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Airbus Plane behavior becomes crazy and erratic at low framerates


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Hi,

 

I post this problem here as it has been discussed and developed on AVSIM forums

 

Problem: When the frame rates become too low (for instance when P3D  loads a lots of files related to the coming scenery),  the bus becomes completely erratic and uncontrollable: It climbs, descent, rolls, flaps move, speed brakes open/close, etc. This occurs whit any version of the Bus (A318 to A321). Version 1241.

 

As soon as the frame rates become normal (i.e 20 fps or more), things return to normal.

 

Useless to say that this is totally unrealistic!

 

So, do you expect to study and solve this problem which is a major flaw (for your information, Fslabs Airbus do not have this behavior).

 

Thanks.

 

Patrice.

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  • Aerosoft

This is the only way to keep the FPS as high as it is and we do not plan any changes. Sorry. We do not see this as a major flaw but certainly as a limitation.

 

We do see these issues with some users as you mention, but we find it hard to actually replicate this on out systems because we do not often seen these massive drops in fps. P3D is very capable of handing over these tasks to other cores.  We can only replicate this reliable when we do manual tweaks to the cfg files. 

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2 hours ago, Patrice_cesson said:

Hi,

 

I post this problem here as it has been discussed and developed on AVSIM forums

 

Problem: When the frame rates become too low (for instance when P3D  loads a lots of files related to the coming scenery),  the bus becomes completely erratic and uncontrollable: It climbs, descent, rolls, flaps move, speed brakes open/close, etc. This occurs whit any version of the Bus (A318 to A321). Version 1241.

 

As soon as the frame rates become normal (i.e 20 fps or more), things return to normal.

 

Useless to say that this is totally unrealistic!

 

So, do you expect to study and solve this problem which is a major flaw (for your information, Fslabs Airbus do not have this behavior).

 

Thanks.

 

Patrice.

 

Hello Patrice,

 

Would you please do me a favor and list your complete system specs including which motherboard you have, the type and size monitor, any CPU/GPU overclock, and any P3D tweaks you may have?

 

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Patrice, as Mathijs said, it is a matter of the complete sim environment. Till 4 month ago, I had a quite slow system (10 years old) with only a I7-860, with 8GB RAM, a GTX660 with 2GB RAM, using P3Dv4, tons of addons incl. a mesh, Orbx stuff etc. and with decent settings I was able to run the Airbus without problems, even in dense areas like EGLL with real weather.

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Hello Dave,

 

Here are my system specs:

 

CM ASUS Maximus X hero, Proc. core i7-9700K à 5000 Mhz, 32GO RAM DDR4 GSkill 3000 Mhz, CG MSI RTX 2080 Ventus 8 GO VRAM, 2 Monitors ASUS ROG PG279Q + PG278Q no G-sync (1440*2560), Alim Seasonic X 760W, OS Windows 10 PRO x64, OS and programs On a Samsung 860 EVO NVME SSD 500 GB, P3D sw on a dedicated SSD Crucial X500 2TB, ORBX and some sceneries on a Samsung 850 EVO 2TB SSD, other storage Seagate Constellation 2TB.

 

GPU overclock: none

 

I use also Process Lasso for P3D affinity setting (to cores 1 to 7, core 0 excluded) and process priorities/control/execution smoothing.

 

Patrice.

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

TBH, I f those are your specs and your Airbus gets "unflyable" due to low fps, then something else is wrong with your system. And I can onyl recommend: simply stop tweaking your system with any fancy tools. Since I did so several years agao, I had a very stable system with no problems at all and quite good fpfs with decent settings aligined to my hadrware.

 

JM2C and no further comment on this "issue".

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49 minutes ago, Patrice_cesson said:

Hello Dave,

 

Here are my system specs:

 

CM ASUS Maximus X hero, Proc. core i7-9700K à 5000 Mhz, 32GO RAM DDR4 GSkill 3000 Mhz, CG MSI RTX 2080 Ventus 8 GO VRAM, 2 Monitors ASUS ROG PG279Q + PG278Q no G-sync (1440*2560), Alim Seasonic X 760W, OS Windows 10 PRO x64, OS and programs On a Samsung 860 EVO NVME SSD 500 GB, P3D sw on a dedicated SSD Crucial X500 2TB, ORBX and some sceneries on a Samsung 850 EVO 2TB SSD, other storage Seagate Constellation 2TB.

 

GPU overclock: none

 

I use also Process Lasso for P3D affinity setting (to cores 1 to 7, core 0 excluded) and process priorities/control/execution smoothing.

 

Patrice.

 

 

I agree with Otto, something is amiss.  I would remove your Affinity Mask and any other tweaks you have, and give it a try then.  Also, be sure to clear you P3D shaders as the Airbus Pro uses TrueLight and RealGlass.

 

This could also be  your P3D settings.  If you get a chance, please provide screen shots of your Graphics settings (all categories including World).

 

 

 

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Hi Dave,

 

I will keep my affinity mask. Why?

 

Because if I remove it (and I tried it) , ChasePlane and LittleNavMap tools stop operating properly : They have lots of lags and are not responding, with erratic behavior. (For Chaseplane in particular, it becomes unusable and for a moment, I thought that my sim was totally broken). And it may be also not good for Windows too.

 

So, for security reasons, I prefer to keep core 0 for other usage than  P3D. And this works well. And thanks to Process Lasso, this is very easy to set up, even on the fly if I want to play with this.

 

Below my settings (attached): Nothing strange here I think.

 

Patrice.

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  • Aerosoft

If you manually force processes to cores, the results for the developers of add-ons are unpredictable and you could run into unexpected issues as we simply do not program to that environment. Our software will try to access cores that you blocked. 

 

To be perfectly honest, we run P3D on many machines 24/7 in our offices for test and we tried all tweaks in combination with all kinds of add-ons. We simply have never seen that core management made any sense. If it clearly makes sense on your machine that indicates to us that there is more in play. Something on your system blocks the near perfect core management of Win10 and P3D.

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2 hours ago, Patrice_cesson said:

Because if I remove it (and I tried it) , ChasePlane and LittleNavMap tools stop operating properly : They have lots of lags and are not responding, with erratic behavior. (For Chaseplane in particular, it becomes unusable and for a moment, I thought that my sim was totally broken). And it may be also not good for Windows too.

 

I agree with others, the post from you implicate that you simply "mistweaked" your P3D in a way that you get lower FPS your system should be capable of.

 

An AffinityMask makes only sense if you want to run a processor with hyperthreading but restrict P3D on the logical cores only. Your 9700K has no hyperthreading, as such also no need for an AffinityMask. BTW: what number do you use for AffinityMask in your prepar3d.cfg?

 

Then, if ChasePlane and LittleNavMap do not work properly without AffinityMask, you can be certain that also for those something is wrong and probably your AM setting is just plain wrong. Otherwise, all users using ChasePlane and LittleNavMap would have issues when not using an AffinityMask and guess what, nobody reported such an observation.

 

Personally, I am not entirely sure how you set up your P3D. You talk about AffinityMask but also about ProcessLasso used for P3D. What is it? If you define an AffinityMask in your prepar3d.cfg but you use another logic with ProcessLasso, I would not be surprised that P3D does not perform as it should. Most use ProcessLasso only for the addons, that they do not use Core0 (and leave this core to P3D). This is widely accepted as the "best" solution, give P3D the Core0 and restrict all addons to other cores. In my case, as an example, I use an AffinityMask of 1365 to restrict P3D to the six "true" (logical) cores of my 8700K with HT enabled and all addons are restricted to Core4, Thread4, Core5 and Thread5 via a .bat file. As such, four of my six-core CPU are reserved for P3D only, the remaining two cores and threads are by far sufficient for all of my addons running along with P3D (REX EF, ActiveSky, ProATC/X).

 

Besides that, my settings are very close to yours, same resolution with a 1080Ti. Just in the autogen-tab everything one notch to the left. And I never have FPS below 20, only maybe on EHAM with TE Netherlands and bad weather...

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Hey Patrice,

 

I think my Boss and Querer covered Affinity Mask pretty well.  There are times when AF is useful, but I don't believe your situation is one where I would use it. Let me give you an example by showing you what I run on my system.

 

System Specs:

 

i7-4770K with all 4 cores locked at 4.5GHz

Windows, P3D and all addons installed to a single Samsung SSD (allows me to image my install for quick re-installation if needed)

16GB Ram

NVIDIA GTX1080 (Vanilla) with 8GB VRAM pushing 1x55 inch 4K TV and 3x23 inch LCD Monitors

ORBX Global/Vector and all payware airport scenery across the globe.

All PMDG Aircraft, All Aerosoft Airliners, Leonardo MD-80, Majestic Dash 8 Q400 Pro/Training Editions

 

Other flight sim software that runs on the same computer on every flight while running P3D:

 

ActiveSky

ActiveSky Cloud Art

High Resolution EVENTEX graphics

Navigraph Charts

Aivlasoft EFB

Chaseplane

OBS Studio (Live Streaming to 5 Venues)

Live Stream Chat Software

Vpilot

Web Browser (to monitor stream)

Discord

Skype

 

I've also run Plan-G and LittleNavMap along with the software shown above, though I don't do so very often.

 

 

That's a LOT of software running on one machine, especially when running high-end airliners and graphics.  And... I don't use Affinity Mask, but as a former computer engineer I've tested many different processor configurations and with P3D my system runs far better without an AF setting.  Also, I don't use any P3D tweaks (I see you don't either).

 

Regarding your settings, I see some things that might make a difference.

 

-Set Cloud Draw Distance to 90 miles.

-Get rid of all shadows settings except the first two lines unless you're flying General Aviation (and even then they're really don't make a difference towards immersion).

-Change Shadow Quality to Medium

-Change Shadow Draw Distance to Low (that's what I use)

-For World Settings, see the attached graphic below.

-Change AA setting to 2xMSAA  (SSAA can be very tough, standard advice is to use MSAA)

-Consider changing Texture Filtering to Anisotrophic 8x instead of 16x

 

Please login to display this image.

 

 

 

The other thing you might want to do is perform a stress test on your processor.  Not all individual processors are created equal, even in the same batch, and if one is having issues then it's a good idea to test the processor.

 

 

I hope this is helpful to you my friend.  Let us know how you make out?

 

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Patrice_cesson said:

I do nothing in p3d.cfg. I use only process lasso for affinity mask setting (for p3d and all add-ons)

 

Then I would strongly recommend to change your ProcessLasso approach at least for a test to something like that:

 

- use ProcessLasso to run P3D on core0 - core5, means on the first six cores of your 9700K.

- use ProcessLasso to run everything else (all addons) on core6 and core7

 

I do not really understand why you push P3D off core0 with ProcessLasso, where did you get this idea from? It is usually exactly the opposite: avoid anything else than P3D running on core0...

 

Regarding settings: I contradict Dave (sorry Dave ;-)), as your rig should be able to handle the settings you showed above.

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To

Patrice_cesson

 

Hi Sorry to butt in but i have a I7 8700k and a 1080 GPU and it runs the Airbus fine... one setting i saw that could cause the FPS isse is the Autogen and scenery draw distance ....you have set it to very high .. set it to medium and off set the lack of autogen in the distance by setting Active skys Low vis level to max 20 miles , with just that one P3D setting change i can max out the other slidders ... heres mine and my sim keeps more or less to its locked 32 and the only P3D tweek i have is

[MAIN]
FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.01

 

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33 minutes ago, Querer said:

Regarding settings: I contradict Dave (sorry Dave ;-)), as your rig should be able to handle the settings you showed above.

 

No worries, I should have said that I want to get him to a point where things are running well for him, and then he can start increasing settings.

 

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Ok, thank you all, I will do some more tests.

 

Querer,

Regarding core 0, what I mean is that I reserve it for windows, mainly, to be sure the system runs fine. That’s why I did not use core 0 with P3d as I know that P3d is a very demanding app. And I ran all other addons also on core 0.

 

But:

I just made a test with removing all AF data (in P3d and all add-ons) in Process Lasso and all runs well, so ok regarding this point, but no performance increase to be noticed (almost the same as before, maybe slightly better).

 

Dave,

I will try your suggestions and check what will happen then. I will give you a feedback.

Regarding a stress test, I will skip this for the moment as ambiant temps are high now in Brittany.

 

Regarding the initial problem, Today, I made several flights with the AS A320 Bus and did not see the problem, even when P3D pause while loading scenery elements.

Maybe This is ok now since I made some housekeeping in my P3D?

 

Thanks again to you all.

 

Patrice

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Patrice_cesson said:

Ok, thank you all, I will do some more tests.

 

Querer,

Regarding core 0, what I mean is that I reserve it for windows, mainly, to be sure the system runs fine. That’s why I did not use core 0 with P3d as I know that P3d is a very demanding app. And I ran all other addons also on core 0.

 

But:

I just made a test with removing all AF data (in P3d and all add-ons) in Process Lasso and all runs well, so ok regarding this point, but no performance increase to be noticed (almost the same as before, maybe slightly better).

 

Dave,

I will try your suggestions and check what will happen then. I will give you a feedback.

Regarding a stress test, I will skip this for the moment as ambiant temps are high now in Brittany.

 

Regarding the initial problem, Today, I made several flights with the AS A320 Bus and did not see the problem, even when P3D pause while loading scenery elements.

Maybe This is ok now since I made some housekeeping in my P3D?

 

Thanks again to you all.

 

Patrice

 

 

 

 

 

You are most welcome my friend!  We're all flight simmers here, even those of us who work behind the scenes, so we all hate to hear of someone experiencing poor performance with any sim!

 

Please do not hesitate to contact any of us in the future.

 

My very best wishes for happy flights!

 

 

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14 hours ago, Patrice_cesson said:

Querer,

Regarding core 0, what I mean is that I reserve it for windows, mainly, to be sure the system runs fine. That’s why I did not use core 0 with P3d as I know that P3d is a very demanding app. And I ran all other addons also on core 0.

 

Seriously, try it. P3D should run on core0. Windows does not need any resources while you are flying around in P3D, why should you block the core0 for Windows but force P3D off it? Makes no sense...

 

But if you stubbornly resist to at least try it once exactly(!) the way I suggested, well, then we can not help you any further, sorry to say...

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