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CRJisBAE

CRJ Real World Tips/Techniques

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vor 9 Stunden , Tim.S sagte:

How do you generally manage a descent. Speeds, thrust settings, autopilot modes etc.

 

....

It seemed to descend really rapidly, with an agressive nose down attitude, yet was still bleeding off speed and couldnt maintain what was set on the mcp. Speed brakes were stowed. 

 

A little hint. The following is found in the tutorial on your HDD :-) Its even better if you do it with the tutorial flight Aerosoft gave you. o hard feelings pls.

I think 1.5 DIN a4 pages handle this very subject in the tutorial. Manage the descent.
 

Zitieren

As soon as the CRJ is established in cruise flight you already need to prepare the descent into Monterey. Just a quick note on estimating the top of descent (the point along your route when you actually want to start the descent). Currently there are two options available: check the Quick Reference Handbook, QRH, for the descent chart and derive the needed distance in reference to your current gross-weight and cruise altitude. In case you don’t have the QRH handy, there is a very basic rule of thumb: remove the last three digits of your current altitude (expressed in thousands of feet), multiply the resulting value by three and there is the distance the aircraft covers during descent. Here is an example: cruising altitude is 30,000 feet. Step one, remove last three digits 30,000 → 30. Step 2: multiply by three: 30 x 3 = 90 miles. During descent please follow the standard profile: M0.74 / 290 kts / 250 kts. Start your descent in SPD mode with M0.74 until you pass 290 kts then switch to 290 kts (SPD mode stays active) and after passing 10,000ft descend with 250 kts. The autopilot will adjust the descent rate automatically – in case you need to adjust use the throttle or even spoiler. You’ll start the descent when you are 25 miles out ROBIE waypoint. We aim to reach Salinas SNS VOR (117.30 MHz) at 8,200ft altitude with 190 kts and flaps 8. Reset the altitude to 10,000ft (even though we will descend to 8,200, setting the altitude to 10,000ft prevents you from exceeding 250 knots below 10,000 ft), set the IAS selector to 290 knots and slowly pull back the throttles to approximately 65% N1. Be careful with flights at higher altitudes and start descending in Mach mode (0.74) first. Now monitor the descent rate and adjust with the throttle – by applying thrust you reduce your descent rate and by reducing thrust you increase your descent rate. The CRJ’s wing area isn’t that big compared to other aircraft so expect the CRJ to descend fast when applying little thrust. When you are descending through 25,000ft tune COM1 to 119,250 MHz to check Monterey’s ATIS. In case you are using the predefined weather this step is not that important but otherwise you need some information provided by the ATIS to determine your landing runway and the local atmospheric pressure to adjust your altimeter when you are descending through transition altitude (18,000ft in the US). Always monitor your altitude and the remaining distance to adjust your thrust setting and hence the descent rate. When you are descending through 20.000ft reduce thrust to approx. 50% N1. As soon as the CRJ is established in descent, proceed with the descent checklist. This checklist needs to be completed before descending through 18,000ft.

As soon as you are approaching 10,000ft the autopilot will switch to altitude capture mode (indicated by flashing ALTS on the PFD). Now you can safely readjust the altitude as the altitude to be captured is already saved in the autopilot and any adjustments to the altitude selector are ignored. Please dial in 8,200ft, readjust the speed setting to 250 knots and reduce thrust to idle (the FADEC will automatically regulate N1 so that a minimum N1 is maintained and oil pressure keeps stable). As soon as the CRJ is about to pass through 250 knots, activate the speed mode again and proceed descending to 8,200ft. Prepare for the approach and landing and review the approach charts and following description on the sequence of events. The following graphic shows the usual sequence of events during an ILS approach. Please take your time (and pause the flight simulator) to review the graphic and read the following explanations, as well as taking your time to go through the checklists at each segment. In case you feel more confident handling the CRJ you may of course not make use of the pause function – we’d recommend it for the first flight though.

As mentioned earlier, we aim to pass Salinas SNS VOR at 8,200ft with 190 knots and flaps 8. So please aim to reach 8,200ft approx. 5-10 miles before reaching Salinas SNS VOR. As soon as the CRJ captured altitude do not touch the throttles and let the aircraft slow down. When passing 210 knots extend the flaps to 1 and let the aircraft slow down further. When the CRJ approaches 190 knots extend flaps to 8 and increase thrust to approx. 70% N1 to maintain 190 knots. After passing Salinas SNS VOR and when established on your way to SHOEY waypoint, please dial in 2,500ft. Then activate SPD mode again and reduce throttle to idle thrust to descend with 190 kts. On your way you will pass north of KMRY – so take a look out your left window to familiarize with the airport and surrounding. The CRJ should capture 2,500ft before reaching SHOEY waypoint (approximately over the coast). Let it slow down to 170 knots and extend the flaps to 20. As the turn to intercept the ILS will be very sharp please press the HDG mode button to synchronize the heading bug with the current heading (approx. 267°). Furthermore, dial in an altitude of 1,700ft and make sure the bearing pointers are set to I-MRY ILS and MR NDB. Roughly 1,5 miles before reaching SHOEY waypoint select heading 110° - the CRJ Is going into a steep left turn so monitor the speed closely and apply thrust of necessary to prevent a stall. As soon as the CRJ is established after the turn, select VS (vertical speed) mode and use the thumb dial to dial in a sink rate of 1,000 feet per minute (fpm – indicated as “-1,000”) and reduce thrust to idle. As the CRJ captures 1,700ft extend the flaps to 30 and the gear. Please establish a speed of 150 kts, arm the APP (approach) mode and go through the Before Landing Checklist.


I understand the topic is to ask realworld Pilot, as he offered, about the ways they do. But it sounds more you ask about the basic so maybe this helps you more than asking the same the Tut says in various questions :-).

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6 minutes ago, Senchay said:

 

A little hint. The following is found in the tutorial on your HDD :-) Its even better if you do it with the tutorial flight Aerosoft gave you. o hard feelings pls.

I think 1.5 DIN a4 pages handle this very subject in the tutorial. Manage the descent.
 


I understand the topic is to ask realworld Pilot, as he offered, about the ways they do. But it sounds more you ask about the basic so maybe this helps you more than asking the same the Tut says in various questions :-).

 

The vertical mode for the autopilot described there is not very commonly used in real life, so I would say the initial question was a valid one. Descending in V/S using some basic descent planning rules of thumb is much more reliable and can lead to some very satisfying idle-descents until final ;).

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In regards to the panel state issue, you can save a user defined state with the FMS, but it can't be selected as a default state nor can it be selected via Dave.

 

It would be great if we could select a user state as default-- that way we could create whatever long turn/ short turn variation we want. 

 

Don

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1 hour ago, Brendan154 said:

 

Only up to 290 in the climb? Never done a CDO I see :lol:

 

 

EASA FTL here, and a pretty decent crewplanning department ;) . Very few overnights, so home nearly every night and shortest overnight rest 10 hours. Doing 280/.77 auto switchover is fast enough for me most of the time :D. Also, arrivals and departures are a bit different here then in the US as far as I know, so different flying styles. I come from an all manual everything turboprop so I don't bother too much with the FMS advisory VNAV, I have my own VNAV baked in and it's usually more flexible and takes shortcuts and speed reductions into account :P .

 

Edit: Speaking about those speeds, if you want to skip at least one button push (ask any pilot, workload management is important :P )... Just set 280KIAS after climbing through 10.000 and forget about it. At switchover point of FL316/31.600ft that will translate into ~M.77 which will let you climb up to FL410 if weight and atmospheric conditions allow. 

 

Some other things, you can use the fix page as reminders. For example set your destination airport or a beacon near it in the fix page, with a distance to cross of 30nm and you have a good aiming point to be at speed 250KIAS and 10.000ft/FL100. Same can be done for a visual approach aiming point, just make it 4nm and 1200ft AGL. 

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13 minutes ago, Propane said:

 

EASA FTL here, and a pretty decent crewplanning department ;) . Very few overnights, so home nearly every night and shortest overnight rest 10 hours. Doing 280/.77 auto switchover is fast enough for me most of the time :D. Also, arrivals and departures are a bit different here then in the US as far as I know, so different flying styles. I come from an all manual everything turboprop so I don't bother too much with the FMS advisory VNAV, I have my own VNAV baked in and it's usually more flexible and takes shortcuts and speed reductions into account :P .

 

When you're on duty all night and are getting 4 hours of sleep at the hotel, those extra 30 knots do wonders for morale. 

 

Until NY approach turns you 30° degrees off course and slows you to 250 at FL220 for spacing. 

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vor 2 Stunden , Brendan154 sagte:

We just use VS and the DIR INTC page of the FMS for our descents. If people are curious I'll write up exactly how we do that. 

 

I certainly am !!

 

Great thread and info.

 

Mike

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1 hour ago, Propane said:

Edit: Speaking about those speeds, if you want to skip at least one button push (ask any pilot, workload management is important :P )... Just set 280KIAS after climbing through 10.000 and forget about it. At switchover point of FL316/31.600ft that will translate into ~M.77 which will let you climb up to FL410 if weight and atmospheric conditions allow. 

 

But... but... then my speed bug isn't perfectly synchronized to M.77.

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I have already completed several flights between ASE DEN and real weather. In KDEN is planned an RNAV Y Approach Rwy 35L  with several descend sections. Since the TOD does not appear or is too late, ich must descend the first leg with VS and green circle control. After passing TOD (do not know what this is then based), the snowflake shows obviously not really plausible values.

So i fly almost completely with VS and orientation on the green circle.

Is certainly not perfect, also makes a lot of work, but i've still landed them safely.

 

Is this way as an alternative to a real possibility? An further question, in published papers i can see, that at beginn of final approach the airplane is full configurated for an NPA. In DEN i would have to full configurated over CELBI, means Vapp, landing flaps.?!

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On 8/5/2017 at 6:25 AM, Astro_Liam said:

i was wondering the same. I then remembered I saw an episode of Air Crash/Mayday where one crash was caused by a reverser being deployed mid flight. Maybe it has something to do with that

You got it. To protect against inadvertent reverser deployments. And they cannot be inadvertently be deployed when they aren't armed. :)

So as soon as they're not needed, (i.e. airborne, after takeoff), they are disarmed. And then re armed again, during the landing checklist. 

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3 hours ago, Brendan154 said:

If any of that needs clarification, I will be happy to help.

 

Brendan,

 

I don't post much, but that has to be one of the most informative posts I've read in quite a long time.  So I felt it necessary to chime in and give a big thank you for taking the time to write it out.

 

Thanks,

Rob

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vor 20 Stunden , Brendan154 sagte:

If any of that needs clarification, I will be happy to help.

 

big thanks for the very detailed info and explanation.  Learning such things is what flight simulation is all about for me. Not just pressing VNAV buttons in a Boebus and watch :)

 

Mike

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Great thread! Could you describe the "flows" from before entering the active runway until after passing 10 000?

Jonas

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Before line up:

 

Lights and Strobes on

Crossflow to Manual and no active crossflow going on

Switch continous ignition and anti-ice on as required

Advise cabin crew (quick chime with the seatbelt sign for example)

Check the EICAS to make sure TO CONFIG OK message is displayed and all messages are normal or related to a known, allowed issue

 

TO:

 

Set flight director to TO / TO mode

Advance thrust levers to about vertical position to make sure both engines are stabilized (prevent asymmetric thrust)

Set TO thrust (TOGA detent)

Rotate at Vr with approx. 3 degrees per second up to 10 degrees then follow FD

Positive climb, gear up, SPD mode and NAV mode (or other modes if you so prefer)

Earliest at 600' AGL switch on autopilot

 

When ready, set CLB thrust, clean up the aircraft according to schedule. Set speed 210 while cleaning up. 

After cleaning up, speed 250 KIAS or higher if ATC approves (fairly common in EU).

When passing transition altitude set standard and use it as a trigger for the climb check (again, mostly EU, we have varying transition altitudes and much lower than in the US). 

Passing 10.000/FL100 accelerate to 290 KIAS, lights off, seatbelt sign auto etc. Sit back, relax, get crewmeal and coffee.

 

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1 hour ago, Propane said:

 

Set flight director to TO / TO mode

 

 

 

Thanks!

Perhaps I've lost my reading skills during vacation, but I can't figure out how to set TO/TO on the FD. Also curious on how to enable ET on the clocks, is it just a single click on ET?

 

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1 hour ago, JowlStc said:

 

Thanks!

Perhaps I've lost my reading skills during vacation, but I can't figure out how to set TO/TO on the FD. Also curious on how to enable ET on the clocks, is it just a single click on ET?

 

TO.thumb.jpg.70e34de17c080f213a014d21c9339979.jpg

 

The TOGA button is location on the throttle knobs. Also, regarding the functions of the Chronometer, Refer to page 69 in Pt. 2 of the AOM should provide the answers you seek.

 

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1 hour ago, Propane said:  

Set flight director to TO / TO mode

 

 

 

Thanks!

Perhaps I've lost my reading skills during vacation, but I can't figure out how to set TO/TO on the FD. Also curious on how to enable ET on the clocks, is it just a single click on ET?

 

 

For the ET, click on the ET button once. It will go into a standby mode and start calculating elapsed time on takeoff when the main wheels leave the ground.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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11 minutes ago, Chris Smith said:

This is an awesome thread! What sorts of cruise machs do you use in the real world? 

 

.77 Mach for normal flights. 

 

.80 sometimes into certain stations.

 

.82 if we have spare gas/running really late/go home day. 

 

300kts indicated if you never make it to Mach numbers. 

 

Just for fun:

Climb: 250/290/.74

Highspeed Climb: 250/320/.77

Descent: .77 (or cruise mach)/290

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1 minute ago, Brendan154 said:

 

.80 sometimes into certain stations.

 

.82 if we have spare gas/running really late/go home day. 

 

 

  • What certain stations are those? LOL 
  • And for your second point, the .82 is really when you are running late right? When is spare gas a problem?! LOL

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Definitely some informative posts on managing descents and approaches, thanks CRJisBAE and Brendan154!

 

The concern about thrust inadvertent thrust reverser deployment sorta makes sense, though it seems like other aircraft use weight on wheels sensors for that safety check?

 

Some other things that have come to mind...

 

- Do you commonly use flex / derated thrust on takeoff?  If so, I assume those numbers are generated for you from dispatch or an EFB application (not like a rule of thumb or something)?

- Are ground power / air used often?  Or might you just stay on APU for a short turn / at an out station?

- Other than system failures, is there any reason that manual bleed management would be used?

- what do typical CoG numbers look like?

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On 8/5/2017 at 1:39 PM, CRJisBAE said:

There are times where I don't feel like riding the V/S knob the whole way down the descent so instead I'll just slow to the assigned speed and use SPEED mode to come down. There are no specific thrust settings I use when I do this. If I want a shallow descent, I pull them back a little. The more steep of a descent I want, the more I pull the thrust levers back. As with any descent in the CRJ, make sure you get that power back in once you level off!)

 

A little trick you can do for those times where ATC leaves you way high and dry and you need to get down quickly. 320-330kts (250kts below 10), SPEED mode, thrust idle, speedbrakes full out, then hold on tight (lol). (Again...make sure you stow the speedbrakes and get the power back in on the level off! Otherwise you will experience CRJ fun times!)

 

I don't know whether to be happy or concerned that my quick duct-tape patch fix way of descending the CRJ is how they do it IRL. I thought it would have a bit more.., finesse and planning lol.

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2 hours ago, imemyself said:

Definitely some informative posts on managing descents and approaches, thanks CRJisBAE and Brendan154!

 

The concern about thrust inadvertent thrust reverser deployment sorta makes sense, though it seems like other aircraft use weight on wheels sensors for that safety check?

 

Some other things that have come to mind...

 

- Do you commonly use flex / derated thrust on takeoff?  If so, I assume those numbers are generated for you from dispatch or an EFB application (not like a rule of thumb or something)?

- Are ground power / air used often?  Or might you just stay on APU for a short turn / at an out station?

- Other than system failures, is there any reason that manual bleed management would be used?

- what do typical CoG numbers look like?

 

In order here...

 

Yes, we Flex basically all the time. We won't flex if:

Anti Skip Inop

Anti Ice Required for T/O

Contamined Runway

Downdrafts/Windshear

 

We will turn off the APU if they connect ground power on a turn. Very rarely will we see ground air on a turn. If we think we need the APU to keep the cabin at a reasonable temp, it stays on. The APU is

a single stage centrifugal compressor; it's much more simple and durable than the turbines in the engines and can be

started and stopped with greater frequency without the worry of damage. In fact, running the APU for long periods of time is actually more damaging than periodic shut down and restarts. 

 

[random bonus aside]

APU startup and shutdown procedure:

 

Press PWR FUEL, verify DIGS (on ED2):

DOOR open (APU door open)

IN BITE (APU IN BITE status message)

GAUGES (RPM and EGT indications appear)

SOV (APU SOV OPEN status message appears)

One APU IN BITE status message disappears, press the START STOP switch. 

At 99% RPM + 2 seconds, the APU aid available. 

 

If you start it in the air, the APU door wont open until you press the START STOP switch. This is normal to prevent windmilling at a critical RPM where it's not rotating quickly enough to adequately self lubricate. 

 

Shutdown, start by pressing the START STOP switch. 

Once the RPM winds down, wait till the APU door closes on ED2, then press the PWR FUEL switch. 

[/random bonus aside]

 

Only time in normal ops that I've had to put the bleeds in Manual mode is taxiing in single engine, then starting the APU. The Air Cond System Controller (ACSC) gets confused if you shut down an engine before the APU is running and won't automatically switch the packs to the APU. The order it's expecting is:

engines start

APU off

APU on

engines off

any disruption there and it gets confused. If you're taxiing in and decide to go single engine before starting the APU (please don't if it's summer), the ACSC won't automatically switch the packs to the APU when you start it. The rememdy is to go to Manual Mode, open the ISOL valve, rotate to APU on the source knob, wait for them to transfer, then put them back to BOTH ENG (I think? It's the 12 o'clock position) and ISOL closed, then mode switch to AUTO. This'll reset the system controller and prioritize the bleeds correctly. 

 

For CoG I've seen everything from 16.0 to 24.5 %Mac. On average, maybe 18.0? Just kinda guessing. Sorry I don't have a better answer there. 

 

Hope that answers your questions!

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