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Mathijs Kok

Twin Otter professional, request for information

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Depends a bit on the loading but you got to be damned careful while doing that in the real aircraft. Even looking at the brakes will cause a tail strike.

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My top requests

GTN integration
Hideable or moveable yoke
Clearer window option
List of LVARs

Updates via updater definitely a plus

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22 hours ago, mopperle said:

Any thoughts about the 400 Series or is it out of scope?

A Version with Glass Cockpit would also be my favorite. With G950 for example

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2 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

Depends a bit on the loading but you got to be damned careful while doing that in the real aircraft. Even looking at the brakes will cause a tail strike.

I was going to say the same thing. That's a risk with ANY aircraft and why some operators prohibit it even when it's an approved procedure by the aircraft manufacturer. That and the shower of dirt, rocks and sand that get thrown at anyone and anything unfortunate enough to be in front of the aircraft while it's reversing.

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I have read a few comments regarding engine/prop behaviour to be (more) realistic.

 

Note that when the Twin Otter Extended was released, it actually was on of the first with realistic engine behaviou,r and also with a comprehensive range of possible failures.

 

I agree that it isn´t at the same level as the Majestic Dash 8 Q400, and also have some issues, especially during taxi.

But in the air, the engines and props behaves very close to the real turboprop engine used in the Twin Otter, and is a great step beyond default FSX/P3D behaviour.

The scope (and price) for the Twin Otter Extended was not to reach Majestic Dash-8 Q400 level.

 

I´m not sure yet what will be done to the Twin Otter professional on these matters, but I´m sure that even the current code has some room for improvements.

It might also be necessary to put in some more advanced coding into the engine/prop management.

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vor 4 Minuten, Finn sagte:

I have read a few comments regarding engine/prop behaviour to be (more) realistic.

 

Note that when the Twin Otter Extended was released, it actually was on of the first with realistic engine behaviou,r and also with a comprehensive range of possible failures.

 

I agree that it isn´t at the same level as the Majestic Dash 8 Q400, and also have some issues, especially during taxi.

But in the air, the engines and props behaves very close to the real turboprop engine used in the Twin Otter, and is a great step beyond default FSX/P3D behaviour.

The scope (and price) for the Twin Otter Extended was not to reach Majestic Dash-8 Q400 level.

 

I´m not sure yet what will be done to the Twin Otter professional on these matters, but I´m sure that even the current code has some room for improvements.

 

Our freeware Basler BT-67 released back in 2012 got a pretty realistic engine behavior, too.

The start-up procedure of the Twin Otter Extended always bothered me as it was way to fast when starting.

 

One big request from my side:
Please don't do big changes to the paintkit.

It took me around one year to create the base painkit I needed to create my 3rd party textures.

 

If you need any help, I've got some contacts over at Kenn Borek Air, they're doing all the maintenance for the Viking Twin Otters.

Think they would be willing to help us out!

 

It makes me happy to see the Twin Otter getting some treatment.

Looking forward to modify my liveries with PBR... this will take months of work!

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Hi,

 

Can you please make this addon at full PMDG level Aircraft quality and please make the VC look amazing in VR.  This is such a fun aircraft, and making it as real as possible will be amazing.  Even if the upgrade is double the cost - I will pay, and I am sure everyone will too.  Go all out on this aircraft - and now the sim is 64bit - no one has to worry about VAS issues anymore.

 

Try to use A2A's rain for VC but even true glass is fine.

 

Model all failures.

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19 minutes ago, Finn said:

I have read a few comments regarding engine/prop behaviour to be (more) realistic.

 

Hello Finn.

 

I am a big fan of the Twin Otter as you know, but my number one continuing disappointment is the lag in engine response on approach, which makes it really hard to fly this into small strips. I appreciate that this may be a consequence of the stock PT-6 model but it's enough to almost make me stop flying the aircraft. I don't know if anything can be done short of re-implementing the whole thing (or licensing the engine from Milviz!) but for an improvement in that alone I would re-purchase the Twin Otter.

 

I have often wondered idly if you could replace the PT-6 engines with piston engines and somehow hide the fact while gaining more believable handling when it counts. Or perhaps this would involve so much scaffolding to fake the rest of the turboprop behaviour that it wouldn't be worth it.

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My short wish-list:

 

- Reduce lag in throttling up or down the engines, even if it is at the expense of some realism in the numbers on the gauges.

- Fix the ground friction, which in P3Dv4 is crippling. (And as I understand it none of the known fixes are effective in v4).

 

For me, anything else is a bonus or is inconsequential (assuming you don't break any existing functionality!)

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It certainly need to be improved in regards to startup behaviour and power response (which also is part of the troubles taxiing the Twin Otter)

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vor 16 Stunden , SeaJunk sagte:
  • Hide the yoke
  • Support GTN 750 (both of them)
  • Easier taxi

 

Exactly my three points!!!

 

Very nice to hear about the chance of redoing the Twin Otter!!

 

The Twin Otter is fun to fly and still looks and sounds good to me. But on the ground it's awful, not just because of the P3D ground friction issue. To me, it would be most important to have a properly simulated beta range. I've already heard this would be very difficult to do because P3D (still??) doesn't know that feature in turbo props at all (??). All turbo props I've ever flown in the sim have used some kind of a compromise to be able to taxi. But in all of them you had to raise the torque (which takes time) to wait again for the prop gov to react and make the aircraft roll by raising up rpm, and that takes so much time that the taxi speed is very difficult to control. Furthermore it sounds unrealistic (despite a good sound!) because rpm raises up a lot, while in reality only the the "sound" of the props changes while accelerating and decelerating the plane, but not the frequency of the rpm tone neither the rpm itself.

 

The only exeption here is the Majestic's Dash 8-Q400. That really got the engine steering right. I know they modeled the flight dynamics completely externally.

 

I don't know what is possible here, but in any case I would pay the full price again for a good engine ground behaviour and Flight1 GTN support. I think hiding the yoke isn't too hard to do in comparison to the other things ;) Apart from that the Aerosoft Twin Otter is still a plane without a real competitor in its range. And no, I won't count in Carenado planes for that.^^

 

Cheers, Dominik

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Hello,

 

If possible :

- Volumetric propellers

- Better transition between Feather mode and full. If needed I can do a video comparison to explain what I mean.

- Realistic Propeller spinning action during Engine start up and shut down (Something close to what Majestic Software offers). Currently it's far too quick and not realistic enough

- Better paintkit (closer to what other developpers have to offer than what is currently presented)

- Customization. For example, the Twin Otters I'm used to can have different seating options or even fans in the Cockpit. Would be nice to have something more that just the same thing.

 

I like this idea of asking what the customers would also like to see improve !

 

Kind Regards,

Brandon

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From an eye candy perspective, I would like to see some serious work on the pilots. For example, animated pilots (having similar movements to those in the Majestic Q400). They need to look look "modern" and without their hand permanently attached to the throttle.

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19 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

And indeed, close to three years now. That's how long it takes these days.

 

I feel like with a completed A320 it would be much easier to go on and create an A330 as they are pretty similar.

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18 hours ago, Daniel Fürnkäß said:

One big request from my side:
Please don't do big changes to the paintkit.

It took me around one year to create the base painkit I needed to create my 3rd party textures.

 

That's the main reason that we plan only modest work on that. 

 

18 hours ago, seafox said:

Hi,

 

Can you please make this addon at full PMDG level Aircraft quality and please make the VC look amazing in VR.  This is such a fun aircraft, and making it as real as possible will be amazing.  Even if the upgrade is double the cost - I will pay, and I am sure everyone will too.  Go all out on this aircraft - and now the sim is 64bit - no one has to worry about VAS issues anymore.

 

Try to use A2A's rain for VC but even true glass is fine.

 

Model all failures.

 

As A2A does not model windshield wipers that is something we most certainly not do.  While I do not fully know what PMDG level should be I assume you mean a complete failure mode? If so I am sorry but we most certainly not plan something like that. We feel things like Connected Flight Deck that allows you to fly as part of a crew is far more important for realism. A Twin Otter is flown with two people, flying it alone is simply not allowed. It's illegal.

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9 hours ago, luke123452468 said:

 

I feel like with a completed A320 it would be much easier to go on and create an A330 as they are pretty similar.

 

Well, they sure look very different so complete new modeling is needed and that takes serious time. We are also overhauling a lot of the code that is shared with the A320 series (some of that has already been provided for the A320 owners btw.  Connected Flight Deck, Electronic Flight Bag with full charts support etc, it all adds up to a lot of time. In between we also have to complete professional products, educational versions of the A320 etc.  Keep in mind that Aerosoft is not a developer that works on one product like almost all FS-add-on developers do. we have over 30 running projects.

 

13 hours ago, Tubodriver said:

From an eye candy perspective, I would like to see some serious work on the pilots. For example, animated pilots (having similar movements to those in the Majestic Q400). They need to look look "modern" and without their hand permanently attached to the throttle.

 

Does the Q400 have animated pilots? We experimented a lot with that but were never happy at an acceptable frame rate. And even at 10 fps all animation start to look repetitive after a few hours and our testers switched it off.

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I would say rain effects, realistic startup, volumetric props, and simulated wear and tear so you have to keep up on maintenance, like some of the A2A planes and the Ants T-28s.

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4 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

Well, they sure look very different so complete new modeling is needed and that takes serious time. We are also overhauling a lot of the code that is shared with the A320 series (some of that has already been provided for the A320 owners btw.  Connected Flight Deck, Electronic Flight Bag with full charts support etc, it all adds up to a lot of time. In between we also have to complete professional products, educational versions of the A320 etc.  Keep in mind that Aerosoft is not a developer that works on one product like almost all FS-add-on developers do. we have over 30 running projects.

 

 

Does the Q400 have animated pilots? We experimented a lot with that but were never happy at an acceptable frame rate. And even at 10 fps all animation start to look repetitive after a few hours and our testers switched it off.

 

Yes sir, it does.  We were able to put it in as eye candy since the frame rates were extremely friendly. It's a basic animation pattern that is repeated.  I don't believe most people care about it or even noticed it, though some certainly do.

 

 

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Hi,

 

For the float versions an improved handling of the aircraft in the water would be fine. I have seen on Maldives, how they maneuver the aircraft in the harbor. Doing the same in the sim is really hard or even impossible (especially with some wind blowing).

 

And please allow an option to choose F1 GTN 750 vs. RealityXP GTN 750. Should be the same from modelling perspective.

 

Rgds

Reinhard

 

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Reinhard, you got any other floater that I should look at to judge the behavior on water?
We have several pilots advising us on how it should feel on land, but we never found anybody to advise us on how it behaves as a a boat. I have very limited experience in a SuperCub on floats but that hardly helps.

 

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Reinhard, not sure if this helps but there is a thread related to taxiing this aircraft and a link to an interesting article from Flight Global Aviation News describing water prosedures from a test flight. I, too have a hard time with the Twotter on the water.

 

Randy

 

 

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A2A Has a tool called "Accu-Feel" where You can adjust alot of parameters for ground and water behaviour as well as adding additional sounds and effects.

Uisng dual throttles with the Twin Otter helps alot to manuevre in the water, but I think taht FSX/P3D lis lacking with water physics regardless what You do.

 

Regarding A2A's windscreen rain effects, that apart from not supporting the effect of the windscreenwipers, they neither support other than single engines aircraft with the propeller just in front of the windscreen.

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This request ist very much appreciated! TwinOtter is one of my favorites

 

Please improve the

- water rudder (today not existing) plus realistic more efficient right/left engine steering on water

 

- Lift up/drop the skies with different behaviour compared to the wheels

 

- hide of the steering (today not existing)

 

Thanks

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Water rudders has actually been fitted in order to improve water maneuvrebility - but are invisible. They are only extended below 25 kts though.

Be aware that FSX/P3S also doesn´t do a great job simulating differential power, or single engine behaviour.

 

Not to spoil anything, but do not think we can work wonders on how P3D simulates water physics, though we will try.

 

Just like Helicopters in FSX/P3D, Turboprops and water physics are really lacking, and needs serious workarounds to get right.

 

 

Playing the Devils Advocat here I need to tell that simulating a Turboprop model outside P3D, like Majestic has done with their Dash-8 Q400 takes alot of effort.

 

I think the developement of the Dash 8 took serveral years for just one engine model.

Remember that the Trwin Otter comes in both the -100 and -300, as well as the float, amphibious and ski version comes with startlocks.

 

Also the Milviz PC-6 is a single engined aircraft. Their Turboprop model is great, but the reason why they have released the PC-6 before their Beechcraft Kingair, might indicate that it´s not suitable yet for twin engined flight behaviour - just something that springs to my mind.

 

I´m not negative minded regarding upgrading the Twin Otter Turboprop model, cause I´m sure it can be tweaked alot more, but expectations should also be held at a realistic level. Thats also why most of the well known high-end developers keep away from Turboprops. Remember that the Majestic Dash-8 Q400 is also used profesionally so the developement has a much stronger economical base.

 

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