Meyerflyer 154 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Hello, after updating to latest experimental update I just noticed that the thrust for takeoff was lower than the climb thrust. So I took off with the A319 IAE with a flex temp of 74 and about 58t, so quite light. The thrust was felt and audible very low, the take off run was waaay longer than expected and before the update. Climb performance was absolutely bad. When I retarded the thrust levers to CL/CLB the engines spooled up instead of down and the climb performance improved. Is this as expected? Since now, I only knew that the climb thrust of an engine of the 777 could be higher than flex. I think there is something wrong in the new update. What's going on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel_V 14 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I noticed and something similar happens in the descent and approximation phase, after the last update, the speed is always in the lower limit, never in the correct and assigned, I did not notice the ascent phase, but if I noticed something different when passing power of takeoff to CL , today I will look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 Any comment from Aerosoft on this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abright12 7 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 74 is an extremely high flex temp. IRL I almost never use a flex temp of more than 60, even on a completely empty aircraft. If you have a flex temp of around 55 or lower it either be a thrust reduction or sometimes little to no reduction in the higher temps after climb power is selected. Many aircraft using a highly derated takeoff see a thrust increase when climb power is selected. What you describe sounds like normal systems operation to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Okay but this cannot be a normal behaviour as the recommended flex temp was 67 so I only added 7 for economic reasons due to using a 3300m long runway with the A319. I'm pretty sure, the takeoff performance would have been been with the flex temp of 67. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragged^2 40 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just tested in ESSA / 01L, A320 IAE vs CFM and the CFM takes off just fine with a flex of +60 and 60.1T TOW where as the IAE was only giving ~1.25-.35 on the EPR and couldn't even accelerate at 0 ftp after rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 There are so many reports of a bug with the IAE busses right now. Someone should seriously have a close look at this now. Something went wrong with one of the latest updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyJetSetter 11 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 A319 IAE (1.2.1.3). T/O run is about 500 ft longer as with CFM engines (67° at 55t). V2+10 feels a lot sticky, but the ECAM indications look normal. If i set the CL detend the engines run smoothly without any glitches, but in V/S mode, the needles are dancing up and down, the donout stays there he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan Alonso 64 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 28 minutes ago, Meyerflyer said: There are so many reports of a bug with the IAE busses right now. Someone should seriously have a close look at this now. Something went wrong with one of the latest updates. Yep. FLEX temp is not working anymore as it should on IAE. Applying FLEX thrust means taking off with the horsepower of my Seat Ibiza. The same FLEX temps (not the same but relative) works fine on CFM though. Using http://www.wabpro.cz/A320/ I had no problems until 1.2.1.1. So now I'm using latest update with the exception of ECAM_D2D.dll, which is from 1.2.1.0. Until this gets fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs masterhawk 799 Posted October 25, 2018 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted October 25, 2018 Hi, for flex with IAE there are some rules. A flex of 76 is not allowed. TFLEXMAX at sea level is 70degree. Less if you are higher. I also have FCOM that state as max 57 and 60, depending on engine. There are more rules. I’m not sure if wabpro is calculating all correct. These calculations are very Engine depending. Also how old is an engine. An official departure tool should be reference and not an online tool. You should use the built in flex temp calc. Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragged^2 40 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, masterhawk said: I’m not sure if wabpro is calculating all correct. An official departure tool should be reference and not an online tool. Nice joke. You can't expect us to have access to that kind of information. The best we can do is use tools like wabpro or topcat (which doesn't have IAE profiles). The Aerobus doesn't calculate FLEX for intersection departures for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs masterhawk 799 Posted October 25, 2018 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted October 25, 2018 I can ask the dev if there was something modified for IAE in regard of flex calc. Only thing that was modified is the CLB perf of the 320IAE. I will look into the intersection calculation. Maybe it can be added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted October 25, 2018 Aerosoft Share Posted October 25, 2018 Keep in mind that there are other limitations in play; check the FCOM for these Thrust must not be reduced by more than 25 % of the full rated takeoff thrust. The flexible takeoff N1 cannot be lower than the Max climb N1 at the same flight conditions. \ The FADEC takes the above two constraints into account to determine flexible N1. The flexible takeoff thrust cannot be lower than the Max Continuous thrust used for the final takeoff flight path computation (at ISA +40). This constraint limits the maximum flexible temperature at ISA + 43 (58 °C at sea level). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragged^2 40 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 17 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said: Keep in mind that there are other limitations in play; check the FCOM for these Thrust must not be reduced by more than 25 % of the full rated takeoff thrust. The flexible takeoff N1 cannot be lower than the Max climb N1 at the same flight conditions. \ The FADEC takes the above two constraints into account to determine flexible N1. The flexible takeoff thrust cannot be lower than the Max Continuous thrust used for the final takeoff flight path computation (at ISA +40). This constraint limits the maximum flexible temperature at ISA + 43 (58 °C at sea level). Well it obviously doesn't take these constraints into account as it gives EPR of just 1.25-.35 with FLEX given by a takeoff performance calculator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan Alonso 64 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Let me say that this problem we have encountered in the latest updates is not a subtle feeling that the IAE is underpowered with some FLEX temp. It's clearly not an error of calculation within the calc tool we may use. It's a clear and noticeable lack of power whatever the FLEX temp you use. But it used to work until 1.2.1.1. with the same tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragged^2 40 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 There's definitely something wrong with the current IAE FLEX settings. I tried again a takeoff in ESSA with numbers put into wabpro, which gave me a FLEX of 67. I lowered it down to FLEX 54C (OAT -1) and after rotation and following the FD the speed kept slowing down and I ended up in alpha floor. Same airport, runway, weather and weight the CFM climbs out just fine with FLEX 79. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chumley 9 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I may be having the same issue with the IAE model. I set up everything according to correct procedures and had a FLEX of 67 in the MCDU. Take off commenced and I rotated at the calculated speed and correct rate. Within seconds of lift off speed started to decay rapidly and I was forced to firewall the throttles and drop the nose to maintain level flight until speed was sufficient to recommence climbout. When speed was sufficient and positive rate was achieved I retracted the undercarriage and set the Autopilot. The aircraft accelerated to 250knts and continued to climb at a satisfactory rate. This not the first time I have had this problem and I can't be certain (and I certainly could be wrong) but it may have started when the IAE taxi rate was altered to slow taxi speed down under idle throttle conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayal 15 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just had the same things happen to me taking of from LHBP. This was only using a FLEX of 52 for the A320 IAE. I had to advance throttles to the TOGA detent to get enough power for TO. The RWYS at LHBP are more than long enough and my aircraft was more than light enough for a derated TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chumley 9 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 14 hours ago, chumley said: ...... This not the first time I have had this problem and I can't be certain (and I certainly could be wrong) but it may have started when the IAE taxi rate was altered to slow taxi speed down under idle throttle conditions. This comment related to the CFM engine variant so is not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor84 2 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Does anyone know if this problem with the IAE engine and flex temp been fixed with a recent update to Aerosoft A320 Professional?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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