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Hi,

Let me share an observation from several flights, which are concerning the Approach and corresponding CL. Please note that I am using A320 pro, version 1.2.1.0 with the included Easy Jet livery (if it matters). Check lists and co-pilot are both on. Would appreciate comments.

1. I noticed that there was a stand alone call for activating the Auto brakes quite sometime before the approach CL was started. This activation was part of Approach CL before. I actually have no idea how a RW approach CL looks like, however this setting might be part of some CL, but not as a stand alone item, at least as per my opinion.

2. There were several altitude notifications during descend, which have nothing to do with the altimeter. It seems they come due to some interference or a bug, which is very difficult to trace because they are not repeated even following same rout at same place.

3. Were the calls for localizer and glide slope availability and capturing removed? I did not notice such in various flights. The good thing is that the plane follows.

Would appreciate any comments and suggestions.

 

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
  1. RL-Procedure: Before passing 10.000 feet all approach preperations (inputting of MCDU data, Autobrake setting, briefing) should be finished. Therefor the autobrake will be set before passing 10.000.
  2. Those ALT calls are a feature of the MCDU3 (Enhanced Ground Proxemity Warning) and are based on Radio ALT.....
  3. Those calls are not removed and still a feature (Localizer /Glideslope alive and captured) and I cannot reproduce the issue you are talking about e.g. it must be a problem of your installation or settings.....

Regards,

Rolf

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Hi Rolf,

Thank you for the reply! I fully agree with your answers on items 1 and 3. Need to check once again especially point 3 during my next flight because there were no such calls during several approaches to different airports. It might be some kind of my fault.

Unfortunately your statement: 

17 hours ago, Hanse said:

Those ALT calls are a feature of the MCDU3 (Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning) and are based on Radio ALT.....

 sounds, gently speaking, very strange. It is beyond my understanding how a EGPW can be activated and announce 2,500 (with a male voice) when the plane is cruising at FL350 for example. This as per my simple logic means that the plane is passing above a mountain pick almost 10,000 m  (9,906 m to be precise) height above the sea level. The highest place in Europe, where my flight was, is Elbrus 15,781 ft (4,810 m). The difficult part is how to record such calls when they come absolutely unexpected?!

Kindly comment.

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

2. Then there seems also to be a problem with this feature like with #3. Because until now you are the only user having those issues (and I am not able to reproduce) it must be related to your installation......

 

Regards,

Rolf

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Hi Rolf,

Can you be more specific what you mean in your statement?

On 10/15/2018 at 10:52 AM, Hanse said:

I am not able to reproduce, it must be related to your installation......

My system is Intel i7, 4790, 3.6 GHz, DDR3 800 MHz, 16 Gb, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060, 6Gb RAM. I am using AS Airbus A320/321 rev. 1.2.1.2 and P3D V4 latest version. My P3D settings are exactly as recommended in the last pages of AS documentation, Vol. 1, pages 01-03-27 and 28.

 

One general comment, if you don't mind and without any prejudice.

Can you please bare in mind that not all AS Customers are children or teenagers? There are lots of us who are adults with different background, professions and experience and transferring the problems from your head to ours sounds, gently speaking "strange". I would like always to keep the communications ethics and would avoid any harsh expressions, however it would be a good suggestion to the entire AS project team, if you reconsider your policy for handling the Customer complains. It sounds much more trustful and professional, if you admit that you do not have a definite or clear answer at particular point of time, instead of trying to transfer the problem to the Customer.

Last, but not least is please let me share what I had inherited from my older colleagues and what I am always insisting from my young subordinates: "Customers are among our organization’s most valuable assets"

Thank you for understanding and no bad feelings at all.

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Hi,

first I allways try to reproduce the issue and then I know where to look into my code (I am the responsible developer of the MCDU3, CL and Copilot function). But in your 2 general issues (LS annoucements and EGPWS) I have no idea. As also there is not even one of a couple of thousands other users "complaining" about the same issues, it therefore must be related to the installation and not to the software. I am sorry that I was not precise enough in my last statement regarding "installation". From my point of view I would suggest a clean new installation of the Aerosoft Airbus Professional and before doing so to delete the current installation using the Windows functionality and afterwards manually deleting all maybe still remaining folders / files. If you do not know how to do this then please open another thread in the forum (not in this subforum) or try to contact support and get a ticket.

Regarding your advice how to treat customers I do not accept this. If you look into this subforum - for which I take care - you will see that I tried to solve / answer all mentioned issues as fast and detailed as possible. And I am sure that it was successfull because there are today no open issues which I could not solve by telling the user what he should do or by updating the software or implementing new features. 

 

Regards,

Rolf

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Good evening,

Being a person who is operating with definite expressions, let me explain some steps followed earlier today:

1. Uninstalled the AS Professional using the Windows Control panel, etc.

2. Removed (manually deleted) all left over folders from Documents and Roaming on HDD.

3. Restarted the computer.

4. Uninstalled P3D. This was an action planned earlier for shifting the SIM outside Program folder.

5. Manually deleted all left over folders from the HDD. There is a detailed instruction in Lockheed Martin site for the same.

6. Restarted the computer and deactivated the antivirus software.

7. Did a clean install of P3D (version 4.3.29.25520) and Airbus (version 1.2.1.0, which is the standalone version as per the instructions posted here.

8. Created a folder PMDG\WX under the P3D main folder manually.

NOTE: It is recommended this step to be added somewhere in the manual. There are people who are using Airbus only and there is no way how they can know that the Bus reads the wind data from PMDG folder!

9. Updated the bus to version 1.2.1.2 using the updater.

10. Planned a flight EHAM - LPPT using PFPX, which is a software distributed by AS.

11. Created a fuel / load plan using the included planner.

12. Started the SIM and loaded the file plan and previously created fuel plan.

13. Following were the MCDU settings: Dep. Rwy 18L, SID: KUDA1E, Arr. Rwy 21, STAR: INBO5B, cruising level FL350. AIRAC 1811 using NavDataPro. Weather engine Active Sky 16 with soft clouds. Used livery - Easy Jet G-EZTB, A320-214 CFM, included into the package.

14. The 3 important files, flight plan, fuel plan and wind data are attached for reference.

The flight was normal in general. The announcement 2,500 was made app. 5 miles before starting the Descent Preparation Checklist. I could record the distance from the green text counting the remaining miles before starting the Descent Preparation Checklist. Unfortunately have no idea how can this be recorded and sent for evidence. There was no issue with localizer and glide slope announcements, which were mentioned in my first post. Landing was proper with no issues.

 

Some final words.

I do not know how my statements concerning handling the Customer complains were perceived. I do apologize, if someone was affected due to whatever reasons. However and being for some decades into Customer oriented business I have to mention one golden rule that "Customer is always right". Without having the intention for being a mentor to anyone, I strongly feel that such rules should be followed.

Thank you!

Data_16_10.zip

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Hi, first thanks for the good news that the glideslope issue disappeared after the new installation.

 

Based on your detailed information I just made the same flight and fortunately I was not able to reproduce the 2.500 feet call until I passed the T/D (32 NM before INBOM) as well as passing INBOM itself already on descent. This means to me that the problem is based on something else but not on the Airbus software. So the question is what could cause this call. As I already told you the call is based on the radio altitude and those data are delivered by P3Dv4 and calculated from the scenery installed. For this flight I used FTX Global Base Pack and openLC Europe as well as FTX Global Vector and nothing else......

Therefore you should check the following:

  • Can you reproduce this issue on every flight or it is just the flight EHAM-LPPT?
  • What additional scenery is installed on your system and is the priority sequence in the library correct?
  • What happens if you disable the scenery used for this specific flight?
  • If you get this call is the exact radio altitude displayed at that moment displayed on the PFD?

Regards,

Rolf

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Good evening Rolf,

Thank you for the advise. I planned and flew another flight yesterday. Here are my comments:

Flight LPPT - LPMA. Aircraft A 320, livery G-EZTB (EasyJet). Pax 176, Cargo 1,577 kg, CI8, Cruising altitude FL350

Departure Rwy 03, SID: GANS5N, Landing Rwy 05, STAR LIDR1C All applied files are attached.

Now the answers to your questions. I will use red color against each one.

On 10/17/2018 at 9:54 PM, Hanse said:
  • Can you reproduce this issue on every flight or it is just the flight EHAM-LPPT? - All flights flown till moment.
  • What additional scenery is installed on your system and is the priority sequence in the library correct? - Clean installation. Meaning no additional scenery from the original coming with P3D V4
  • What happens if you disable the scenery used for this specific flight? - No scenery
  • If you get this call is the exact radio altitude displayed at that moment displayed on the PFD? - will be explained down

The funny thing was that there were two altitude calls this time. The voice of the copilot (female) was heard. Both of them came during climbing to cruise level and before reaching T/C. First one was 2,000 heard at 29,000 ft and the second one - 1,000 at 32,000 ft. It has to be mentioned that there was no any affect on the flight recorded. Just an altitude announcement.

 

OFF-TOPIC: Will be curious if someone shares the experience of landing on LPMA, Rwy 05. It has only GNSS and the vertical profile leads the AC "nicely" to the water below the runway.

 

Data_20_10.zip

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Goshob,

  • You are stating that you can reproduce this issue (male EGPWS call = 2.500) on every flight? Is this correct or are you mixing it up with the copilot altitude awareness calls (see below)?
  • But what about my question: If you get this call is also the exact radio altitude displayed at that moment on the PFD?
  • If you caqn answer both previous questions with a definite YES then there is clearly a problem with your scenery: Please send me a copy of your scenery.cfg which you will find in the C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v\ folder.... so that I can check if the priorities are correct......
  • The copilot altitude awareness calls are something completely different than the EGPWS calls. During climb and descent the female copilot makes such calls at a difference of 2.000 and 1.000 feet before reaching the FCU altitude...... 

I really hope that you did not mix up the issue you stated with the awareness calls mentioned above........

 

Regards,

Rolf

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Goshob,

I tried both LPMA RNAV approaches and as you can see by the attached screenshots - no problems at all e.g. nice and smooth landings. I am now more and more convinced that your problems are based on your basic P3D v4 scenery. If you really want to fly such sophisticated aircrafts like the Airbus then you also should invest in the basic infrastructure......

 

Regards,

Rolf

 

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Hi Rolf,

Thank you for the posts. Further to it let me share some thoughts and mainly ask an important question:

23 hours ago, Hanse said:
  • You are stating that you can reproduce this issue (male EGPWS call = 2.500) on every flight? Is this correct or are you mixing it up with the copilot altitude awareness calls (see below)? - This question makes me really confused and thinking of it more and more, it may come out that I am mixing both subjects. I will ask a question down below about this.
  • But what about my question: If you get this call is also the exact radio altitude displayed at that moment on the PFD? - The altimeter readings were shown in my previous post: "Both calls came during climbing up to cruise level and before reaching T/C. First one was 2,000 heard at 29,000 ft and the second one - 1,000 at 32,000 ft."
  • If you can answer both previous questions with a definite YES then there is clearly a problem with your scenery: Please send me a copy of your scenery.cfg which you will find in the C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v\ folder.... so that I can check if the priorities are correct...... - I will send you the configuration file after some time. Unfortunately I have no access to my computer due to business related subjects, which are keeping me out from home for some time.
  • The copilot altitude awareness calls are something completely different than the EGPWS calls. During climb and descent the female copilot makes such calls at a difference of 2.000 and 1.000 feet before reaching the FCU altitude...... - Please check below

I have to admit that the subject of altitude awareness is something, which most probably I missed reading the documentation. I had spent flying more than 1000 hours with A320 under FSX:SE and there were no such calls, at least not at such altitudes. It would be of a great help, if you either explain or at least guide me to the place where I can read about these calls. I always look for the logic in things and unfortunately am unable to find such in a call 2,000 when the altimeter is showing 29,000 ft and the T/C is FL350. Same is valid for 1,000 one.

Concerning your second post, which is showing some approach screen shots to LPMA, I have to say that I made some changes in my scenery library adding FTX Global Base Pack and open LC Europe. Unfortunately I could not make any test flight yet due to business related reasons, which are higher priority.

Thank you very much and would appreciate yours regarding altitude awareness calls.

 

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Hi Goshob,

  • EGPWS: I believe that this feature was mixed up with the Awareness Calls and therefore we can for the time being close this topic.
  • AWARENESS CALLS: During climb and descent such calls were newly implemented into the CL based on requirements from RL pilots. 2.000 and 1.000 feet before the FCU altitude is reached those calls are made by the copilot. It is based on the FCU selected altitude and not on anything else like CRZ ALT. So if your CRZ ALT is 35.000 feet and on the FCU you selected 30.000 feet (because until now you did not get the ATC approval to climb to CRZ ALT) then there will be two calls e. g. at 28.000 and 29.000 feet. If you later change it to 35.000 then there will be additional calls at 33.000 and 34.000 feet. The same happenes during descent. I believe that explanation should be complete and understandable.
  • LPMA Approach: In the NavDataPro DB there are the following approaches available for RWY05: RNAV 05 - Y, RNAV 05 - Z and RWY05. Looking into the charts the RNAV approaches are RNP and the difference between the two is if you arriving from North or South. As the Aerosoft Airbus is RNP 0.30 "approved" you can use both approaches and the MDA is in that case 910 feet. This is the perfect approach I used...... The RNAV (GNSS) A 05 approach is not modeled in this DB - maybe in the Navigraph DB. This one ends at MA566 with a visual final approach. But as the Aerosoft Airbus is RNP "approved" you can use those RNP approaches and they "guide" you to the runway.

I think I now answered in depth all your questions and hope that in the meantime you changed your opinion regarding the Aerosoft support. As the topic of this thread is still "APPROACH CL" we now went far beyond that subject. If you have further questions please open a new topic with the appropriate headline.

 

Regards,

Rolf

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Good evening Rolf,

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation. Many subject got clear except one - Why do you think that I have a bad opinion for AS and your after sales support? I do admit that I made some suggestions and advises, which could be treated in different or double way. However all this was without any bad feelings at all. I am in a similar business and such "meetings" and "statements" (much, much harsh in many cases) are part of my daily routines.

However and before you close the topic, please do me a small favor. I am attaching the scenery.cfg file as you asked me several posts above. You may wish to analyse and comment it, if possible of course. You may send me a PM, if you think that this has nothing to do with the other part of the audience.

Thank you once again and sorry for any unwanted inconveniences, if any.

You can close the post, if you wish now.

scenery.zip

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