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PineappleWizard

1.0.3.0. Some good improvements, but still broken

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I'll start off by saying that there are indeed somethings that are fixed, such as waypoint sequencing in the FMS, when loading an arrival and approach, everything appears as it should in the correct order. I can now load in simbrief flightplans with no issues. Unfortunately the direct to function still only managed to work only about 2 out of 10 times I tried it. Yes I am on version 1.0.3.0, I checked the ASCRJ.dll just to be sure. Sometimes the plane had issues capturing the course, it would fly aggressive course corrections left and right until it settled finally. Other times it would just ignore the direct to and just continue flying straight. Other times it would initiate the turn towards the waypoint, but would just keep turning indefinitely. I found that going direct to waypoints was much more reliable by going into the legs page and moving the waypoint I wanted to the current active (purple) leg like one does in Boeing aircraft. I still can't manage to complete the test flight I've used from KMSP to KMDW. This aircraft is utterly incapable of flying an RNAV approach, especially one that has any turns.

 

Please go fly RNAV approaches like the RNAV Y 13C at KMDW, RNAV 12 at KLGB and either RNAV 13R or 31L approach at KPSP. Just find as many as you can and you will see that the airplane simply cannot follow it to the final approach course. It does draw it correctly on the display, but the autopilot fails to turn. I'm willing to record a video or two of this going on but after that I am done beta testing this airplane over and over again.

A few other notes. While descending in SPEED mode, the autopilot often oscillates up and down nearly 10 degrees total around the pitch axis while also being nearly +/-20kts off the selected speed at times, pretty annoying, and definitely doesn't occur in any aircraft I've flown IRL. Even the FLC mode on a C172 G1000 works more reliably. It does work much better in climb however. Sometimes I find the autopilot levels off about 100-200ft above the selected altitude.

Despite all this, you can now reliably manage a flight from A to B using only ILS approaches with no issues.

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I second the above.  Had the same type of issues as the OP reports.  Will this aircraft ever get truly fixed?

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Same here. DTO function is sketchy. Tries to do the Default FSX GPS direct to the course line instead of the waypoint. On a positive not, Lnav course seems to be working well.

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15 hours ago, XFalcon750 said:

 

 

Please go fly RNAV approaches like the RNAV Y 13C at KMDW, RNAV 12 at KLGB and either RNAV 13R or 31L approach at KPSP. Just find as many as you can and you will see that the airplane simply cannot follow it to the final approach course. It does draw it correctly on the display, but the autopilot fails to turn. I'm willing to record a video or two of this going on but after that I am done beta testing this airplane over and over again.

 

The approaches you listed are all RNP RNAV approaches. The real CRJ is not capable of flying RNP approaches - The Collins Proline 4 FMS predates RNP by many years.

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1 hour ago, JRBarrett said:

The approaches you listed are all RNP RNAV approaches. The real CRJ is not capable of flying RNP approaches - The Collins Proline 4 FMS predates RNP by many years.

Huh, that does make a lot of sense now that I think about it. Feel kind of stupid now hah! Anyway, I knew at least you couldn't pick up the vertical guidance from these approaches in the CRJ, but I assumed the aircraft could still fly the lateral track regardless. So barring that, the CRJ is still in a much better place than before this update. I'll do another few test flights with it, but I think that direct to is having some issues still.

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Having the same issues with DIR INTC, tracking in NAV mode and some of the departures in FMS are showing up in MFD weird

 

CRJ-900 KMSP 30R WLSTN7 GRB YYZ ROC RKA SWEDE CANAN STELA1 KBDL

 

P3D v4.1

 

CRJ1.jpg

CRJ2.jpg

CRJ3.jpg

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100% true as stated above.

 

I just did a flight from PHX-KSAF and yes its still broken for sure... While now it does follow the enroute portion of the flight RNAV SIDS are still completely broken.  Landing in KSAF RNAV 20 the FMS sequenced on downwind (with INHIBIT selected on the legs page) to the missed approach and I couldn't get the approach to load again, it always just went to the missed approach.  While yes the plane is flyable, the advanced navigation functions of the aircraft are totally broken.  Maybe its time to do some thing like TFDI did and bring in a 3rd party to help you get this right, because right now what your doing is not working.

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So the big question is, is there a bug or is the problem due to RNP RNAV approaches which someone stated above, the CRJ cannot fly. 

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I'm pretty sure it can fly RNP RNAV approaches, if the pilot flying them adjusts the speed and sticks to the altitude profile. Speed is especially important on STARs and approaches because often the legs between the waypoints are just too short to be properly tracked if you go 250 knots.

DIR TO calculates the direct line from a point a bit ahead of the aircraft so that it won't overshoot when turning. That's not my idea. It came from a (former) CRJ pilot, so I assume it's correct.

 

vor 2 Stunden , e190attcs sagte:

Maybe its time to do some thing like TFDI did and bring in a 3rd party to help you get this right, because right now what your doing is not working.

No. What I did is working. What is not working is what didn't come up during testing... and I remember quite a few people who put pressure on us to release the update asap. I suggest that you say thanks to them for cutting testing short.

 

I'll look into all the procedures listed here and DIR TO as well. Although the screenshots above look more like an issue with an additional line that's drawn than the calculation itself.

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36 minutes ago, Hans Hartmann said:

I'm pretty sure it can fly RNP RNAV approaches, if the pilot flying them adjusts the speed and sticks to the altitude profile. Speed is especially important on STARs and approaches because often the legs between the waypoints are just too short to be properly tracked if you go 250 knots.

DIR TO calculates the direct line from a point a bit ahead of the aircraft so that it won't overshoot when turning. That's not my idea. It came from a (former) CRJ pilot, so I assume it's correct.

 

No. What I did is working. What is not working is what didn't come up during testing... and I remember quite a few people who put pressure on us to release the update asap. I suggest that you say thanks to them for cutting testing short.

 

I'll look into all the procedures listed here and DIR TO as well. Although the screenshots above look more like an issue with an additional line that's drawn than the calculation itself.

 

Han's I am a "former" CRJ pilot (now most of the 6,000hrs I have on it is on the -200 model) I flew about 500hrs on the -900 before moving on to much greener pastures.

1. None of the -200/900s (that I flew) could fly RNP or LNAV/VNAV approaches because they didn't any vertical managed descent modes, only NAV. Without some sort of managed descent ie. VNAV it can't fly an RNP or LNAV/VNAV RNAV approach, because you are now stepping into precision like RNAV approaches.  Now again that's the models I flew. I've never heard of a CRJ that has a VNAV function, but I'm far removed from the CRJ now, and flying the French made wide-body so they could be out there now. 

2. I didn't use the DIR TO feature very often, but I do not remember it putting a point slightly ahead of the aircraft, but its been 6 years since I've been in the airplane.

3. I know how to manage my speed on an RNAV approach as I have hundreds of RNAV(RNP) and RNAV approaches, and the CRJ here is not holding the course, and as I said the RNAV approaches I flew in P3D anytime you fly past the runway (basically a downwind) it sequences (even in INHBIT) and you cant get the approach back even reloading it, it just goes right into the missed approach segment.

 

 

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1. The latest CRJ-900 and -1000 have an optional(?) coupled VNAV, but still without autothrottle, so speed control is still up to the pilot with that. If that's enough to "officially" fly RNP, I do not know, but I guess it was introduced for that.

2. I asked a current CRJ captain for a video to get a definitive answer

3. I think I know what the reason is. I noticed something similar when a 90 degree turn after a DME arc led on the the final approach with several waypoints in very short order so it was impossible to get back on track before the next waypoint was passed. In that case, it the current waypoint would jump 1 ahead (but not right to the Missed Approach - I never experienced that). I put this problem on my list then because I was running out of time.

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2 hours ago, Hans Hartmann said:

No. What I did is working. What is not working is what didn't come up during testing... and I remember quite a few people who put pressure on us to release the update asap. I suggest that you say thanks to them for cutting testing short.

 

 

So which update was rushed because it was over two months and than weeks before we got to this point and regardless of the progress there is still bugs showing up regardless of how much effort is put into the plane. I don't blame those few people. All the testing in the world is not going to find all the bugs. 

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2 hours ago, Hans Hartmann said:

3. I think I know what the reason is. I noticed something similar when a 90 degree turn after a DME arc led on the the final approach with several waypoints in very short order so it was impossible to get back on track before the next waypoint was passed. In that case, it the current waypoint would jump 1 ahead (but not right to the Missed Approach - I never experienced that). I put this problem on my list then because I was running out of time.

 

This is something I noticed while conducting these approaches. It would often skip ahead to the waypoint beyond you are currently flying to before you even pass it. Also it may be worth mentioning I flew these approaches at the prescribed speed and altitudes, even at slower speeds fully configured. Glad you are getting to the bottom of this though, I imagine its very stressful for you. Best of luck.

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13 hours ago, Hans Hartmann said:

1. The latest CRJ-900 and -1000 have an optional(?) coupled VNAV, but still without autothrottle, so speed control is still up to the pilot with that. If that's enough to "officially" fly RNP, I do not know, but I guess it was introduced for that.

2. I asked a current CRJ captain for a video to get a definitive answer

3. I think I know what the reason is. I noticed something similar when a 90 degree turn after a DME arc led on the the final approach with several waypoints in very short order so it was impossible to get back on track before the next waypoint was passed. In that case, it the current waypoint would jump 1 ahead (but not right to the Missed Approach - I never experienced that). I put this problem on my list then because I was running out of time.

 

1. Its very possible and I would assume they would be updating the aircraft software to fly RNP and LNAV/VNAV approaches as they are the future of instrument approaches.  I don't believe auto thrust is a requirement for an RNP approach, just that the aircraft is capable of RNP0.3 and has a vertical NAV function and of course the company is approved to conduct RNP approaches.

2. Good idea, I don't recall seeing that, but the new next gen models could do that.

3. I do remember that if you didn't put the FMS into INHIBIT mode on the legs page, and flew throw the missed approach area it would start to sequence. The sequencing isn't really the issue, its that I cant get the approach to load again after that.  If flying an ILS its not really an issue, but it makes its not possible to fly an RNAV approach if the FMS will not accept loading the approach again.  I even loaded another separate approach, and then loaded my original approach again and it still sequenced to the missed approach.  Its just a bug that I'm sure you can get to the bottom of.

 

The plane has great potential, and I'm looking forward to more updates.

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Here in Norway Wideroe has upgraded even their old DH8-100 series with P-RNAV approach capability since they operate on so many non-precision approach aerodromes in often adverse weather. If Bombardier can fix up the old turbopros as such, I'm sure they can do the old turbofans as well.

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Yep, direct to and basic flying NAV still is hinky as hell.  I was doing the following 

IDA GWEDO FRNCH3 

 

First off, could not capture the Direct to GWEDO.  I disconnect the NAV and did Direct to the next waypoint and enabled NAV and the aircraft just started turning right in a never ending right hand turn.  I then hand flew it back on to the path.   Tried to enable again NAV and it held a straight line for some time but then started drifting off just as if NAV was not even enabled.  Also, the FMS path indicator shows the aircraft is way left of the path even though the aircraft was on the path.  

 

At this point, I'm going to just have to put her in the hangar and come back much later.  So sad cause I was so excited.  

 

Eric

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DIR-TO is completely broken for me. Results in endless left turns. I never used to have this bad of navigation problems until the update was released that was supposed to fix the problems... Really beginning to lose patience with this aircraft. I am very frustrated.

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Flew KABE-KLGA just now and the aircraft suddenly turned right in NAV mode and would not stop until I corrected it by using HDG. NAV mode was useless for most of the flight as I couldn't fly straight between waypoints. When capturing the localizer for runway 22 at KLGA the aircraft seemed fine until the needle centered, then it made another hard right turn and had to be hand flown the rest of the way in. I had the correct course, frequency, heading and APPR mode set. This has been happening to me since this aircraft first came out. The flight director also is useless on an ILS approach as it just tells me to turn hard left, even when I am perfectly placed on the localizer and glide slope. I think I am done with this aircraft for a while. Really disappointing. 

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On 12/15/2017 at 8:54 AM, e190attcs said:

 

1. Its very possible and I would assume they would be updating the aircraft software to fly RNP and LNAV/VNAV approaches as they are the future of instrument approaches.  I don't believe auto thrust is a requirement for an RNP approach, just that the aircraft is capable of RNP0.3 and has a vertical NAV function and of course the company is approved to conduct RNP approaches.

 

It requires a hardware upgrade from Collins Proline 4 (which is the default avionics system in all CRJs) to Proline 21.

 

There is an upgrade path to retrofit Proline 21 in a CRJ, but I’m not sure which, (if any) airlines have done so. It would be quite expensive, and would involve extended downtime, as there is a lot of equipment changes and extensive re-wiring required.

 

Proline 4 is an early 1990’s design, and the FMS operating software is hard-coded into NVRAM chips on the FMS circuit cards. It can’t be updated or changed in the field, as is the case with more modern systems like the Honeywell Primus Epic which can indeed be updated with new operating software quite easily.

 

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After 2 good flights with the newest updates, I just had my first encounter with the aircraft going off course. It seemed to occur when the aircraft tried to directly capture a waypoint at the very last minute but just continued turning off course.

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vor 16 Stunden , Caribpilot sagte:

After 2 good flights with the newest updates, I just had my first encounter with the aircraft going off course. It seemed to occur when the aircraft tried to directly capture a waypoint at the very last minute but just continued turning off course.

OK. Thanks for this information. I'll give this a try. To be honest, I wasn't able to reproduce the direct-to issue yet. May be this helps.

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HSI is full scale deflected to the left while the AP tracks the MFD. Other times the AP tracks the HSI making the airplane fly in loops. Direct to is still broken. This version is much worse than the previous.

 

I'll never trust another Aerosoft product again, this is unacceptable. 

AS_CRJ700_LNAV.png

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2018-1-1_17-0-24-543.thumb.jpg.fe9b909ea1e18f79dcfb58d40cdc9e6a.jpgmine does the same thing...this happens every time I fly. How this doesn't turn up in beta testing is beyond me. 

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