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A321 Pro TRIM


Raemichel

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Hello,
I updated the A321 Pro P3Dv4.
Following a flight, I noticed the following:
1. Performance page, after having introduced the flaps for takeoff, I note that the information "TRIM" is abnormal; for my example flaps "2" = 2/DN2.9", in other words trim downwards for an exaggerated angle. Having given the checklists to the crew, this trim error prevented the "to config" check, which was red with an audible alarm. 
I noticed this several times already. After checking on the trim wheel, by default they appear to me at zero. So there is no interaction between the value "performance page" and the actual trim positioning. It's up to the pilot to make sure that the trim is as you want it to be. However, on take-off, at the very least the trim should be "UP" and not "DN". This seems abnormal to me. I am not the only one to have noticed this. 
2. In flight at my cruising altitude during a four-pilot multi-player flight, my plane suddenly shut down without any warning signs, without knowing if it was a fuel or electrical failure. I would like to point out that out of the four pilots in flight, all at their cruising altitude, three of us pilots experienced this abnormal fuel failure which, in our opinion, is not a lack of fuel that was properly planned. 
3. I went back into session, re-commissioned the A321, and during my flight planning work and my preparation according to the acronym "DIFRIP", suddenly I found myself once again with the machine completely shut down. 
  
It seems so unbelievable to me. Should the A321 be reinstalled? Is this unrealistic behavior due to a bug? I'm asking you. 
  
Best Regards
  
Michel Raemy

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Michel, which version exactly do you have installed. Run the ASUpdater and post a screenshot like this (in your case highlight the A32x):

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Hello,
I make the following decision:
I am properly uninstalling the A318/319 and 320/321 in accordance with the guidelines and reinstalling them in the proper order and will redo the item.
Patience!

Best Regards
Michel

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Hello,

I reinstalled in order the A318/320 then A320/321, reinstalled my textures, the AIRACs and processed the configuration.

I recreated a starting situation and you can see on the "PERF" page that with a flap 2 position, I get a Trim "DN.2.9!

So the re-installation did not solve my TRIM problem.

Since I don't have time to fly now, I don't know if the total shutdown failure will happen again.

       That's it for now

       Best Regards

       Michel

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think the built in Copilot is terrific when used as it is designed, which is a tool to help a new Airbus pilot become familiar with the normal operations procedures. 

 

Since I'm already familiar with the Airbus and it's systems and procedures, I will never use the Copilot function, and I urge everyone NOT to use the Copilot function beyond a few flights.  Using the Copilot beyond the first few flights only serves to hurt the pilot and their increasing their knowledge and experience levels. 

 

Since I don't use the Copilot, I can't and won't address anything regarding it's operation.  For that you need to speak with the Copilot and Checklist developer, Hanse, who I have made aware of this thread and I'm sure he'll pop in here as soon as he is able.

 

Regarding the settings of Trim in the Fuel Planner, the Trim value is NOT calculated or set by the fuel planner, it is something which needs to be selected.  The available trim ranges will vary based on the aircraft loadout, and to understand this all you need to do is have a basic understanding of aircraft weight and balance.  Just as you can set the takeoff trim in the Fuel Planner, you can also set it in the MCDU.  The only limitation is that the trim has to be in the green band on the trim wheel... this is unique to the Airbus.

 

Again, the Fuel Planner does not calculate your Takeoff Trim, this is something that you will set.  This is different than most Loadout Managers which exist in the flight sim world, ours is just more versatile allowing you to set the Takeoff Trim.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

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20 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

I think the built in Copilot is terrific when used as it is designed, which is a tool to help a new Airbus pilot become familiar with the normal operations procedures. 

 

Since I'm already familiar with the Airbus and it's systems and procedures, I will never use the Copilot function, and I urge everyone NOT to use the Copilot function beyond a few flights.  Using the Copilot beyond the first few flights only serves to hurt the pilot and their increasing their knowledge and experience levels. 

 

Since I don't use the Copilot, I can't and won't address anything regarding it's operation.  For that you need to speak with the Copilot and Checklist developer, Hanse, who I have made aware of this thread and I'm sure he'll pop in here as soon as he is able.

 

Regarding the settings of Trim in the Fuel Planner, the Trim value is NOT calculated or set by the fuel planner, it is something which needs to be selected.  The available trim ranges will vary based on the aircraft loadout, and to understand this all you need to do is have a basic understanding of aircraft weight and balance.  Just as you can set the takeoff trim in the Fuel Planner, you can also set it in the MCDU.  The only limitation is that the trim has to be in the green band on the trim wheel... this is unique to the Airbus.

 

Again, the Fuel Planner does not calculate your Takeoff Trim, this is something that you will set.  This is different than most Loadout Managers which exist in the flight sim world, ours is just more versatile allowing you to set the Takeoff Trim.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

I have the same issue as the OP, and your answer doesn't address the problem, which is that the fuel planner - no matter what the parameters are - calculates the wrong trim settings. If you let the copilot then set the trim, it leads to the takeoff warning as seen in the above screenshot. I didn't observe this problem with the previous build. 

 

I fail to understand your statement that one shouldn't use the copilot function beyond a few flights. Then why did you include it? Last I checked the Airbusses aren't certified for single pilot operation, hence a copilot shares the work load. 

 

Furthermore, you say: " the Fuel Planner does not calculate your Takeoff Trim, this is something that you will set.  This is different than most Loadout Managers which exist in the flight sim world, ours is just more versatile allowing you to set the Takeoff Trim." 

I must be missing something here. When I use the fuel planner, it gives me a value for the take off trim. I or the copilot then set this value in the aircraft. Previously, this worked without a hitch, now it doesn't.

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

If I understand you correct, you get the TO Config alarm with -2.9 in the A321?

If yes that’s indeed a bug. Up to -3.5 should be possible.
 

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And for takeoff it is not necessary to have a UP trim. The trim is just for balancing all to neutral. The upper TO trim ranges are from QRH and match the green band .

 

The TO trim has to be set manually by the pilot via trim wheel in the A32S.

The A330 does it automatically one time after all 3 HYD systems are powered.

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Hi 

 

I have been flying the A320 and A321 lately and I am getting figures like -2.2 for the A320 and -2.9 for the A321. With a DN trim of 2.9, when the throttles are advanced to Flex the warning trim out of takeoff range is annunciated. The trim has to be re-adjusted to be back in the range. This is a problem caused by the fuel planner. Also I don't use the co-pilot function.

 

Regards

Craig

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1 hour ago, craigy said:

Hi 

 

I have been flying the A320 and A321 lately and I am getting figures like -2.2 for the A320 and -2.9 for the A321. With a DN trim of 2.9, when the throttles are advanced to Flex the warning trim out of takeoff range is annunciated. The trim has to be re-adjusted to be back in the range. This is a problem caused by the fuel planner. Also I don't use the co-pilot function.

 

Regards

Craig

 

Yes, same problem here. 

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

No it’s not a problem of the fuelplaner.

There is a bug in the trigger for the config memo. It’s already in the bug tracking list with higher prio.

 

The calculated values by the fuelplaner is a secondary problem. I‘m currently working on that. Will take some time.

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

There will be some preliminary changes to prevent trim values outside the green band on the next update. We are looking to make further improvements on the fuel planner values as well like Masterhawk said.

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  • 5 months later...

I have the same problem!! However in the fuel planner when those values are generated I have noticed that if I click the RESET button it generates a different trim value within the green band.

 

 

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
On 9/4/2020 at 3:54 PM, jafo_326 said:

I have the same problem!! However in the fuel planner when those values are generated I have noticed that if I click the RESET button it generates a different trim value within the green band.

 

 

Please decribe your problem with more detail. The fuelplaner TRIM logic and the ECAM Warning logic was reworked some time ago. Be sure to use the latest version.

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