Microsoft Flight Simulator Aerosoft Aircraft: CRJ

[Mathijs Kok 38901]

16 minutes ago, pepperoni505 said:

. I don't see how that should impact performance.

 

Well believe me when I say it affects performance and memory use. It will not change. 

[Stefan Hoffmann 3987]

vor 18 Minuten, pepperoni505 sagte:

Sorry if I broke any rules on my last comment. I am very excited for the CRJ, but I was wondering if there were any plans to possibly upscale the textures of the cabin. Here is a pic from The Dude's latest Come Fly With Me episode: 

You can see how the cabin textures are a much lower resolution than the exterior. I don't see how that should impact performance.

The cabin was never thought to walk in or sit in and for costumer pleasure we added the window seals for a satisfying experience. If it´s only the door sides there may be the possibility we go over that again with more detail, but the cabin in itself will surely not see more resolution. There is a boundary value on textures and geometry the sim can take which costs also CPU time to prepare the data for the GPU what many forget. But the CPU has also to serve the rest of the sim: environment, scenery, flight model, systems modeling, AI traffic and much more. It is simply not possible to add endless detail and system simulation. The more you add, the slower the overall performance gets and the quality of development is also to not loose both dimensions out of sight. The default airliners by the way NOT come with any full cabin, but simulate only single window places you can look out. As the windows of the CRJ are rather large, we could not go the parallax texture way on the MSFS airliners to simulate a 3d outside cabin view with a special shader, but had fully to model any single cabin layout so for 550, 700, 900 and 1000.

[HugoTro 36]

19 minutes ago, pepperoni505 said:

Sorry if I broke any rules on my last comment. I am very excited for the CRJ, but I was wondering if there were any plans to possibly upscale the textures of the cabin. Here is a pic from The Dude's latest Come Fly With Me episode: 

You can see how the cabin textures are a much lower resolution than the exterior. I don't see how that should impact performance.

I mean, if we have some 8K liveries for default aircraft, we can maybe hope for an 8K cabin texture to be made by a livery creator or similar, who knows...

[Stefan Hoffmann 3987]

vor 2 Minuten, HugoTro sagte:

I mean, if we have some 8K liveries for default aircraft, we can maybe hope for an 8K cabin texture to be made by a livery creator or similar, who knows...

Where do you have 8K liveries?

[Valastiri 2]

4 minutes ago, Stefan Hoffmann said:

The cabin was never thought to walk in or sit in and for costumer pleasure we added the window seals for a satisfying experience. If it´s only the door sides there may be the possibility we go over that again with more detail, but the cabin in itself will surely not see more resolution. There is a boundary value on textures and geometry the sim can take which costs also CPU time to prepare the data for the GPU what many forget. But the CPU has also to serve the rest of the sim: environment, scenery, flight model, systems modeling, AI traffic and much more. It is simply not possible to add endless detail and system simulation. The more you add, the slower the overall performance gets and the quality of development is also to not loose both dimensions out of sight. The default airliners by the way NOT come with any full cabin, but simulate only single window places you can look out. As the windows of the CRJ are rather large, we could not go the parallax texture way on the MSFS airliners to simulate a 3d outside cabin view with a special shader, but had fully to model any single cabin layout so for 550, 700, 900 and 1000.

This is a great detailed response and alleviated some my concerns as posted by the OP. I'm more inclined to purchase with the knowledge of "why" something is at the tail end of development than a blanket belief that it is what it is.

Thanks!

[mrPhakel 1]

8 minutes ago, Stefan Hoffmann said:

Никогда не думали, что в кабину можно войти или сидеть, и для удовольствия клиента мы добавили оконные уплотнители, чтобы получить удовольствие. Если речь идет только о дверных сторонах, возможно, мы рассмотрим это еще раз с более подробным описанием, но сама кабина, конечно же, не получит большего разрешения. Существует граничное значение для текстур и геометрии, которое может использовать сим, которое также требует времени процессора для подготовки данных для графического процессора, о чем многие забывают. Но ЦП также должен обслуживать остальную часть симулятора: среду, декорации, модель полета, моделирование систем, трафик ИИ и многое другое. Просто невозможно добавить бесконечные детали и симуляцию системы. Чем больше вы добавляете, тем медленнее становится общая производительность и качество разработки, чтобы не потерять оба аспекта из виду. Кстати, авиалайнеры по умолчанию НЕ идут с полной кабиной, но имитируйте только те места, из которых вы можете наблюдать за одним окном. Поскольку окна CRJ довольно большие, мы не могли использовать текстуру параллакса на авиалайнерах MSFS для имитации трехмерного внешнего вида кабины с помощью специального шейдера, но должны были полностью смоделировать любую отдельную компоновку салона, так что для 550, 700, 900 и 1000.

Is it possible to make a more rounded (smooth) shape of the porthole?

[Stefan Hoffmann 3987]

vor 1 minute, mrPhakel sagte:

Is it possible to make a more rounded (smooth) shape of the porthole?

No.

[Stefan Hoffmann 3987]

vor 8 Minuten, pepperoni505 sagte:

There are many places to find 8K liveries - one that I prefer is https://flightsim.to/c/liveries/a320neo/. There are even 16K liveries, which don't seem to have that much of a performance hit

Depends on how good this will run on a really complex aircraft/scenery setup. The recommend max dev resolution by Asobo is even 2K only, the details are to be delivered by a special second layer, called "the decal technique". The reason repainters blow up the A320Neo texture is, that the whole fuselage is fitted to a 2K map and ALL the rest is generated by DECALs. So without any 3d software repainters arent able at all to deliver detailed decors to the aircraft and their only chance is to blow up at least the Albedo map for the color information. Thats a way we wont go, as memory demands rise quadratically while doubling the pixel amount at the sides.

[Mathijs Kok 38901]

9 minutes ago, Stefan Hoffmann said:

Where do you have 8K liveries?

 

Friends, 1K, 2K, 4K or even 8K liveries mean ABSOLUTELY nothing in MFS. A 1K livery with good decals will look many times better than a P3D 8K livery.  Forget about these totally outdated measures. MFS is far more clever than that. 

 

But if you want to know why.... consider a fully white 747.  A 8K texture set would mean you need around 40 textures to cover the whole aircraft. And a small sign (text) would look like crap. Doing this in MFS you would use a 512Kb texture (white is white) and add decalls for the details. You can then add text that is 2 mm high and it will be fully sharp.

[Mathijs Kok 38901]

11 minutes ago, pepperoni505 said:

There are many places to find 8K liveries - one that I prefer is https://flightsim.to/c/liveries/a320neo/. There are even 16K liveries, which don't seem to have that much of a performance hit

 

And anybody who makes those for MFS simply does not understand the new technology. You can achieve FAR better sharpness, with many times les memory use and way (wayyyyyyy) better performance using decals instead of putting it all in the base textures.

 

Saying that 16K textures have no influence on performance must have a very special graphics card. From the default 2K (that is close to overkill) to 16K means you are just using memory and slowing framerates. It's stupid. Stupid stupid stupid. It's old tech.

[Mathijs Kok 38901]

6 minutes ago, pepperoni505 said:

Livery creators would have to include a modified model for all LODs - adding a lot to the size of the livery. On top of that, because you need to add a 3D object to the decal, that would mean your performance would take a hit depending on how complex the livery is. In the grand scheme of things, an 8K livery is much simpler than editing the model. 

 

On a side note, will we be able to edit the CRJ model? If not, your point about decals isn't valid

 

Pepperoni, I am cutting this discussion.  We have good ideas on this and we'll share them. But 8K textures are NOT part of that because nobody has a graphics card that can handle them. 

 

We are NOT using FSX and P3D technology and if people want to remove the decals and replace them by 8k textures that can NEVER be as good (not even close, this is not a C172), they can share them. But not on our forums. 

 

1K=  1,048,576 pixels

4K= 16,777,216 pixels

8K= 67.108,864 pixels

16K= 256,000,000 pixels

 

Now show me ANY card that can handle eve one single 16K texture. Just one. Not even counting what is needed on scenery etc. What people do not know is that the sim all recalculates it down to what it can handle. It just makes things slow. 

 

[DGH 22]

@Mathijs Kok

 

Question 

 

how will the ever lasting MSFS “patch soap” turn out for these kind of payware add-ons ?

 

i mean with each and every patch something is happening to flight dynamics for example. How will Aerosoft deal with that ?

 

i mean will you make a hot-fix ... when you know a month later that hotfix is not needed anymore for example ( happening now with flap issues in freeware aircraft ) 

[Mathijs Kok 38901]

3 minutes ago, DGH said:

@Mathijs Kok

 

Question 

 

how will the ever lasting MSFS “patch soap” turn out for these kind of payware add-ons ? i mean with each and every patch something is happening to flight dynamics for example. How will Aerosoft deal with that ?

 

Why do you think the dev team is talking to Asobo every single day?

[BritishAvgeek 79]

Also I'd like to add I really like the walk around video! It's not something any of us would bother with in the sim of course but it's a great showcase of the detail involved here!

 

Looks amazing, sounds amazing. Can't wait for Monday!

[Mathijs Kok 38901]

Friends I am shutting down the discussion on the issues regarding repaint and how complex they are. We have spend a serious amount of time on it and we believe we have a good middle ground. But there is too much misinformation and misguidance here. If you want that discussion, there are many other forums.

 

This a 8K texture shown in the optimal resolution in the sim:

That is the best possible resolution.  This 8K texture takes 192 MB in graphics memory. You need many to cover an aircraft.

 

Now this is how a decal in the best possible resolution will show, the decal size is minimal 12MB.

EVERY single character is sharp and readable.  And it will be faster, more memory efficient and look way better. It is FSX versus MFS technology. 

 

 

 

[simon747 93]

15 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

Friends I am shutting down the discussion on the issues regarding repaint and how complex they are. We have spend a serious amount of time on it and we believe we have a good middle ground. But there is too much misinformation and misguidance here. If you want that discussion, there are many other forums.

Agreed... the external textures and the vc look spectacular.

[EightBitGoose 84]

Anyways... what's everybody's favorite approach in flight-sim? For me it's runway 32 in to Tivat, Montenegro.

[WinterHuntsman 37]

2 minutes ago, EightBitGoose said:

Anyways... what's everybody's favorite approach in flight-sim? For me it's runway 32 in to Tivat, Montenegro.

I may be a bit biased because it’s my home airport, but 27R at KORD. Going to be flying in on that approach a lot in the near future.

[Mathijs Kok 38901]

28 minutes ago, pepperoni505 said:

Until people are able to edit the aircraft model, it's not possible for default aircraft

 

No, but this is not a default aircraft, right? 

Sorry but you are simply not understanding the mechanics. 

[Mathijs Kok 38901]

1 minute ago, KeanuLeaves said:

So why does the door look like shit lmao

 

Because you got to use your pixels where you want them most. If you feel the side of the door is more important than a part of the cockpit I beg your pardon and hope you find an add-on that does what you want.

[Xanys Lecix 25]

And he just got banned, thanks @Mathijs Kok 

[lowpolybutt 66]

Man I've never seen people get so worked up over a door lmao. Anyway as mathijs has said, there are other places to comment on the pixel count of a door texture. 

 

My question is, I was wondering if maybe after the launch of the -900/-1000 models if there were plans for some kind of "post mortem" as it were, what went well, what went not so well with the project etc

[EasternT3 250]

9 minutes ago, EightBitGoose said:

Anyways... what's everybody's favorite approach in flight-sim? For me it's runway 32 in to Tivat, Montenegro.

Not a hard approach but definitely runway 10 at TNCM, can’t wait for flytampa to bring it to MSFS

[Valastiri 2]

11 minutes ago, EightBitGoose said:

Anyways... what's everybody's favorite approach in flight-sim? For me it's runway 32 in to Tivat, Montenegro.

 

Circle to land's at LOWI, always a fun time!

[Xanys Lecix 25]

Just now, lowpolybutt said:

Man I've never seen people get so worked up over a door lmao. Anyway as mathijs has said, there are other places to comment on the pixel count of a door texture. 

 

My question is, I was wondering if maybe after the launch of the -900/-1000 models if there were plans for some kind of "post mortem" as it were, what went well, what went not so well with the project etc

For me overall the door looks okay, but I would improve the texture of it a bit because just from a relativately far you can see it already blurry wich is a bit meh, but if it's not possible I won't die for few pixels.