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A330 Doesn't like Bad Weather


Baran Beki
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1 hour ago, benjoglove said:

Dave, I am very confused about your answer to this issue. Can you please explain to me how PMDG/QW787 and other aircraft can fly this weather without an issue using AS and shaders etc however the aerosoft plane cant? I'm not alone in this issue it appears (after asking on facebook in flight sim groups). How can aerosoft blame a third party app for a plane "misbehaving"? Reducing parameters is not the solution to this issue as they run perfectly fine for every other aircraft on my hard drive. I have already proven that it is not weather texture or shader induced so that debunks that theory. What you are advising is to reduce my settings on my pc which as above there isnt a need for other aircrafts. It is not a fps issue.

 

I would have to agree with you, I own other aircraft and never faced any issues slowing down for an approval. IT seems that  autothrottle is linked to wind speed shades .... but it is too aggressive. When ever you see an UP arrow or DOWN arrow extend on your speed it means autothrottles will react but once again they are too aggressive. Ben, only suggestions are I give you is if you are on a very turbulent approach and you need to slow down ...... disconnect the auto throttles and pull the engines back to idle and engage max speedbrakes, as soon as you're 10 or so kts close to your approach speed, re-engage the AT. Any other way you will keep over shooting and plan will never slow down. I was on turbulent approach and was asked by controller to maintain 190kts will 5nm out .... I set the approach speed (135kts) 5nm out and by the time I was at minimums my speed was hovering @ 180, did two go arounds and only managed to get to my approach speed by using above method. Not sure why AS330 auto-thrust is so aggressive.

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1 hour ago, skwal said:

 

I would have to agree with you, I own other aircraft and never faced any issues slowing down for an approval. IT seems that  autothrottle is linked to wind speed shades .... but it is too aggressive. When ever you see an UP arrow or DOWN arrow extend on your speed it means autothrottles will react but once again they are too aggressive. Ben, only suggestions are I give you is if you are on a very turbulent approach and you need to slow down ...... disconnect the auto throttles and pull the engines back to idle and engage max speedbrakes, as soon as you're 10 or so kts close to your approach speed, re-engage the AT. Any other way you will keep over shooting and plan will never slow down. I was on turbulent approach and was asked by controller to maintain 190kts will 5nm out .... I set the approach speed (135kts) 5nm out and by the time I was at minimums my speed was hovering @ 180, did two go arounds and only managed to get to my approach speed by using above method. Not sure why AS330 auto-thrust is so aggressive.

Thanks skwal. Theirs something wrong with the bus not the PC's I'm 100% certain of that. Been flying online for some time with all sorts of aircrafts but this one is definitely weird in how it handles in bad weather especially the speed. I'm sure its not how it handles in real life and in no way is it connected to PC specs or how the PC handles. Good weather it's a dream to fly. If it was spec related even in good weather it would show some issues.

1 hour ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

Well, I'm truly sorry if I confused you, but this is the first time you mentioned the other aircraft, so all I could do was advise you based on the information you provided.  Let's now try to unconfuse you my friend.


First, since I have no idea of your computer and flight sim knowledge, I'll explain this as if you're new to the hobby.  Since I don't know you, you don't know me, and if you're going to take advice from ANYONE in this hobby you should first know their what their true experience is.  I've just seen too many well meaning, but drastically inexperienced people provide advice to others and the miscommunicationa and damage that does.  So with that in mind, I've been in the flight sim community (not just having flight sim software on my computer, but in the community) just a few years shy of 4 decades and I've worked with many of the leading developers including HiFi (who makes ActiveSky) and REX and I know how their software works. Other developers I've worked with includes Majestic and Leonardo, but the list is preety darned long and given those guys are the very best in the business, we'll just end the list there.  So it's up to you if you'd like to work with me or not, and I won't be hurt whatsoever if you don't want to.

 

Now, your processor (CPU) does most of the work for P3D, and it still plays a big roll in processing graphics. This is just the way all ESP based sims are.  So your processor cores are processing the vast majority of what takes place in your sim experience, and the amount of that processing is more intensive than any other game in personal computing. That's not an off the cuff statement. When you add payware airliners, scenery and weather data/textures to the sim, they merely increase what is already a pretty heavy load on the CPU.  I believe that every single person who fires up FSX or P3D should at the same time run Process Explorer so they can have an idea of what is going on behind the scenes.. I'm a former computer hardware engineer (large US Department of Defense mainframes to PCs and everything in betweeen) and I have to tell you that it impresses the heck out of me.  But there are also a LOT of things going on that Process explorer won't should you, including all the internal (loopback) networking that is going on. You can see some of this by using another freeware tool called TCPView.

 

So, under optimal conditions,  your system, which is to say ANY system is going to be working very hard when you use P3D, especially with heavy hitting payware airliners, scenery, weather data/textures, and so on.  If you increase your P3D settings, your system is going to be working A LOT harder than it already is.  If you have your system process high resolution textures (all textures) then it's really going to get interesting.  Now let's assume that you're flying and everything is going smoothly until you enter a really significant weather system. At this point your ActiveSky settings are going to factor in to how much more workload your system will be under, and we've known that such weather can hammer systems and affect aircraft since the FS2004 (FS9) days, and it only got worse with FSX and then with P3D.

 

If you're flying a general aviation aircraft, the processor work load is going to be far, FAR less than if you're flying an airliner. The larger and more complex the airliner is, the heavier the workload is going to be.  The settings that ActiveSky provides when you install it are fine for GA and most Airliner flights, but you start increasing P3D settings or adding larger and more complex payware then things may be okay until you enter an area of bad weather and... you guessed, more processor demand, and that can cause P3D and other software to stop while whatever the amount of that data is processed.  I haven't even mentioned what other software outside of P3D might do.  If you're streaming or just watching video on your computer while flying then you are asking a whole lot from your processor. Enter a heavy weather system while doing that... you guessed it, too much data for your CPU to process all at the same time.  Again something has to give.

 

Just think of it like this. You have a finite amount of processing capability. If you exceed that even for a millisecond you're going to notice that in ESP based sims and how much you notice this is going to depend on how much data the processor is asked to process and that in turn is going to be based on  your various settings and texture sizes.

 

Now there are things which one can do to mitigate issues by tuning our systems.

 

- Setting up Processor Affinity, which depending on the system can make all the difference.

 

- Running with or without Hyper Threading (or the AMD equivalent, depending on the processor), and this depends greatly on what software is running in concert with the sim however usually it's best to disable Hyper Threading in ESP based sims.

 

-  CPU Turbo Mode.  Looking at this from a joint flight sim and computer engineering perspective, Turbo Mode is bad for flight sim.  The reason is the data processing requirements change constantly, and this means the processor turbo mode ramping up and down while still processing data and that process can inject further processor lag and that's bad.  Several years ago I took a couple of months to experiment with this, and today I run with Turbo Mode turned off in my BIOS and instead I locked my 4 cores at 4.5GHz.  It made all the difference.

 

- Reduce  your processor workload by reducing settings and texture sizes. We did this a lot more back with FSX for memory reasons because it was 32 bit software (thus we were limited to 3.6GB of RAM) but we also noticed that our sims ran a lot more smoothly as well... and of course we know why.

 

With every system once had to find the best settings for the type of flying one is going to do.

 

 

Now, there are several more pieces to the puzzle. 

 

A. For some reason the original Airbus developer had the FMGS tied to the sim's frame rate.  Now to be fair, this means that on systems set up (tuned) to perform correctly for the type of flight sim software and condiitons one is flying in, the aircraft will actually perform better than one that is not coded this way.  Now, coding an aircraft this way is NOT what I recommend and I don't like that it's coded that way.  But facts are facts, and that's all I'll ever provide to you guys, so when I tell you that on a correctly setup system it should run better, that's the truth. The problem is that very few people in flight sim have their systems setup properly and many simple ask too much from their hardware. 

 

B. Show me 1000 home computers in the flight sim world and I'll show you 99 home computers which are not running the correct or latest drivers for their motherboard and/or graphics card.  Always, always, ALWAYS keep your drivers up to date, especially motherboard drivers.

 

C. Not all hardware is created equal, and there are be significant variances between the same IC chips which reside on your motherboard, graphics card, or any electronics.  Ever hear of the "processor lottery"?  the same is true for all chips no matter where they are, and this includes military hardware. Many such errors only show themselves

 

D. Heat.  We already discussed that relatively speaking flight sim software will punish our hardware, and the harder out hardware works the more heat it's going to generate.  The more heat, the more unstable things get and instead of getting too complicated let's just say that bits start to get dropped. That happens and either an error is generated or the data is requested again for processing further adding the already massive processor workload and the system runs hotter and hotter.  It's actually somewhat similar to a transistor going into avalanche - neat, but bad stuff.

 

So if I could pack all the above up into one single sentence, I'd say that  you always have to take a systemic approach to setting up flight sim, and avoiding high settings (to reduce processor load) when running complex addons is the rule of the day.

 

Now let's get personal.  In order to determine what the issue was that you had, we need a lot more information.  If  you don't mind, please do the following:

 

1. You will have to let us know how many times this occurred for you (sounds like once from what you said).  Even I have the occasional flight that goes sideways, no matter which aircraft I use.  Doesn't happen that often, but it does happen.  Unless something is repeatable on my system I tend to view it as it doesn't exist.

 

2. We'll need a more detailed description of what you experienced and what went wrong.  Though we are not done adjusting the flight model, the A330 is a bit of a slippery aircraft in real life and so is the Airbus.  Reducing speed in an aircraft inherently designed to be as aerodynamic as possible will always take a little longer, but try to do that in a clean configuration especially in a downdraft (and ActiveSky is really harsh on turbulence, updrafts and downdrafts) is always going to be problematic just as it can be in the real aircraft.   Anyway, you may know what you experienced, but you have to convey that in a means that we understand it.

 

3. Provide your complete systems specifications.

 

4. Please let us know all the addons you have installed other than aircraft and airport scenery.

 

5. Provide Screen Shots of your P3D Display, World and Lighting settings as they were when you experienced the issue.

 

6. Provide your ActiveSky settings CFG file that was in use when you had the incident.

 

7. Provide the complete flight plan, altitude, and the location of the aircraft and Zulu time of the incident in question.  You'll need this when you use historical weather via ActiveSky to try the same flight with a different aircraft, and I'll do it too.

 

8. If you were within 18nm of an airport when the incident happened then we'll need to know what the airport scenery was.

 

 

Looking forward to hearing back from you!

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

Thanks let me do some more flights and see what I can come up with.

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Friends,

 

Last night and again this morning I spent considerable time testing the A330 in some weather so bad the real world aircraft would have avoided it.

 

First, let me say that I am absolutely not happy with our existing flight model, and neither are the developers, and this includes some drag issues (which by the way I've been complaining about internally for a number of months).  We plan to tighten up our flight dynamics after we're completely some higher priority things.

 

Even though our flight model needs some tightening up, I did not have issues slowing down the A330 in some incredibly bad weather manually injected from ActiveSky.  The weather I injected was so bad that it overwhelmed the buffer for our Weather Radar, so even though after a while the WXR stopped showing the precipitation, it was clearly visible out the aircraft windscreen.  I also injected severe turbulence, and I tested the aircraft's ability to slow down both with a 45 knot tail wind and head wind at 7000ft.  Together with injecting constant precip, thunderstorms and severe turbulence, I didn't have any major issues slowing down the aircraft.

 

I'm not asking you to trust me on this.   I recorded a lot of video for you to see on my Twitch channel.  At times the turbulence was so severe that the aircraft even when into TOGA Lock!  Please, don't critique the video as it wasn't normal flying but specific condition testing.

 

Again, you'll get no argument from me that we need to improve a lot of things about the aircraft including the flight dynamics and airframe and induced drag, but overall I just didn't experience the type of issues that you guys are reporting.  But I will certainly keep an eye on this!

 

By the way, here is a frame rate graph that shows clear weather verse the incredibly severe weather I injected into the sim:

 

Screenshot - 1_2_2020 , 9_22_03 AM.png

 

Here are some screen shots of what ActiveSky was injecting:

 

Screenshot - 1_2_2020 , 8_58_16 AM.png

 

 

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3 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Friends,

 

Last night and again this morning I spent considerable time testing the A330 in some weather so bad the real world aircraft would have avoided it.

 

First, let me say that I am absolutely not happy with our existing flight model, and neither are the developers, and this includes some drag issues (which by the way I've been complaining about internally for a number of months).  We plan to tighten up our flight dynamics after we're completely some higher priority things.

 

Even though our flight model needs some tightening up, I did not have issues slowing down the A330 in some incredibly bad weather manually injected from ActiveSky.  The weather I injected was so bad that it overwhelmed the buffer for our Weather Radar, so even though after a while the WXR stopped showing the precipitation, it was clearly visible out the aircraft windscreen.  I also injected severe turbulence, and I tested the aircraft's ability to slow down both with a 45 knot tail wind and head wind at 7000ft.  Together with injecting constant precip, thunderstorms and severe turbulence, I didn't have any major issues slowing down the aircraft.

 

I'm not asking you to trust me on this.   I recorded a lot of video for you to see on my Twitch channel.  At times the turbulence was so severe that the aircraft even when into TOGA Lock!  Please, don't critique the video as it wasn't normal flying but specific condition testing.

 

Again, you'll get no argument from me that we need to improve a lot of things about the aircraft including the flight dynamics and airframe and induced drag, but overall I just didn't experience the type of issues that you guys are reporting.  But I will certainly keep an eye on this!

 

By the way, here is a frame rate graph that shows clear weather verse the incredibly severe weather I injected into the sim:

 

Screenshot - 1_2_2020 , 9_22_03 AM.png

 

Here are some screen shots of what ActiveSky was injecting:

 

Screenshot - 1_2_2020 , 8_58_16 AM.png

 

 

Thanks Dave, appreciate the follow up. I will have a look at the video for sure and see what you did to improve the speed reduction. Great to see the follow up, Cheers.

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2 hours ago, benjoglove said:

Thanks Dave, appreciate the follow up. I will have a look at the video for sure and see what you did to improve the speed reduction. Great to see the follow up, Cheers.

 

My pleasure, and nice working with you on this.  I'm looking forward to hearing back from you as well!

 

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