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Aerosoft Aircraft: CRJ


Hans Hartmann
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46 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

And here it comes....

 

Long time ago, our first release of the F-16. Now I grew up in an air-force family. My father was the guy who was in charge of getting the F-16's integrated in the Dutch Air-Force. As he was a fighter pilot himself he said he ABSOLUTELY needed to know what the aircraft was before he could do that. So he was one of the oldest guys ever to be in the US to qualify. Needless to say he knew what he was talking about. So he helped me a lot when we did that project. 

 

When it came to sounds we asked him to carry a small mike in his helmet so we could get the tone correct. And we got it damned good. Every F-16 pilot would recognize it. But when we shipped the product the customers hated it. They did not hear thee engine howl and whine. In fact they hardly heard the engine. Exactly as a real F-16 pilot does not hear the engine.

 

So ever since the product ships with what is basically the external sound with a few high notes removed. Utterly unrealistic but customers love it. They simply do not accept that an F-16 pilot hears hardly any engine.  We did offer an alternative correct sound set as a download but I think 4 people downloaded that, so we removed it.

 

 

Just goes to prove.  The customer is always right, even when they are totally and utterly wrong.  :)

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This peeves me, especially since in cruise one can barely ever hear the engine of an aircraft, yet it feels like everyone wants to hear an engine in cruise.

 

The sound of an engine is incredibly diminished, because of the rarified air and the fact that the sound waves have to travel through the outside of the aircraft roughly 4-5 times the distance to get to the cockpit. Not to mention wind noise over the cockpit is far more prevalent at Mach 0.78.

 

But hey if I’m the minority, I won’t object to what I get...

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vor 15 Minuten, FlyByWire128 sagte:

I would bet that most customers only experience the CRJ as a passenger (or watching one fly by), so that is their expectation of what it should sound like. 

 

I remember being totally shocked at the difference in the sound of the engines in a B737 or A320 when sitting behind the wing (more of a roar) vs. near the front (more of a buzz).  Prior to experiencing it, I probably would have complained that the sound package was wrong too...

 

Exactly! That's the unfortunate truth! Instead of saying "Oh?! That's how it really sounds here in the front? Interesting!" it's more like... "I was on a flight 5 years ago on this plane and it sounded totally different! They don't even get the sound right!" 😄 

Seems like I'll have to record my own sound package 🤷‍♂️

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vor 1 hour , Caterpillar sagte:

Just goes to prove.  The customer is always right, even when they are totally and utterly wrong.  :)

The rule for commercial success :D But I think I would be happier if people who know it better than me would tell me that I've wrong expectations. In our case we buy a product which intends to simulate a real world aircraft and if real world pilots tell me you dont hear a roring engine sound in the CRJ flight deck than I'm fine with it because I dont know it any better because I've never been in the cockpit of a CRJ (nor any other plane 😥). 

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vor 40 Minuten, vjcarlo sagte:

IF  the Dude puts a 👍 on the Aerosoft CRJ sound set as accurate from the cockpit, then that is GOOD ENOUGH for me  ! 😎

Good strategy 😉

But I think the sound topic is a core decision a developer has to make. The question is which way you wanna go. MSFS offers a wider audience than X-Plane and P3D. You now have many people that are not "simmers". They are more the "gamer" type of a user. So now you have the decision which group you wanna please more. A more roring sound is better for the gamer group because most of them do not care that much about how realistic an aircraft sounds or flies or you leave the sound as "boring" as it is in the real aircraft and please a small amount of simmers who prefer realism instead of a roring sound. At least is this my observation from the conversations I had with other MSFS users. For many of them MSFS is just a game with an open world and stunning graphics. 😥

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vor 2 Minuten, M4V3R1CK sagte:

Good strategy 😉

But I think the sound topic is a core decision a developer has to make. The question is which way you wanna go. MSFS offers a wider audience than X-Plane and P3D. You now have many people that are not "simmers". They are more the "gamer" type of a user. So now you have the decision which group you wanna please more. A more roring sound is better for the gamer group because most of them do not care that much about how realistic an aircraft sounds or flies or you leave the sound as "boring" as it is in the real aircraft and please a small amount of simmers who prefer realism instead of a roring sound. At least is this my observation from the conversations I had with other MSFS users. For many of them MSFS is just a game with an open world and stunning graphics. 😥

 

Asolutely agree! Sad but true...

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14 minutes ago, M4V3R1CK said:

Good strategy 😉

But I think the sound topic is a core decision a developer has to make. The question is which way you wanna go. MSFS offers a wider audience than X-Plane and P3D. You now have many people that are not "simmers". They are more the "gamer" type of a user. So now you have the decision which group you wanna please more. A more roring sound is better for the gamer group because most of them do not care that much about how realistic an aircraft sounds or flies or you leave the sound as "boring" as it is in the real aircraft and please a small amount of simmers who prefer realism instead of a roring sound. At least is this my observation from the conversations I had with other MSFS users. For many of them MSFS is just a game with an open world and stunning graphics. 😥

I do agree with your point... so I amend my quote slightly... As a "SIMMER" who is  NOT a "GAMER", IF  the Dude puts a 👍 on the Aerosoft CRJ sound set as accurate from the cockpit, then that is GOOD ENOUGH for me  ! 😎

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vor 1 hour , vjcarlo sagte:

I do agree with your point... so I amend my quote slightly... As a "SIMMER" who is  NOT a "GAMER", IF  the Dude puts a 👍 on the Aerosoft CRJ sound set as accurate from the cockpit, then that is GOOD ENOUGH for me  ! 😎

 

And how do you know that HE will put a 👍 on the sound set? Do you know what decisions are taken in the development team? Maybe some of the testers aren't that happy with the sound, for others they might be ok... who knows? We all will know, when the product is released and then can decide for ourselfes.

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42 minutes ago, ModsWanted said:

 

And how do you know that HE will put a 👍 on the sound set

huuhhhh ?  How 'bout asking him ? watch...

 

@TheDude ..you have flown countless hours in the CRJ which is set to release in under 10 days.  Would you rate the CRJ's sound package  with  a  👍 as compared to your years in the cockpit of your RW CRJ's ?

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vor 44 Minuten, vjcarlo sagte:

huuhhhh ?  How 'bout asking him ? watch...

 

@TheDude ..you have flown countless hours in the CRJ which is set to release in under 10 days.  Would you rate the CRJ's sound package  with  a  👍 as compared to your years in the cockpit of your RW CRJ's ?

 

I think I expressed myself wrongly, sorry for my English. The point is, that the duty of a tester / supporter is not to criticise the product OPENLY where everybody can read it. All the criticism (which mostly results in improvement of the product) stays behind closed doors and goes directly to the development team, where the lead developer / project manager decides what needs to be done and what's nice to have. So even if you ask any of the testers here for their personal opinion, you can't always expect an honest answer (no offense to the testers and supporters). That's how product development works. So at the end it doesn't really matter who you ask, they all might say "yeah, it's spot on!" but it doesn't mean it will be the same to you... that's why I said, we all will see, when the product is released.

Compared the sounds in the cockpit of the real thing, to the AS CRJ, I can say from my experience, that it does not represent the reality. Which is not bad at all! As Mathijs already told us in his F-16 story, it sometimes even adverse the situation when you bring the realism to the people. It is always a balance between playability and realism. It is absolutely necessary to concentrate on things which make the majority of customers happy, when yo want to finish a product. If you try to make a product which 100% the real thing, you might never get it done.

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  • CRJ Forum Moderator

Listening to The Dude’s second take of the takeoff and in-flight video with headphones, it sounds like they may have implemented slipstream noise. I could hear something like that building up as the aircraft accelerated when leveling off.


I’m not a CRJ pilot, but am a CRJ mechanic, and have ridden in the jump seat many many times, and can say that the engine noise is cruise is not very loud at all - (it is a bit louder on takeoff and initial climb, but still pretty quiet). Even as a passenger in the cabin, a CRJ does not generate high engine noise levels - and what noise there is is louder in the back, than in the front. 
 

On the flight deck, the sound of the air rushing over the nose and windscreens is much more noticeable in cruise than the engines. The flight deck also has powerful avionics cooling fans which are rather loud even when parked at the gate.

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I REALLY hope they don't dumb down the sound set of what looks to be the first realistic simulation for MSFS just to please a few gamers.  Look at what PMDG has done with their last few releases, and what FS labs has done since the beginning.  In those aircraft you can hear the engines at takeoff and low altitude, they are LOUD! As in real life.  But during cruise, you can;t hear anything other than a low frequency groan because as the air gets very thin and your speed increases the sound the engine makes is completely different.  There should be no high pitched jet whine or "buzzsaw" at altitude, not just because of wind noise, but because of the physics of sound and the air density.  So I think it is possibple to please the gamers by simulating realistic sounds, because jet aircraft do sound quite loud during takeoff but the sound set should adjust for air density.  Besides, even the casual gamer who is used to sitting in the passenger cabin won't hear anything but a low frequency groan at cruise altitude.  When FSlabs and now PMDG implemented this technique of simulating the changing sound it really increased the immersion because even me as a passenger in a real airliner can recognize that the sound is different at low altitude compared to high altitude.  

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Hi there, just wondering about the paint kit. I know you guys said that it wouldn't be released before the aircraft itself, that's not what I'm wondering about. I'm wondering about what kind of paint kit it will be. Mathijs said that there was a "pretty interesting way" for us to make 3rd party liveries without having access to the 3d model, care to elaborate? (Or rather; can you?) as I'm interested in knowing what I'm signing up for before promising anything to the "The CRJ Community"

If no, then I get it. I'm just curious because I've already been requested to make three different liveries and we haven't even (as far as I'm aware) seen an official livery list yet.

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I was reading a post in the airbus forum specifically about bundles. Mathijs you agreed with a post that said there possible will be a bundle for the 700/500 pack and the 900/1000 pack. Would it therefore be cost effective to wait until the second package come out? Maybe I misinterpreted the post and that is only for the airbuses but I though I would ask. Thanks in advance. 

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vor 16 Stunden , Mathijs Kok sagte:

 

And here it comes....

 

Long time ago, our first release of the F-16. Now I grew up in an air-force family. My father was the guy who was in charge of getting the F-16's integrated in the Dutch Air-Force. As he was a fighter pilot himself he said he ABSOLUTELY needed to know what the aircraft was before he could do that. So he was one of the oldest guys ever to be in the US to qualify. Needless to say he knew what he was talking about. So he helped me a lot when we did that project. 

 

When it came to sounds we asked him to carry a small mike in his helmet so we could get the tone correct. And we got it damned good. Every F-16 pilot would recognize it. But when we shipped the product the customers hated it. They did not hear thee engine howl and whine. In fact they hardly heard the engine. Exactly as a real F-16 pilot does not hear the engine.

 

So ever since the product ships with what is basically the external sound with a few high notes removed. Utterly unrealistic but customers love it. They simply do not accept that an F-16 pilot hears hardly any engine.  We did offer an alternative correct sound set as a download but I think 4 people downloaded that, so we removed it.

 

 

There is but one thing to consider here Mathijs: we don't sit in a real F16 (or other ACFT) to feel the ENG pushing our buttocks.

Basicaly we sit still infront of our displays and have to "feel" the movement with other senses (eyes + ears).

 

While I have much consideration for you guys trying to match the real sounds, I think reproducing them 100% like heard under a helmet or headset, will not have the wanted impact on us simmers.

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
11 hours ago, vjcarlo said:

huuhhhh ?  How 'bout asking him ? watch...

 

@TheDude ..you have flown countless hours in the CRJ which is set to release in under 10 days.  Would you rate the CRJ's sound package  with  a  👍 as compared to your years in the cockpit of your RW CRJ's ?

 

This is a question that can only get a highly subjective answer. I have flown the RW CRJ with the worse headset there is and with the best headset (Bose) there is. The experience between the two would make you think you were flying another aircraft.

 

IRL we pilots like the cockpit the best that is also the quietest. Why? Because we sit and work there for hours and hours. As already stated by others here; you really do not hear the engines that much IRL. They are not Merlin engines with that beautiful sound. They are not GE90s which you will hear starting up from miles away. They are also not Trent 700s that make nice howling sounds during take off. They are basically APU's ;) 

 

What you hear onground are those pesky loud fans the whole time. If AS would model those realistically there would be an uproar. And inflight you mainly hear the slipstream. During one of our RW acceptance flights we "had" to kick in full rudder at FL370 to test the yawdamper. Hearing the slipstream coming from the right side of the cockpit instead of straight on was a very unsettling experience. 

 

Everybody has different expectations about what a soundset should bring to the table. Did it meet all my expectations? No. Is the soundset bad? No. Is the soundset nice? Yes. There are companies that do a better job for more money and there are companies (not meaning AS here) that fall short a bit. 

 

Based on your personal expectations your milage will vary.....

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1 hour ago, The Dude said:

And here is my latest video! In this video I will show you what you can expect from the EFB that comes with the CRJ:

 

 

 

I really like the option to make your PFD pink lol 😆

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

I am uploading the EFB video again and it will now be offline for a little bit. Unfortunately the Noise Reduction tried to cancel out those pesky cockpit fans and it messed up my speech. Pending YT processing this can take up to two hours. Sorry for that.

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7 hours ago, riskas123 said:

Hi there, just wondering about the paint kit. I know you guys said that it wouldn't be released before the aircraft itself, that's not what I'm wondering about. I'm wondering about what kind of paint kit it will be. Mathijs said that there was a "pretty interesting way" for us to make 3rd party liveries without having access to the 3d model, care to elaborate? (Or rather; can you?) as I'm interested in knowing what I'm signing up for before promising anything to the "The CRJ Community"

If no, then I get it. I'm just curious because I've already been requested to make three different liveries and we haven't even (as far as I'm aware) seen an official livery list yet.

I know they don't operate them but I think an Hawaiian CRJ would look amazing

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