anxious about the lack of SDK documentation and the implications for add-on development going forward.

 

I do agree, maybe it's hopeful thinking but I think MSFS can support complex addons , otherwise why would Aerosoft, PMDG, QW be putting money and resources into MSFS, don't forget we're not privy to everything and hopefully Asobo are working hard on the SDK. Only time will tell, but I can see a future for the sim, don't forget the default MSFS scenery and aircraft are well ahead of where FSX was in 2006. I really do hope an SDK allows the sim to progress

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Yes, there is no question that the WASM runtime for MSFS *can* be implemented in such a way to support whatever our friends at Aerosoft, PMDG, etc. need. The questions are around how much work will it be, how long will it take, and how much of that work Asobo will actually be allowed to do. It is an interesting situation: MSFS is clearly the future and with 2 million users before X-box has even released, it is clearly the 10,000 pound gorilla in the room. If you are an add-on developer, the market has already made your choice for you--you are going to get on board. But those same developers would seem to be very reliant on the goodwill of Asobo to give them what they need. The cross-platform strategy that Microsoft is pushing is certainly a wild-card and it could very well create some conflicts of interest. And if the conflict is between X-box and the needs of an add-on developer, there is no question who is going to win. Which is why it has been great to hear Aerosoft confirming that Asobo has been giving them what they need, and why  it is now slightly disconcerting that all communications have ceased. While I continue to be optimistic that the right things are happening to support advanced simulation products within the simulator, I'll feel much better once something actually releases to prove the point.

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43 minutes ago, geoffda said:

Yes, there is no question that the WASM runtime for MSFS *can* be implemented in such a way to support whatever our friends at Aerosoft, PMDG, etc. need. The questions are around how much work will it be, how long will it take, and how much of that work Asobo will actually be allowed to do. It is an interesting situation: MSFS is clearly the future and with 2 million users before X-box has even released, it is clearly the 10,000 pound gorilla in the room. If you are an add-on developer, the market has already made your choice for you--you are going to get on board. But those same developers would seem to be very reliant on the goodwill of Asobo to give them what they need. The cross-platform strategy that Microsoft is pushing is certainly a wild-card and it could very well create some conflicts of interest. And if the conflict is between X-box and the needs of an add-on developer, there is no question who is going to win. Which is why it has been great to hear Aerosoft confirming that Asobo has been giving them what they need, and why  it is now slightly disconcerting that all communications have ceased. While I continue to be optimistic that the right things are happening to support advanced simulation products within the simulator, I'll feel much better once something actually releases to prove the point.

I completely see your point and hope it's looking good future wise no matter your sim of choice. I think we can't look into why communications have ceased, who knows what is going on behind the scene at all parties, once the new year rolls around hopefully we'll see some offical comms,  

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

You guys are just grasping at straws!  I have the real scoop.

Have you not been watching the moon lately?  It's orbit has begun to wobble even more than usual, and it's going to eventually leave earth's orbit and smack into Planet Nine, sending iron into the sun and (if  you remember your lessons about nuclear fusion... not fission (Frank "The Dude" is always wanting to "Go Nuclear") , FUSION) it's all downhill from there.  Mars is no longer an option because, well, because there won't be a Mars, at least as we know it. It will become the galaxy’s biggest asteroids.

Thankfully, Microsoft has set aside enough seats on the express shuttle for its MSFS partners. Destination is the nearest earth like planet (in the goldilocks type habitual zone), though you'll notice I didn't say exactly where it is.

The shuttle doe indeed travel faster than light. It may not be a good time to tell you, but nobody actually said faster than light travel was impossible (and it is, possible that is), just that the laws of physics as we understand them break down at faster than light speeds (so in your face Mark Walberg, I'm with my man Matthew McConaughey-hey-hey).  And of course you must have guessed that Microsoft has been working with aliens since the very beginning, how else would they have known Steve Jobs was going to pioneer Windows so they could (ut hum) do even an better job with it!  If you can reach faster than light speeds, you can also move around time itself (that part is actually true, too).

Anyway, cats out of the bag, and now you know.  Don't ever say that we aren't the most forthcoming developer in all of flight sim!

By the way, I wish all of you, my dear friends and fellow flight simmers, a good riddance to 2020 and bright, healthy, prosperous and flight sim filled 2021! 

Thank you, so very much, for being terrific Aerosoft customers!

 

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2 hours ago, EasternT3 said:

took the words out of my mouth. People are getting upset over the tiniest things (look at the state of the world and you're getting mad because you're not getting a daily update) i loved the daily updates  but I understand (and respect)  the change in policy, I'm heavily invested in the CRJ as it's going to be the first fully payware MSFS aircraft which will enhance the sim massively as I no longer have access to p3d. Do AAA shooters, car companies etc post daily updates about there new products? No, so why should flight simulation be the same. PMDG etc have never posted daily  updates like aerosoft did and I don't see any complaints. In short, grow up, you can't do anything with pictures and videos apart from going 'wow, looks good'. Read the manuals and get readyalso people saying i'm not going to buy day one because of the change in policy, that's the attitude a stroppy 7 year old would have.

 

True! We’re only complaining because we got a taste of what it’s like to get daily updates. Many companies don’t even do this, so we should be happy we know as much as we do.

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you all go feverish and get excited when CRJ comes out .. the truth is that Asobo is on vacation and after the last update Aerosoft has a few problems and they have to wait until the team comes back to work to help them sort it out .. so I am calling for peace and quiet. a little patience .... amen

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
2 minutes ago, Exile1 said:

Anyone care to share their maiden flight plans for the CRJ? I bet there’s some interesting routes, that I’m definitely not aware of (this being a regional workhorse) .

 

EDLP-EDDK. Already flown ;)

 

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