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Mathijs Kok

Vertical profile update

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A quick word on the vertical profiles issues we had.

 

As I am in German I had some more time to talk with Frank who programs those parts. It's all a very weird problem, close to release something changed somewhere and we simply have no idea. It's an Airbus and everything is so tightly interfaced that it's extremely hard to track back what it was (believe me, I spoken a lot with Airbus software engineers, the have exactly the same. In these events they decided they want to work at Boeing, lol). 

 

So instead of wasting time to debug and clutch we decided to seriously overhaul that module. That has been done and at this moment test flights flights are being done to tweak it so it is at worst 5% off the data in the FOM (believe me, for FS add-ons 5% is pretty damned good and you are really bumping against the limits of the sim).  These tests however take an incredible amount of time. We have 7 models (aircraft x engine) and for each we need to do these tests for 3 different weights (in between we can interpolate) and 4 different temperatures. Now say you need 5 flights for each (with a tweak after the first 4) combination and you got one very bored dev doing the same flight over and over while log files are written. However it simply had to be done, we could not drag the old model into the A330. Certainly not as we still had unexplained differences between systems, this is now removed as well.

 

Clearly we should have seen this issue before release. But as said it popped up very very late in a module we believed to be rock solid. These things happen. Worse is that we (I) should have made the decision to overhaul it sooner. Mea Culpa. 

 

So the update this afternoon will not contain these new files but we have good hope they will appear next week.

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What can we expect to see in today's update? And when will it be out? (do I go drinking after work, or fly the bus?)

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thank you for this promising update really looking forward
Maybe in future it would be possible to shorten the way to problem awareness as I experienced this already multiple times with different products during my fs career:

publisher x1 - ac performance problem
publisher x2 - blurries after release
publisher x3 - ac (lateral) path problems

 

Mechanisms were always the same:

it's not our product - must be smthng in your environment
we cannot replicate
(you) the customer don't understand anything and are doing smthng wrongly
this is normal

 

and the old (rfi) "request for information" game starts
-> you (the customer) didn't provide all the info we requested so don't expect anything.
totally understandable if you are the publisher but annoying if you are the customer.

 

and btw in all mentioned cases above in the end it was a publisher/product bug or problem.

verdict: I think if >5-10 users report the exact same problem then there IS a problem.

 

but again I really appreciate your post this is all I wanted to know and this will be a great product if it does what was promised - replpicate a flight within the limits of a pc as exact as possible (so +/- 5% would be great).

So take the time needed - looking forward to use your product again - which has a great look and feel and a great performance.

br
Mark

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25 minutes ago, boss128 said:

verdict: I think if >5-10 users report the exact same problem then there IS a problem.

 

Mmmm then we would have a LOT of problems....  we have close to 25 users a day who claim the serial code we send them is not correct, but we are 100% sure it is not an issue and when they insert is correctly it will work (these issue are always solved). The amount of times an issue is reported does not really indicate the seriousness of an issue. We were simply not able to recreate a lot of what was reported and had over 30 customer whos problems with this were solved after they re-installed the sim. So in your reckoning that most certainly indicates there IS a problem. Just not ours. We could help people solve it though. But if we are unable to recreate a problem we are unable to fix it.

 

Of course your posts makes a lot of sense, but to be honest, "we can't recreate/must be your system/etc" is standard for about 60% of our support. And I am not exaggerating when I say that is proven to be true 99% of the time.  If the aircraft looks wrong when you load it (as around 200 people reported) and it turns out to be because you load it in P3D V4.2 and not P3D V4.3 the reply 'it is your system' is simply true.

 

It is hard to make sure you distill the real issue out of that sea of comments. If we look at tickets (so mail support) we see that only one out of 350 tickets results in a new entree in our bugt rackers.

 

Again, I understand your post, CERTAINLY about this issue, but hard data suggest a different picture from our point of view.

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got that point - you certainly are overwhelmed sometimes with things which would be easily solveable on user side by just rtfm or with a little bit more carefulness.

In that regard the 5-10 users will probably not be the best indication - it's more than that like reports on different plattforms how the problem is reported and by whom etc. ....

But I agree it's certainly hard for a developer to isolate serious/code problems especially if they are not replicable.

So i'm really glad that smthng was found here and all the reporting which was done hopefully will lead to a solution.

I appreciate your support.

br

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Thanks for the comments. 

 

You know perhaps that these days we have a lot of non FS products (like bus, trains etc) so we can compare the customers between these groups. It is amazing how willing FS customers are willing to work with you to solve issues and how patient they are. Totally different from other groups. Over beers at FS shows we joke with people from other companies that we trained you guys well.

 

We are currently adding more resources to our support team (for example adding one person dedicated to controllers etc). Growth of that department is a bit behind the amount of sales. We are also expanding our test machines to 12 different systems to hope to be better able to recreate issues. Before you know it we are a serious company, lol.

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Hi Mathijs,

Good luck!

You right: It's a very hard work (I hope that 5 flight for each model will be sufficient..but maybe you need some ones more etc..).

You're right: also the real Bus is a really complex machine!

But we trust in you and your team, so good luck and keep all the time necessary to update the flight dynamics...5% of difference vs real data is a wonderful thing: also level D simulators have to respect this limit!!! Incredible, on considering the limits of fsx and p3d4..so good luck!!!!

Ciao

Andrea Buono

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Test flights are still going on as we speak (but we are getting there) and we believe this will solve the issue on all systems.

 

curent CLB PERF comparison A320 232 IAE.png

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1 hour ago, Jockos said:

That is impressive, Mathijs

 

Cheers

 

I just wish we caught this issue fully earlier (as said it was partly hidden by the fact it does not happen on all machines). But it is good to see this being brought up to spec right now.

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Hi all,
Installed the updates and until now no problems observed with the climb and descent profiles. Everything works as it should including all constraints.
Great job!
Ps; the "tesflights" has been done with an A319 - Easyjet and from EHAM to EGLL

Regards
Jo va Bra

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On 27.9.2018 at 10:23, Mathijs Kok sagte:

Test flights are still going on as we speak (but we are getting there) and we believe this will so lve the issue on all systems.

 

curent CLB PERF comparison A320 232 IAE.png

 

The diagram is awesome, thank you for sharing it. I guess, you do the same for all CFM models?

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On 28.9.2018 at 13:38, Joan Alonso sagte:

Does 1.2.1.0 contains this changes?

Hello Mathijs,

 

does your "Yes" count for this question as well?

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1 minute ago, Airbus Fan said:

Hello Mathijs,

 

does your "Yes" count for this question as well?

 

Nope. I would say they will update drag via air file, and no air file was updated with 1.2.1.0. Testing the last update I do not see any change in this regard. 

 

No rush, but may I ask an ETA for the update?

 

Thanks

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8 hours ago, Joan Alonso said:

 

Nope. I would say they will update drag via air file, and no air file was updated with 1.2.1.0. Testing the last update I do not see any change in this regard. 

 

No rush, but may I ask an ETA for the update?

 

Thanks

 

Same here.  "Rocketed" up to FL350 from KTPA in about 12 minutes on my latest flight, and got the same >5000 fpm descent in open descent, so it definitely seems the work is still in progress.

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Indeed. Please believe me there are 10 solid hours of tests flights being done every day.

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Hi, how are the tests going? Any update on this? Just curious if it's looking good for the next update.

 

Thanks

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Has the climb update for the A321 been incorporated into the 1.2.1.2 update?  I just downloaded the update today but haven't been able to try it out and wanted to know beforehand.

 

Thanks,

Dan

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I can confirm that the climb behavior of the A320 IAE is much improved; however the descent behavior still needs work - I still get excess of -5000 fpm in open descent as I've previously noted.  That said, I appreciate the fix and one thing at a time!

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