Mathijs Kok

Downvotes, upvotes etc

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If there is anything you want to share with us about the forum moderation, please do so here.

 

To be totally clear, we use up and downvotes because we believe the community has a self cleaning capacity. A forum is only as useful as the content and when it becomes easy to find the content that is actually helpful and constructive and to avoid having to read content that is simply not very useful a forum works a lot better.

 

And those are the ONLY conditions voting should be used.  They should never be used to make a point, punish somebody etc. That behavior is not accepted. Every downvote is listed and checked and when the moderation team does not agree with it we'll let the voter know and will correct the situation. If a person keeps on misusing the system we'll remove his voting rights.

 

The system is also very useful for us in another way, it allows us to find the users who are more helpful so we can invite them to beta's and show them with some free stuff that we care. The people with the highest  scores might even be asked to join our moderation team that has free access to all beta's and all our software. So it does pay to assist other people. That's part of the hobby, what I don't know you might know.

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Hard to believe no one has replied to you about this Mathijs.

 

This is my feeling on your system nothing else or an attack on you/Aerosoft or anyone. Just saying what your topic is about, feedback.

 

The system does not work as you hope and think it would work. Your "only conditions" are no used, your very topic on the new Airbus is a example 

How can anyone downvote a topic to inform people on what a coming project has? Its mindless and you give them the means to be just that, mindless.

"Every downvote is listed and checked and when the moderation team does not agree with it we'll let the voter know and will correct the situation. If a person keeps on misusing the system we'll remove his voting rights."

Why? Why goto all that time and trouble. Why not just do away with this abused button you give people?

This member seems very keen on your new Airbus but does not write English very well (I can talk ^^) but how can "you" justify them having a -47 rep? I Cannot see anything to justify a terrible rep.

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/profile/77197-dino1945/

 

Here Tom also got a 40% downvoted. Why? He needs a copy and paste to tell people to read the heading on every page. And gets down voted for reminding people? Really. I question the metal age of these people let alone give them a button to express how silly they are.

Then you say

"The system is also very useful for us in another way, it allows us to find the users who are more helpful so we can invite them to beta's and show them with some free stuff that we care. The people with the highest  scores might even be asked to join our moderation team that has free access to all beta's and all our software. So it does pay to assist other people. That's part of the hobby, what I don't know you might know."

 

Helpful? No, the people that give the most glowing praise to a given topic get upvoted the most. That does not make them the most helpful by a long shot. So you reward people with a glowing rep to beta test? Why? Your first priority should be to find members with a huge amount of time within an Airbus, that know the aircraft inside and out and the sim also very well. One of your beta tester did not even know AS had a radio weather reporting option and thought they needed to open AS every time they needed the weather!. Not good. Forum rep does nothing to show how "helpful" someone is. Not here or anywhere else.

 

You call them upvotes and downvotes not the best terms to use. I cannot think of another forums that users your downvote option. Just what is it?

Let's change the name for a second to better labels. Agree and disagree.

A forum is a place to discuss things if you simply agree with someone you can apply a "agree" nothing more needed but some with quote and do a +1. If someone disagrees and has a different POV. Then do what adults do, reply and express your different view. Discuss it, it's a forum to do just that.

Personally I would be happy if ALL forums did away with Agree/disagree upvotes/downvotes all together. They are just about a waste of time and the idea it shows how "helpful" people are is misleading at best. Take AVSIM forums. Goto the members list page and see who the most "helpful" people are? Don't because its a waste of time because the most helpful members are not people who help others out all the time it's people that enjoy sharing screenshots and posting them all the time. If your after a popular screenshot guy fill your boots. Knowing who is truly helpful on a forum is really for mods to see and take note of. Not a silly voting system that's fake.

 

I think your system is so open to misuse it's terrible, is there a way that really works? No. Perhaps the best way would be to have two buttons a vote to simple "agree/like" and one for being "helpful". If people disagree they can share their thoughts, its what a forum is for. Not for a member to end up with a -42 rep. 

 

Anyway that should be good for -100 votes. If I had posted a glowing agreement with you Mathijis I would be even more "helpful". Anyway I hope you see my point even if you totally disagree with it. That's fine I can disagree with my wife it does not mean I think anything less of her.:)

 

I hope you can take this as nothing more that constructive criticism because that's all it is. Nothing more nothing less. I just respectfully don't like your voting system. But it's your forums and your rules and ofc I respect that. But you did ask the question. :D But when people cannot even read the page there on from the top I question if someone points them to the top of that very page you should give them a button to disapprove of anyone pointing out there sort comings. Plus all the other ways they feel fit to use said button.

The best I can come up with is a "like/Agree" button and a "helpful" button. To show two very different things.

 

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If we remove the downvote option you will see there are more aggressive replies as people still want a way to show they strongly disagree. It also puts the moderators under a lot mores stress. If we temporary ban a user that has -27 on a post  it is clear that it's not just Aerosoft who disagrees. 

 

I do understand your point of view and ti a large degree I agree. Just not enough at this moment. I believe the community has a self cleaning ability.

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Thank you for reading it and taking it on board in the spirit it was written Mathijs. 

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Currently my content needs to be approved by a Moderator because I downvoted Tom a few times due to his attitude and how it came across in the forums.  When I asked about it I was reprimanded once again and my reputation was lowered.  I am not the only one who has said this, but I do seem to be the only one that will come out and say it publicly.  I'm not bitter.  I'm a grown man, 21 yr military veteran.  I just don't participate in these forums much anymore because every time I had a differing opinion I was punished for it.  

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Having different opinions is the standard in our world, not an exception. So there is nothing wrong with that. 

 

Voicing your opinion is fine, either in writing or like in this case in voting. 

 

But as I explained to you in December, there is something that can hardly raise a different opinion. And that is answering a question. Something like 1 + 1. The answer is not arguable, nor is there anything to disagree with. 

 

As I said multiple times in the forum and also in the communication with you: voicing your opinion in a discussion is ok and actually wanted. But down voting correct answers to questions is something else. You did that multiple times and that's the reason why I interfered. You will be able to find several posts of mine in discussions here in the forum, which got heavily down voted. That's ok, as in a discussion I do not expect everyone to share my opinion. 

 

But simple answers to simple questions is something else. 

 

I explained that to you very politely and as I wrote I wished you would understand the difference (which I explained above again). 

 

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