Navigation questions

[Eduard Gasull 258]

AS the sid and star are normally given by ATC and can change very easily. Imagine 2 situations.

 

1. I want to load the rout Automatic via FSX FLIGHT PLANER,  How can i add manually the points of the sid that is assigned to me and the follow the FSX(P3D) FLIGTH PLANER ROUTE?

 

2. hOW CAN I SET A DIRECT TO POINT?

 

Cheers!

[taguilo 12]

Hi Eduard,

 

For 1. you have different options:

 

A ) As ATC clearance is issued with the aircraft on the tarmac, before engine start, you could create different Flight Plans for the different SID waypoints, and eventually load the one that suits with ATC.

 

B )  If you prefer to work with a single Flight Plan, you can add the SID waypoints before take off, or even when airborne, just by shifting the INS positions related to FP waypoints.

 

For example, if you need to insert 2 SID waipoints -you have to do this manually - in INS slots 1 and 2, and resume FP track from INS slot 3, you need to load PF waypoint 1 into INS slot 3:

-Select the FPlan Computer popup, click on MAN and then on SEL button, which will now bright (figure INSex1.jpg ) 

-Click on INS arrows until you obtain 3 9 on the INS WPT display, then check that FPLAN WPTS now displays 01 07 (figure INSex2.jpg)

-Click on SEL button and then on AUTO to resume. Now you need to manually load coordinates of SID wpt1 and SID wpt2 into INS slots 1 and 2. 

 

For 2. you can click on WY PT CHG button (both WY PT CHG and INSERT light on), then click on 0 and the INS position you want to flight direct, then INSERT to confirm the change.

 

For example, if you are flying INS track 2 3 and you want to fly direct INS position 4, you need to select 0 4.

 

Please notice that when select a direct to route, you are actually creating a track between the current position of the aircraft (INS slot 0) at the moment you confirmed the route, and the destination waypoint; and that is the track the aircraft will end flying.

 

For example, in INSex3.jpg, you select a direct to wpt LONNI, and the aircraft starts a right turn. I guess you would naturally expect that the aircraft levels off when it reaches a direct heading to LONNI (INSex4.jpg), but instead, as the INS can only fly tracks, and the direct track was generated at the moment it was confirmed, the aircraft will remain in the turn and will level off when the track is captured, to fly the direct route (INSex5.jpg). That's the reason for the need to put the aircraft in an intercept heading to a wpt before selecting a direct to route.

 

Hope this helps

 

Tom

INS author

 

PS: figure numbers  are from top to bottom

 

 

 

 

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[Eduard Gasull 258]

41 minutes ago, taguilo said:

Hi Eduard,

 

For 1. you have different options:

 

A ) As ATC clearance is issued with the aircraft on the tarmac, before engine start, you could create different Flight Plans for the different SID waypoints, and eventually load the one that suits with ATC.

 

B )  If you prefer to work with a single Flight Plan, you can add the SID waypoints before take off, or even when airborne, just by shifting the INS positions related to FP waypoints.

 

For example, if you need to insert 2 SID waipoints -you have to do this manually - in INS slots 1 and 2, and resume FP track from INS slot 3, you need to load PF waypoint 1 into INS slot 3:

-Select the FPlan Computer popup, click on MAN and then on SEL button, which will now bright (figure INSex1.jpg ) 

-Click on INS arrows until you obtain 3 9 on the INS WPT display, then check that FPLAN WPTS now displays 01 07 (figure INSex2.jpg)

-Click on SEL button and then on AUTO to resume. Now you need to manually load coordinates of SID wpt1 and SID wpt2 into INS slots 1 and 2. 

 

For 2. you can click on WY PT CHG button (both WY PT CHG and INSERT light on), then click on 0 and the INS position you want to flight direct, then INSERT to confirm the change.

 

For example, if you are flying INS track 2 3 and you want to fly direct INS position 4, you need to select 0 4.

 

Please notice that when select a direct to route, you are actually creating a track between the current position of the aircraft (INS slot 0) at the moment you confirmed the route, and the destination waypoint; and that is the track the aircraft will end flying.

 

For example, in INSex3.jpg, you select a direct to wpt LONNI, and the aircraft starts a right turn. I guess you would naturally expect that the aircraft levels off when it reaches a direct heading to LONNI (INSex4.jpg), but instead, as the INS can only fly tracks, and the direct track was generated at the moment it was confirmed, the aircraft will remain in the turn and will level off when the track is captured, to fly the direct route (INSex5.jpg). That's the reason for the need to put the aircraft in an intercept heading to a wpt before selecting a direct to route.

 

Hope this helps

 

Tom

INS author

 

PS: figure numbers  are from top to bottom

 

 

 

 

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yes thanks, it helps a lot.

 

But I didn't understand why i need to select 39 (what represents 3 and what 9) and imagine for example that sids has more than 2 points for example 4, I would need to select 39 or wich number?

 

And if didn't understand wrong by doing this steps we are moving the whole flight plan the slots we want? for example if in my route (without sid) Lotos is the first point and then, for example, nexas is the second point etc to complete the route. . if sids has 2 waypoints, by doing these steps we are telling the computer that lotos is now the 3º point nexas 4º etc etc ? 

 

the direct to i understand correctly. But imagine that for example the ATC tell me directly to LOTOS and lotos is not a waypoint of my route or my approach sequence. What do i do? I need to set the coordinates of this waypoint  right?

 

thanks for your help i really appreciate it

[taguilo 12]

Ok,

 

But I didn't understand why i need to select 39 (what represents 3 and what 9) and imagine for example that sids has more than 2 points for example 4, I would need to select 39 or wich number?

 

3 corresponds to INS position 3, and 9 to position 9, so it includes positions 3-4-5-6-7-8-9.

If your SID includes more points, for example 4, you will have to select INS WYPTS 5 9 to load FLPLAN WYPTS 01 05 into those positions.

 

And if didn't understand wrong by doing this steps we are moving the whole flight plan the slots we want? for example if in my route (without sid) Lotos is the first point and then, for example, nexas is the second point etc to complete the route. . if sids has 2 waypoints, by doing these steps we are telling the computer that lotos is now the 3º point nexas 4º etc etc ? 

 

That is correct.

 

the direct to i understand correctly. But imagine that for example the ATC tell me directly to LOTOS and lotos is not a waypoint of my route or my approach sequence. What do i do? I need to set the coordinates of this waypoint  right?

 

Yes, you need to manually load LOTOS in any INS position that is not part of the current track.

 

Tom

[Eduard Gasull 258]

All set thanks so much Tom!

[Eduard Gasull 258]

@taguilo as you are the author of the INS Tom I what to ask you directly, please I don't want to disturb you, so please tell if I do.

 

it´s normal that the INS precision goes from 0 to 9 in just 10-20 minutes after departure? or I´m missing a step in the align?

 

because i wait for the 0 5 and ready to nav light, and I don't move the plane until 0 5 and INS set to NAV

 

 

I have another question for you:

 

I´m trying to recalibrate the INS whenever they reach 7. As far as I know, the INS precision its recommended to keep it in top 5 or bellow, that's correct?

 

Well, I always try to recalibrate the INS with no success.  Please correct me I´m doing something wrong

 

the steps I follow are:

 

1.First, find a VOR near to my route and I write to my log flight The altitude in feet, the latitude and longitude (position) and the frequency.

2. Then I go to the nav radio Knobs and tune the VOR frequency.

3. Then I configure the CDU in Waypoint mode. Find a passed waypoint from 1 to 9 (never a waypoint that I have not passed) so if I'm in the leg 2 3. I select waypoint 1.

4. I insert the position of the VOR on waypoint 1.

5. When it's done, I press 7 9 (right click) and insert again the VOR position then 3 9 (right click) and insert altitude of VOR ( first pressing 2) For example the VOR is on 1798 feet (so i insert the altitude  inserting 1 because the VOR is in 1798 feet) then i press 4 to insert the frequency, I insert the frequency for example 150.3

6. when it's done, I press waypoint change and select 1 (because is the waypoint that I set before ins step 3 and its the waypoint the INS should take to recalculate the position) (always with vor frequency in the nav radio)

7. I select the DKTS mode to see how is the recalibrating process, it's marking a random number in the left display and 9 5 on the right display, and I´m expecting this to go from 9 5 to 2-3 5 but....

 

With this steps is what I understood of how the recalibrating the INS should be. but I never succeed with the recalibration. Don't know if is it because I´m missing something, because it is a slow process and I should have more patience or what.

the results of that, after 2 hours of flying with 9 5 INS precision,  the DC-8 ends in what here in Spain we say " acabó yendose a cuenca" that is the same as: the DC-8  "gets the fu.. out" somewhere in a galaxy far far far away. and i need to continue my rout with conventional IFR navigation.

 

Thanks for your time a patience

Best whishes

 

Eduard

[taguilo 12]

1 hour ago, Eduard Gasull said:

it´s normal that the INS precision goes from 0 to 9 in just 10-20 minutes after departure? or I´m missing a step in the align?

 

 

I did a quick check and AI went from 0 to 4 in half an hour. For a dual INS setup (actually single INS command), I believe it's not normal. Probably it is using a (left out) triple mix logic, which is not implemented in the DC-8. I will revise the procedure tonight.

 

 

1 hour ago, Eduard Gasull said:

the steps I follow are:

 

1.First, find a VOR near to my route and I write to my log flight The altitude in feet, the latitude and longitude (position) and the frequency.

2. Then I go to the nav radio Knobs and tune the VOR frequency.

3. Then I configure the CDU in Waypoint mode. Find a passed waypoint from 1 to 9 (never a waypoint that I have not passed) so if I'm in the leg 2 3. I select waypoint 1.

4. I insert the position of the VOR on waypoint 1.

5. When it's done, I press 7 9 (right click) and insert again the VOR position then 3 9 (right click) and insert altitude of VOR ( first pressing 2) For example the VOR is on 1798 feet (so i insert the altitude  inserting 1 because the VOR is in 1798 feet) then i press 4 to insert the frequency, I insert the frequency for example 150.3

6. when it's done, I press waypoint change and select 1 (because is the waypoint that I set before ins step 3 and its the waypoint the INS should take to recalculate the position) (always with vor frequency in the nav radio)

7. I select the DKTS mode to see how is the recalibrating process, it's marking a random number in the left display and 9 5 on the right display, and I´m expecting this to go from 9 5 to 2-3 5 but....

 

1.- OK

2.- Ok

3 - Wrong. You don't have to use INS positions for DME stations.

4.- Wrong

5.- Ok. First select position 1 on the INS/DME pos selector. Then 7 9 to load VOR coordinates - Then 3 9 to load Altitude and frequency.

6.- Not exact. First position Data Selector on  DSRTK/STS. Type 4 ( right display changes to 000004), then press INSERT. Now PI number is 4, meaning DME aided navigation is enabled.

7. Follow the manual, page 25, from point 7.

 

Tom

 

 

[Eduard Gasull 258]

14 minutes ago, taguilo said:

 

I did a quick check and AI went from 0 to 4 in half an hour. For a dual INS setup (actually single INS command), I believe it's not normal. Probably it is using a (left out) triple mix logic, which is not implemented in the DC-8. I will revise the procedure tonight.

 

 

 

1.- OK

2.- Ok

3 - Wrong. You don't have to use INS positions for DME stations.

4.- Wrong

5.- Ok. First select position 1 on the INS/DME pos selector. Then 7 9 to load VOR coordinates - Then 3 9 to load Altitude and frequency.

6.- Not exact. First position Data Selector on  DSRTK/STS. Type 4 ( right display changes to 000004), then press INSERT. Now PI number is 4, meaning DME aided navigation is enabled.

7. Follow the manual, page 25, from point 7.

 

Tom

 

 

so if i understood ok: 

 

Steps 3 and 4 are not necessary. right?

 

step 5. I  didn´t understand well (sorry) on what do you might say, Firs select position 1 on the INS/DME pos selector. maybe because I'm confused about what is exactly INS/DEME pos selector, Do you mean the position mode of the CDU? so I do not have to do it in the waypoint mode but in the position mode. right?

 

step 6 . is to configure the CDU on DSRKT. then Type 4 then press insert and check the that now on the right display is not 9 5 but 9 4 right? 

 

step 7 I will try to follow and come back if I have any problems.

 

I really appreciated your help, again so many thanks for your time and patience Tom

 

Eduard

 

[taguilo 12]

5 minutes ago, Eduard Gasull said:

step 5. I  didn´t understand well (sorry) on what do you might say, Firs select position 1 on the INS/DME pos selector. maybe because I'm confused about what is exactly INS/DEME pos selector, Do you mean the position mode of the CDU? so I do not have to do it in the waypoint mode but in the position mode. right?

 

It's the WAYPOINT/DME SELECTOR (see page 14 of the manual)

 

6 minutes ago, Eduard Gasull said:

step 6 . is to configure the CDU on DSRKT. then Type 4 then press insert and check the that now on the right display is not 9 5 but 9 4 right? 

 

Correct. (0-9) 4 as the two rightmost digits on the display.

 

Tom