Acceleration/SP2 problems

[ManuelL 71]

When you look int Phil Taylors blog

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2007...eta-posted.aspx

he writes the following with regards to the upcoming download version of SP2:

All:

The SP2 released as a separate web download has the same SP2 content that is in Acceleration.

No more, no less.

So it has the DX10 preview, no more. And no additional bug fixes.

I was really hoping ACES/Microsoft was in contact at least with commercial addon developers to collect all issues and work on a general fix. But to me (as uniformed user) it seems that they completely rely on graphics card and addon developers to provide fixes for all the bugs.

[jerm138 0]

it seems that they completely rely on graphics card and addon developers to provide fixes for all the bugs

That's the feeling I got when I mentioned the problem with the Nvidia 7-series cards and Acceleration.

(for those that don't know... if you have certain Nvidia 7-series cards and install Acceleration, FSX will crash on you every time you try to access a menu during flight in full-screen mode)

FSX OEM works fine with my video card, FSX SP1 works fine with my video card. FSX Acceleration/SP2 causes FSX Fatal Error crashes.

Here's the response Phil Taylor gave me:

Jerm:

I replied on avsim that I notified nVidia and they were looking into this. No ETA, though.

And again to somebody else later on:

I have already posted that there is a driver issue that affects 1)DX10 perf, 2)menu crashes, 3)AA/AF. We will just have to wait for nVidia to provide an update.

Those answers just doesn't sit right with me... the 7-series cards and drivers were out LONG before FSX Acceleration... so how can it be Nvidia's fault?

[Bernabie 0]

As they are the ones to update the drivers so that the video card will work properly with certain new types of games.

It's the same for every video card manufacturer, not only nVidia thus.

After all, nVidia especially released early a new beta driver for their 8 series card with regard to the new game Crysis.

Problem is that that particular beta driver and the beta one before that one do give me some problems with my screen that locks up in FSX. It seems to be a NVLDDMKM error problem. Don't know what it is or what caused it.

So I reinstalled the latest non-beta one, and everything seems to be going perfect for the moment again.

Are they at fault?

I don't think so, because every new driver is a bit of a wait and see if they succeeded in getting it right. And if not, then a new driver update will be forthcoming afterwards, and so on and on.

[jerm138 0]

There were several months between the last drivers, and the ones Nvidia released earlier in November.

So now the question is... how many more months is it going to be before we get another update that fixes all these problems with FSX Acceleration?

[Bernabie 0]

That's a question we can only ask them because it's not only for FSX that drivers are being updated.

Quite a lot other new games do come out, and the card needs to be working for them as well.

Like I said, even when the new beta drivers were especially released for Crysis, in the readme file you can see that also some fixes have been done towards FSX.

But these beta drives do lock up my screen, which eventually means that I need to reboot my entire system if I want to get rid of the problem.

Reinstalled the latest non-beta driver, and everything works again perfect. And it is said that the problems with DX10 are not related to the driver.

After all, with me works everything superbly with FSX Acceleration installed and thus SP2 and DX10. No problems at all, nor with my video card.

It are only some add-ons that create problems, and that is related to a compatability problem.

I don't know if it's true what I read somewhere, and if I understood it correctly, but it seems that Microsoft and Aces wants to create a whole new kind of FS, and therefore they need to get rid of this compatability issue, which in fact means dumping old add-ons from that moment on.

And that they in a certain way have done a bit already with SP2 and DX10. You can only get it back right when keep on using DX9 when you want to use the add-ons. Flying without them is no problem in DX10 with me, nor with add-ons that still do work.

Anyhow, we must admit that it says in FSX only preview DX10, meaning that it was not meant to be used all the time by the FSX flight simmers community.

Problem now is that we all want to get rid of the preview, and want to fly always with DX10 on, and with all our add-ons working perfectly as well. :wink:

[Manta 0]

(for those that don't know... if you have certain Nvidia 7-series cards and install Acceleration, FSX will crash on you every time you try to access a menu during flight in full-screen mode)

It happens to me all the time

[joerg 14]

Hello!

...and is there a solution already available? :shock:

Big THX, Joerg

[joerg 14]

Hello Aerosoft-Team!

THX for the patch!

Joerg

[ChrisB 11]

All these panel and transparency problems do not mean the end of all those planes.

Look at it this way - there are planes on the market that work in FSX:A so all it means is that the makers have to learn a new graphics technique. You can't totally blame the graphics cards - if that were so you would see only faulty transparencies - and as PC owners can have see-through and opaque on the same computer...

So, plane makers, adapt your painting techniques to ones that work.

One fix is simply converting the transparency bitmaps to plane old 32 bit 888-8, another is lightening the alphas. It can be done and although us painters can - it should be the makers who provide the "official" patches please.

[a320wolf 5]

I've read different messages on some forum trying to know why most add-ons (both sceneries and aircraft) have "bugs" with SP2 - missing textures for example - : Flight1 ATR72, Aerosoft EGLL 2008 Scenery, Do27X and so on....

Aerosoft Team and others only write: "It's a FSX bug" :cry:

But probably this is not true because - as Ace Developers said - if you try to install an add-on written following the FSX SDK code it will work without any issues!

But if we install sceneries and aircraft which are "simply" converted for FSX ...well forget the DX10 preview feature in FSX SP2 :?

So... are you sure it's a Microsoft bug ? :wink:

Bye, Max

[Kofi 0]

The Do-27 is an FS2004 port over and not a true FSX model.

Why do I say this :?: - The answer is in the screenshots. Since the cloud blocks the prop, it's a port over. Which is why it has problems in Accleration/SP2...

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

I've read different messages on some forum trying to know why most add-ons (both sceneries and aircraft) have "bugs" with SP2 - missing textures for example - : Flight1 ATR72, Aerosoft EGLL 2008 Scenery, Do27X and so on....

Aerosoft Team and others only write: "It's a FSX bug" :cry:

But probably this is not true because - as Ace Developers said - if you try to install an add-on written following the FSX SDK code it will work without any issues!

But if we install sceneries and aircraft which are "simply" converted for FSX ...well forget the DX10 preview feature in FSX SP2 :?

So... are you sure it's a Microsoft bug ? :wink:

Bye, Max

Yes, I would say so. All of these aircrafts were done (or converted) using the SDK that was out at that moment. And using that SDK they worked at that moment. MS changed the sim and now they do not work. As MS promised good backwards compatibility to FS2004 we certainly would expect good backwards compatibility from FSX SP2 to FSX SP1. However there were some surprises.

As Kofi states correctly, moving an aircraft from FS2004 to FSX without going all the way back to the source files can lead to problems. But often it is a case of money. Starting again from that far back means investing a hell of a lot of time and money, not always the best commercial decision.

[gwolb 0]

So you decide to make the commercial decision to sell products that you know do not work correctly with the latest version of FSX SP2, that does not sound like a good business decision!

[Garfie1d 0]

gwolb, you are right.

So if making your quite new product: Do-27 compatible with SP2 is "a case of

money" then time has come that I start thinking about how to spend MY

money.

I will definitly not spend my money for any further aerosoft products. This is

horrible customer support. I bought a product that should be compatible with

FS X. And I think that I can demand that you keep the product working with

FS X if MS decides to further develop the product by releasing service packs.

It's quite a cheap strategy to blame MS. I paid a lot of money for a piece of

software that does not work at advertised.

A very disappointed customer.

[Finn 873]

Try to turn the problem around !

How many times must the addon developers redo their products, just because ACES changes the way flight simulator deals with aspects like textures etc.

The addon companies actually try to look forward by producing addons for FSX, knowing that the road is full of stones.

Actually they could continue making products for FS2004 solely, since it is a finished (not bugfree) product, giving them much better cash.

The way the developement of FSX and it´s patches has gone has been a nightmare for both ACES, Addon developers and the customers alike. Aces promised a certain backward compability, wich with the release of SP2 not has been held. Don´t blame the addon developer for that!

Wothan

[PhilTaylor 0]

Content built for FSX, without resorting to unsupported techniques or relying on an incomplete port, does work in SP2.

Certainly FSX customers are going to be installing SP2. Does Aerosoft intend to support it, ever?

It is certainly fair to state your product does not support a patch version, but I question the appropriateness of coming out against a release from the platform provider.

[altstiff 28]

Content built for FSX, without resorting to unsupported techniques or relying on an incomplete port, does work in SP2.

Certainly FSX customers are going to be installing SP2. Does Aerosoft intend to support it, ever?

It is certainly fair to state your product does not support a patch version, but I question the appropriateness of coming out against a release from the platform provider.

How about a steady platform for guys like me who have spent a small fortune in addon's.

[Kofi 0]

How about a steady platform for guys like me who have spent a small fortune in addon's.

The big problem is that consumers wanted to have their cake and eat it. People wanted new "bells and whistles" yet wanted backwards compatibility also.

Tough hurdle to accomplish.

The only way to steady the platform is dump backwards compatibility. Thus if a product is made for Acceleration/SP2, no problems. If it's a FS2004 port-over, you're going to have problems...

[altstiff 28]

So, it's divided things into three now, FS9, FSX (original) and FSX SP2? :shock:

Ok quick question. I have the Acceleration pack. Do I need to download the SP2 or is the one in Acceleration the same?

:?

(EDIT, never mind I decided not to be lazy and read Phils Blog stating that in fact SP2 in Accel is the same as the download)

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

gwolb, you are right.

So if making your quite new product: Do-27 compatible with SP2 is "a case of

money" then time has come that I start thinking about how to spend MY

money.

I will definitly not spend my money for any further aerosoft products. This is

horrible customer support. I bought a product that should be compatible with

FS X. And I think that I can demand that you keep the product working with

FS X if MS decides to further develop the product by releasing service packs.

It's quite a cheap strategy to blame MS. I paid a lot of money for a piece of

software that does not work at advertised.

A very disappointed customer.

Let's get a few things straight. This is a development by Digital Aviation and the answers I gave were not mine but those from DA. In a case like this we can only ask the developers to support SP2, if they decide not to do so there is not a lot we can do except as a last measure remove the product from sales.

As far as we know we got two products that have problems with SP2 that we can't solve and where the developers have told us they are not currently trying to fix them. Those are the Do27 and German Airfields 9. When I got more information I will of course post that.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Content built for FSX, without resorting to unsupported techniques or relying on an incomplete port, does work in SP2.

Certainly FSX customers are going to be installing SP2. Does Aerosoft intend to support it, ever?

It is certainly fair to state your product does not support a patch version, but I question the appropriateness of coming out against a release from the platform provider.

Phil, the products that are created by Aerosoft are all compatible or will be made compatible. Some of the products we acquire from other developers are not compatible and when we ask for information we sometimes get an answer we (and you) don't like. So it is not a statement from Aerosoft but from the developers. The only step we can do is remove the products from sales should we decide that's the best thing to do. But not informing the customers about the point of view from the developers would be a very bad thing. They deserve this information.

However... I do not fully agree that speaking out against a release from the platform provider is not appropriate. If we feel that MS did not do a great job we will certainly say so. If you check my posts however (and I speak on behalf of Aerosoft) you will find I spoke very positive words about the SP2 release. I did comment on the releasing timing though, I did not understand why users who did not wish to buy the Xpack needed to wait so long for the update. The fact it was not officially released for many months caused us to give the SP2 update very low priority. The moment it was officially release we started to update and check.

I will again ask Digital Aviation about there plans for the Do-27 and will, as before, post there comments, as before.

[gwolb 0]

Since they are not trying to fix the D027 for SP2, can I get a re-fund on that purchase, and are not not trying to fix the other products either? Sounds like you should put a posting on all of your FSX products if they are SP2 compatible or not. I know I will not be buying any other addon products unless they say something about SP2 computability.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Small update, I just spoke to Hans Hartman (DA) and he promised to look again at the issues. He is not fully responsible for the incompatibilities but he sure has a strong voice that could help solve some of the issues.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Since they are not trying to fix the D027 for SP2, can I get a re-fund on that purchase, and are not not trying to fix the other products either? Sounds like you should put a posting on all of your FSX products if they are SP2 compatible or not. I know I will not be buying any other addon products unless they say something about SP2 computability.

When we are sure the products are not compatible and there are no plans for updates we will surely put that on the product pages. If you check the product pages of products that are releases since SP2 was out you will see we DO mention it, for example Lukla X, Venice X ect.

However, the products were sold as being compatible with the version of FS that was out at the moment of sale, it is hard to see a structure where we can promise compatibility with any update of FS we don't know about. The product page states the requirements and those are still as they were. If it would mention SP2 now we would re-fund you immediately. Right now I don't think this would be correct. I don't think we sold you something with incorrect information.

Let's just see what DA will do okay?