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Fuselage & wings mismatch


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Hi, 

 

I noticed today that the aircraft fuselage and wings do not reflect/emit light the same at night particularly (screenshot below). The entire plane should be the same level of darkness as how the fuselage is showing so I'm not sure why the wings are not doing the same. I am using PTA but all my other aircraft are not affected so I am pretty sure it is Airbus specific. I should also add this is using the BA livery provided but occurs on any livery.

 

My apologies if this has been flagged up before. 

 

Many thanks in advance and keep up the great work :) 

 

Aaron

 

 

 

 

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Well the problem is PTA (or any othe shader tool). The Airbus has been modelled using latest technologies provided by LM with P3DV4. These technologies allow a design that really fits to reallity making shader tools obsolete. Maybe other aircraft (most of there modells are port overs to P3Dv4) need those tweaks to look good, the Airbus does not. Combined with wrong settings it happens that darker parts go pure black and brighter parts get pure white, so that everything looks unrealistic. The tweaks might be still good for landscape, but not for modern aircraft. Tryit without PTA and see the result.

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4 hours ago, mopperle said:

Well the problem is PTA (or any othe shader tool). The Airbus has been modelled using latest technologies provided by LM with P3DV4. These technologies allow a design that really fits to reallity making shader tools obsolete. Maybe other aircraft (most of there modells are port overs to P3Dv4) need those tweaks to look good, the Airbus does not. Combined with wrong settings it happens that darker parts go pure black and brighter parts get pure white, so that everything looks unrealistic. The tweaks might be still good for landscape, but not for modern aircraft. Tryit without PTA and see the result.

 

Hi Mopperle, 

 

Thanks for the reply.

I understand that the Airbus is with all the latest technologies but the other aircraft where this does not happen with were also not ports over to v4. What's weird is the fuselage and tail do respond to PTA and only the wings that do not.

 

Could it be something in the texture.cfg that is stopping the wings from responding?

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  • Deputy Sheriffs

Have you tried to disable some of the tweaks in the settings of PTA? I can remember that some problems where solved for some customers, when they disabled a single setting in the aircraft section.

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  • Aerosoft

On my screen your screenshots show a fuselage and wing that are almost completely black btw. all under 10,10.10, which seems to suggest a PTA setting that SERIOUSLY darkers the darker side of the spectrum or a lack of external light sources. Can you show the effect you see more clearly? 

 

I attach an image of how the model should reflect the sodium lights of an airport with the default simulator.

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As this is pretty much how it should look I suggest you try to get as close as this with tweaked settings. If you prefer a more dramatic look with many of the midrange colors moved from the center you will have to accept that things do not look as the modeler intended. Many users like that more dramatic and cinematic look but we are unable to model for anything else then the default sim. There are dozens of tweak tools and millions of settings after all. We do not see a difference in material properties for fuselage or wings.

 

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Hi Masterhawk and Mathijs,

 

Thank you very much for the suggestions. As the problem is most visible at night, I have done a couple of tests myself just changing the lighting setting of the aircraft with screenshots. The location/ time of day are the  same in both scenarios. 

 

The first screenshot shows the aircraft with the default P3D shaders and no tweaks applied at all:

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The second screenshot shows the aircraft where I have changed the 'Ambient/Diffuse moonlight ratio' setting to make it more realistic at night. 

 

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As you can see, the fuselage and tail both respond to the change in setting but the wings do not. I hope that makes it a bit clearer :) 

 

Best wishes,

 

Aaron

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  • Aerosoft

I can hardly see anything on that second image and that's because there IS hardly any information. 

 

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The first image has a little bit more color depth but I just can't see anything unexpected on the image.

 

 

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Of course it's a very dark image because I'm showing it at night where the problem is most visible (as I stated in my previous post). There is a clear difference between the way the aircraft reflects light between the two images. When changing the setting, only the fuselage responds to the change while the wings remain unchanged.

 

I'm not sure how to explain/show this any clearer..

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vor 2 Stunden , Aaron1 sagte:

Hi Masterhawk and Mathijs,

 

Thank you very much for the suggestions. As the problem is most visible at night, I have done a couple of tests myself just changing the lighting setting of the aircraft with screenshots. The location/ time of day are the  same in both scenarios. 

 

The first screenshot shows the aircraft with the default P3D shaders and no tweaks applied at all:

Please login to display this image.

 

The second screenshot shows the aircraft where I have changed the 'Ambient/Diffuse moonlight ratio' setting to make it more realistic at night. 

 

Please login to display this image.

 

As you can see, the fuselage and tail both respond to the change in setting but the wings do not. I hope that makes it a bit clearer :) 

 

Best wishes,

 

Aaron

Well, when someone would write "realistic green sky option" would you believe that in the end? How several times told, the makers of those re-shade plugins attempt to achieve a better look of the engine by alternating the distribution of brightness and colors. There are moments when this works pretty well,

this is a case where its not the case. Await no wonders, the light calculation in Prepar3D is still partly very old code, not comparable to modern day game engines. This will change when LM adapts to physically based shaders, which take physical formular to express material attributes. Currently we have still

an FSX portion in there basing on 1980s style phong shading. The tweaks only alter AFTER the image is rendered with the phong shader engine, so they curb around color and brightness values only. Also LM NOT supports those shading addons, often they cause problem to unexperienced users even.

So not await a "wonder machine", often the output can be WORSE than with the default shaders, which is for me clearly the case here.

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  • Aerosoft
1 hour ago, Aaron1 said:

Of course it's a very dark image because I'm showing it at night where the problem is most visible (as I stated in my previous post). There is a clear difference between the way the aircraft reflects light between the two images. When changing the setting, only the fuselage responds to the change while the wings remain unchanged.

 

I'm not sure how to explain/show this any clearer..

 

it might be visible on your screen (I think your screen might not be calibrated?) but I simply do not see it in the image. Compare your image to the one I attach. That's over the UK, spring at 03:30. Note how much more definition and color variation there is.

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Ok last attempt at explaining..

 

1) No tweaks to brightness: Fuselage and wing the same brightness

 

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2) Aircraft brightness reduced in PTA: Fuselage is darker, wings are the same brightness

 

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I would like to know why the wings do not get darker also.

 

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  • Aerosoft

Aaron, even though it VERY hard to see anything on your images, what we see is nothing that is unexpected if the shaders are whacked up. I seriously suggest by calibrating your monitor because I am sure the same image is shown very different om my calibrated system (with rebuild shaders) then on yours. 

 

When your monitor is calibrated (so we both see the same colors) and your shaders are rebuild I gladly discuss any possible error in the model. Right now we are talking in two different universes. What you see is not how we created it.

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vor 12 Stunden , Aaron1 sagte:

Ok last attempt at explaining..

 

1) No tweaks to brightness: Fuselage and wing the same brightness

 

Please login to display this image.

 

2) Aircraft brightness reduced in PTA: Fuselage is darker, wings are the same brightness

 

Please login to display this image.

 

I would like to know why the wings do not get darker also.

 

Rather easy to explain: You got two major components at this situation which light up your flightsim world: a direct light from the moon, and indirect light called Ambient. PTA or whatever addon you use, changed the proportion of brightness between the two. While a similar proportion of moonlight and ambientlight (the classic fill-light) creates

a rather homogenous situation, your addon reduces the ambient light intensity drastically. So surfaces not pointing directly into the direction of the moonlight (like the fuselage) get drastically darker. The upper surfaces like the wings get direct light, thus appear brighter. I repeat: Dont await that you get optimal results with those addons in any situation. The makers of the addons are not the sim programmers. They simply "hijack" the shading engine with graphics card tools, sometimes with rather good examples (that newzealand scenery in the screenshot thread looks rather good), but often also with unsatisfying results. I can understand people want to tweak their graphic to show more like modern game engines do with their conten, lovely saturated colors and contrast, but there we have constraints in the current engine still. I am sure LM is already, at least with some ideas about that topic. They not support any shader addons too for the known reasons. We got already a lot support requests for those shading addons, that people not like this or that. But clearly: The use of such shading addons is at your own responsibility. That is the same with the rest gaming industry: People can at home play around with this, but this is altering the original content in a way, the makers not intend.

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