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Delay response pitch up when take off,airbus 330


natoseigh

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Hello,am wondering if someone can help or if this is an airbus thing,i have the a330 and for some reason when i take off and i reachg the vr ,for some reason when i pull my yoke to pitch up i dont get an immediate response of the plane pitching up,someone it goes beyond the vr and even v2 speeds before i get lift off,and i have the correct trim set base on the configurator,so am wondering if theres something i need to do

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3 hours ago, natoseigh said:

Hello,am wondering if someone can help or if this is an airbus thing,i have the a330 and for some reason when i take off and i reachg the vr ,for some reason when i pull my yoke to pitch up i dont get an immediate response of the plane pitching up,someone it goes beyond the vr and even v2 speeds before i get lift off,and i have the correct trim set base on the configurator,so am wondering if theres something i need to do

 

1. Which version of the A330 are you on?

2. What are the PAX, Cargo and Fuel Figures for your flight?

3. Are you going a TOGA or Flex Takeoff, and what are the VSpeeds calculated by the FMGS (in the MCDU)?

4. Did you enter or update the winds in the MCDU prior to takeoff?

5. Did you have a Headwind, Tailwind, or Cross wind during takeoff and what was it?

 

All these factor into the takeoff experience.  Also, I've never flown the Airbus, but any of the large aircraft I've flown always have a delay between pulling back on the flight controls and rotation. 

 

Work on those answers and I'll speak to some of our Airbus Pilots about this.

 

 

 

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1.version 1.0.0.4

2.the pax numbers changes i dont have a specific number to give but its never a max passengers and fuel figures also the same dont have a number on top of my head for that but everything is within the fuel planner where i dont exceed either the take off weight or the zero fuel weight

3.its mostly a flex temp which is calculate by the mcdu,and sometimes also its TOGA

4.Yes i always have the wind data even before i do my take off calculation speeds

5.and with this also dont have a specific answer it varies,i have taken off in both crosswind,headwind or tailwind and almost always,encounters an issue where the lift off doesnt occur within the VR speeds but almost always a delay pitch sometimes even above the v2 speeds

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I think there is some confusion between a couple things. A sort of "input lag" and actual rate of pitch.
Sure in a conventional cable pulley flight control system airplane, a larger aircraft might have a slower rate of pitch for the same control deflection. However aircraft designers can augment this in different ways with larger tail surfaces, control surface deflections, etc. If they weren't able to do so, you could imagine a 747 that has manual and hydraulic controls would be nearly impossible to control compared to maybe a 737-700. The difference in aircraft size is so great that with that argument you'd expect a 747 to be uncontrollable in comparison. However in the real world if you compare, they are both able to attain similar 2-3 deg per second of pitch on rotation with little delay and with a relatively similar yoke movement.
Even with conventional controls that design is indeed possible. With FBW the possibilities are endless. As you say yourself, the A320 family flies similar because of the FBW. An A318 and an A321 tend to feel the same no? Well as far as I know that isn't actually 100% the case but I think that goes beyond the scope of the simulation.

 

Now what I think this user is talking about is not the rate at which the airplane can change pitch, but the response from the controls. If he makes a control deflection, there is a gap in time until the aircraft actually responds to the movement. The rate at which the airplane actually pitches up could be as fast or slow as you like. However if you go full aft on the stick at VR and the nose doesn't lift until beyond V2, that could be a problem. Now I wonder how this would look from an external view. Is it a case of the elevator itself responding slowly, or does it go full up and then there is some delay until the aircraft actually pitches?

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Hello natoseigh,

Are you by any chance loading the aircraft through GSX? If so, does the Center of Gravity value on Lower ECAM match with the one on the Fuel Planner after engine start? There is currently an issue where loading through GSX can mess up the Center of Gravity completely that we are investigating and I have seen few users have this effect you have described due to this.

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On 12/25/2019 at 1:20 PM, natoseigh said:

Hello,am wondering if someone can help or if this is an airbus thing,i have the a330 and for some reason when i take off and i reachg the vr ,for some reason when i pull my yoke to pitch up i dont get an immediate response of the plane pitching up,someone it goes beyond the vr and even v2 speeds before i get lift off,and i have the correct trim set base on the configurator,so am wondering if theres something i need to do

 

Well, newtons law of inertia states that a 200+ tons A330 going in a straight line wants really badly to keep going in a straight line unless a force acts upon it. :P

 

Joking a side I have noticed it's a bit slow to rotate, but it's a big bird as to be expected I say. 

 

This A320 pilot praises the A330 handling, except for a small twitch during takeoff when ground law is transitioning to normal law or something like that. I only noticed it myself after he pointed it out.

 

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8 hours ago, Secondator said:

Hello natoseigh,

Are you by any chance loading the aircraft through GSX? If so, does the Center of Gravity value on Lower ECAM match with the one on the Fuel Planner after engine start? There is currently an issue where loading through GSX can mess up the Center of Gravity completely that we are investigating and I have seen few users have this effect you have described due to this.

Hello

So what i do each time is plan everything with the fuel and zfw through the fuel planner and then i load into the sim and then i click on generate so that it imports it from the fuel planner into the sim,and to be honest i havent always paid attention whether the CG on the ecam matches it,what i know is sometimes,it shows a red color and sometimes green,and also i try to always center the values in the fuel planner,what i pay most attention to,is whether the zfw and fuel all matches what was on the fuel planner

23 hours ago, Pineapple_Wizard said:

I think there is some confusion between a couple things. A sort of "input lag" and actual rate of pitch.
Sure in a conventional cable pulley flight control system airplane, a larger aircraft might have a slower rate of pitch for the same control deflection. However aircraft designers can augment this in different ways with larger tail surfaces, control surface deflections, etc. If they weren't able to do so, you could imagine a 747 that has manual and hydraulic controls would be nearly impossible to control compared to maybe a 737-700. The difference in aircraft size is so great that with that argument you'd expect a 747 to be uncontrollable in comparison. However in the real world if you compare, they are both able to attain similar 2-3 deg per second of pitch on rotation with little delay and with a relatively similar yoke movement.
Even with conventional controls that design is indeed possible. With FBW the possibilities are endless. As you say yourself, the A320 family flies similar because of the FBW. An A318 and an A321 tend to feel the same no? Well as far as I know that isn't actually 100% the case but I think that goes beyond the scope of the simulation.

 

Now what I think this user is talking about is not the rate at which the airplane can change pitch, but the response from the controls. If he makes a control deflection, there is a gap in time until the aircraft actually responds to the movement. The rate at which the airplane actually pitches up could be as fast or slow as you like. However if you go full aft on the stick at VR and the nose doesn't lift until beyond V2, that could be a problem. Now I wonder how this would look from an external view. Is it a case of the elevator itself responding slowly, or does it go full up and then there is some delay until the aircraft actually pitches?

Hello

exactly my issue mate

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

This sounds like it's indeed related to the CG of the aircraft being different than on the fuel planner or 3rd MCDU after GSX loading and therefore the trim being set to wrong value (correct as per the 3rd MCDU value but incorrect for the actual CG of the aircraft). We'll have a look what we can do.

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8 hours ago, Secondator said:

This sounds like it's indeed related to the CG of the aircraft being different than on the fuel planner or 3rd MCDU after GSX loading and therefore the trim being set to wrong value (correct as per the 3rd MCDU value but incorrect for the actual CG of the aircraft). We'll have a look what we can do.

Thank you,i had the same problem couple of hours ago,was doing a flight from EIDW-KSFO and through the fuel planner my CG was 27.8 but when i started boarding and everything it has dropped to .011 in red and was confused as to why

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