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ReconB4

Things I've noticed that are missing so far

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5 hours ago, ROMAN78 said:

Completely agree with you RECONB4. VNAV advisory is real glitchy and doesn't display the VNAV descent profile advisory you mentioned. I saw it once but its was calculated against a random waypoint but ignored the ones that had crossing restrictions. I've been using the puuple banana to manage descents but It would be nice to have that work. I'm still thankful for Hans for all his hardwork in delivering use the CRJ. It will get there Thanks!!

 

v/r

 

ROMAN78

I hope no one is taking my pointing out things as complaining or trying to be negative. That is not my intention. I just want to get the aircraft as close to correct as possible, nothing else.

 

As far as the banana, it does work, sort of. The problem I'm seeing with it is that as you get closer to the descent point, altitude, the banana is creeping closer and closer and you keep having to change your descent rate in increments of 500 fpm or more. In the end, let's say you started off with a 2500 fpm descent to descend 10k, you'll end up at 500 fpm or less by the time you reach the waypoint. In the real aircraft, I normally only have to adjust the rate of descent 100 to MAYBE 300 fpm after the initial descent rate is set. This one seems to change a lot as you descend.

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 3:09 PM, Hans Hartmann said:

Please no list threads! One thread per problem, otherwise it's impossible for us to handle everything without missing stuff.

 

Thanks.

 Ok, I apologize, I didn't realize. I figured it would be easier to list everything at once since I found so many different things. I can check to see what hasn't been listed and do one per thread, but do you really want me to start that many threads? I don't mind doing it, just clarifying.

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21 minutes ago, ReconB4 said:

I hope no one is taking my pointing out things as complaining or trying to be negative. That is not my intention. I just want to get the aircraft as close to correct as possible, nothing else.

 

As far as the banana, it does work, sort of. The problem I'm seeing with it is that as you get closer to the descent point, altitude, the banana is creeping closer and closer and you keep having to change your descent rate in increments of 500 fpm or more. In the end, let's say you started off with a 2500 fpm descent to descend 10k, you'll end up at 500 fpm or less by the time you reach the waypoint. In the real aircraft, I normally only have to adjust the rate of descent 100 to MAYBE 300 fpm after the initial descent rate is set. This one seems to change a lot as you descend.

 

I hope no one feels like your're complaining as well. I've been watching my Justplanes Air Canada CRJ-705 segment and it shoss exactly what you're talking about in detail. I believe they use the Collins FMS-4200... please correct me if I'm wrong. I even programmed my FMS based  on how they did and I was able to see a variation of what your'e talking about. Not sure the detail in the Aerosoft CRJ, but like you, I hope we can get a true complete simulation as its RW counterpart. I maybe missing something in setting it up and I hope Hans and the team can help getting a better understanding of it. 

 

Very Respectfully,

 

ROMAN78

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ReconB4 said:

No, if you look up a few posts, you'll see a picture of the wilco crj and a real crj cockpit picture that shows what is supposed to be shown on the MFD

 I saw the display. What I meant was is the information you are talking about the same as what is in the dir intc page? I seem remember there was some talk that the aerosoft FMS was modeled after one FMS, but there was a different FMS software out there as well.  Maybe the display is different between the two systems. Just curious if that might be a difference here. I have no idea of course.

 

By the way, I never thought you were complaining.  Seems to me like you just want to provide a real world perspective to make the product better. I find it interesting personally.

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10 hours ago, Hans Hartmann said:

And my point further above was: No list threads. That was ignored either.

 

We understand that.

But on the other hand i have counted 3 main and about 12 secondary points by the Op.

So he should have done 15 threads ! A bit much I think.

(btw when RW pilots compare real plane with simulation that gives generally very long lists ;))

 

One of his 3 main  points was  the advisory Vnav. 

For advisory Vnav there is the "snowflake", as they call it on the PFD and the blue ball on the VSI.

But the target FPM are also indicated on the MFD. (see picture above)

Afaik it is this value on the MFD that most RW pilots use to regulate their  descent.

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Here's a picture that's perhaps a bit clearer in showing the MFD in VNAV mode. I'm fairly sure this is also with the FMS software version that is used as reference, but need to double check (not 4.2).

 

598d9ab7ce4b9_20170323_205317(2).thumb.jpg.d0ef7e7df79318daf984558992741dba.jpg

 

You can see our next restriction above the altitude tape on the PFD, and on the MFD you have more details in terms of next waypoints, distances, time to go, and in green you have the VNAV data. Time and distance until TOD, routing and angle, rate required, waypoint, restriction at the waypoint and time and distance to that waypoint.

 

 

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Yep, besides the different version of the fms software, each airline has also differents options. 

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vor 6 Stunden , Propane sagte:

Here's a picture that's perhaps a bit clearer in showing the MFD in VNAV mode. I'm fairly sure this is also with the FMS software version that is used as reference, but need to double check (not 4.2).

 

598d9ab7ce4b9_20170323_205317(2).thumb.jpg.d0ef7e7df79318daf984558992741dba.jpg

 

You can see our next restriction above the altitude tape on the PFD, and on the MFD you have more details in terms of next waypoints, distances, time to go, and in green you have the VNAV data. Time and distance until TOD, routing and angle, rate required, waypoint, restriction at the waypoint and time and distance to that waypoint.

 

 

 

I forgot all the context and just looked at the beautiful picture lol :). It's always cool to have real-life pilots here who are willing to support the developer concerning improvements etc.

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On 10.8.2017 at 8:24 PM, Guy9 said:

 

the "vertical speed FPM descent number on the MFD"  in the REAL CRJ:  

not very good picture but readable (if you zoom in):

 (btw the feelthere has it about right )

Crj_real_3.jpg

Thanks for the photo. However, this is a CRJ 1000 which most likely has the 4.2 FMS software. The things it shows on the MFD, aren't even in the manual versions I have.

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2 hours ago, Hans Hartmann said:

Thanks for the photo. However, this is a CRJ 1000 which most likely has the 4.2 FMS software. The things it shows on the MFD, aren't even in the manual versions I have.

 

Thanks for the answer  :)

the picture is effectively of a CRJ 1000 (don't know the Version of Fms)

 

Don't know, but what you say is  for me very astonishing for the following reasons:

 

1) the green Vnav data on the MFD are important  BASIC information (which I think have always been there, but stand to be corrected)

    Afaik Fms V4.2 has "only" made some "technical" changes ( like possible  LPV approaches, RF legs, RNP 4  etc)

 

2) the other picture shown by the RW Crj pilot "Propane"  above shows also the green Vnav data and he is pretty sure they do not have 4.2

 

3) the "good old" Feelthere CRJ (the original FT version) had already this Vnav data on the Mfd  and this simulation is more than 10 years old ! (see my picture above)

 

As i said : astonishing ! :)

 

Best regards

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It's still mentioned in a very rudimentary way in the 4.1 manuals. 1 drawing which doesn't contain a ToD info at all and a different arrangement of the VNAV data. Nothing else. A TOD line is described in the text but I've never seen how it looks like. Feelthere is definitely not a valid reference. I don't copy from other add-ons. Anyway, I now know how it looks now and will implement it in due course.

 

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7 minutes ago, Hans Hartmann said:

Anyway, I now know how it looks now and will implement it in due course.

 

 

Excellent ! :)

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On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 9:46 AM, Hans Hartmann said:

Thanks for the photo. However, this is a CRJ 1000 which most likely has the 4.2 FMS software. The things it shows on the MFD, aren't even in the manual versions I have.

As far as the vnav info that is shown on the MFD, its the same in the 200, 700 and 900 and has been the same at two different airlines I've flown for and when jumpseating in other airlines/crjs. I've never seen anything different in any CRJ or airline.

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On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 0:14 PM, Hans Hartmann said:

It's still mentioned in a very rudimentary way in the 4.1 manuals. 1 drawing which doesn't contain a ToD info at all and a different arrangement of the VNAV data. Nothing else. A TOD line is described in the text but I've never seen how it looks like. Feelthere is definitely not a valid reference. I don't copy from other add-ons. Anyway, I now know how it looks now and will implement it in due course.

 

 

Thank you Hans. I appreciate your attention to detail AND the fact that you will make adjustments when needed. Again, I hope none of this comes across as complaining or saying you guys don't do a good job. That is no my intention what so ever. To be honest, other than using this for myself, there are a lot of other pilots at my airline and others that use flight sims and I'd like to use this CRJ to help others in training, when everything gets ironed out. I have a friend that flies 737's for an airline and he uses the PMDG for his own training and helping others get ready for their yearly checks. I want to do the same with the CRJ since there's never been one good enough, until now.

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50 minutes ago, ReconB4 said:

As far as the vnav info that is shown on the MFD, its the same in the 200, 700 and 900 and has been the same at two different airlines I've flown for and when jumpseating in other airlines/crjs. I've never seen anything different in any CRJ or airline.

 

I have looked up in the FCOM and FOM of the CRJ, but I have found no precise description of this Green Vnav information.

In the Collins FMS manual  they just say under 'Map display menu':  

"WINDOW OFF/ON/VNAV/COMP — Shows at the top of the MFD, when ON or VNAV is enabled, a 4-line text display of NAVIGATION progress data when the MFD is set to the FMS MAP or PLAN MAP display modes" but there is no other detail.

 

So do you know where one can find a precise description of these Vnav lines ?

I think Hans will be interested also by this ! :)

 

Best regards.

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3 hours ago, Guy9 said:

 

I have looked up in the FCOM and FOM of the CRJ, but I have found no precise description of this Green Vnav information.

In the Collins FMS manual  they just say under 'Map display menu':  

"WINDOW OFF/ON/VNAV/COMP — Shows at the top of the MFD, when ON or VNAV is enabled, a 4-line text display of NAVIGATION progress data when the MFD is set to the FMS MAP or PLAN MAP display modes" but there is no other detail.

 

So do you know where one can find a precise description of these Vnav lines ?

I think Hans will be interested also by this ! :)

 

Best regards.

I have a green Collins FMS manual and some other documentation. I'll go dig them up and see if there's anything on that subject. If I can't find anything specific I can contact our training department which is 20 min away from my house and see if they can give us some direction.

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10 hours ago, ReconB4 said:

I have a green Collins FMS manual and some other documentation. I'll go dig them up and see if there's anything on that subject. If I can't find anything specific I can contact our training department which is 20 min away from my house and see if they can give us some direction.

Thanks !

 

I found now a description of the navigation and Vnav data of the MFD in  the Collins Fms pilots guide .

It is a theoretical text explanation without images. (pictures would be better) 

 

To get those navigation data there are two conditions:

1) the MFD must be set to Fms MAP display mode

2) on the Cdu (Fms) page "MFDMenu" one must choose

    Window = ON to get only the normal navigation data (waypoints)

    Window = VNAV to get the advisory VNAV data (in green) with necessary vertical speed etc

 

I join  the 3 concerning pages of the Fms guide:

 

Crj_Fms_1.jpg

Crj_Fms_2.jpg

Crj_Fms_3.jpg

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17 hours ago, ReconB4 said:

As far as the vnav info that is shown on the MFD, its the same in the 200, 700 and 900 and has been the same at two different airlines I've flown for and when jumpseating in other airlines/crjs. I've never seen anything different in any CRJ or airline.

 

Yep, main differences I know about between software versions is when the data will show. In older versions like 4.1 I believe, it will show "x" amount of miles before top of descent (believe the magic number is 50nm or maybe 80, not sure). In later versions you will have it showing from top of climb basically.

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For more nice info about the FMS search youtube for: Jacksonville University School of Aviation CRJ 700

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To complete the extract of the Collins Crj Fms pilots guide concerning navigation and Vnav data on the MFD  i gave above :

 

Here are two videos showing navigation and Vnav data on the MFD ( a picture is worth a thousand words) 

 

-first is a Crj-900 at cruise. The captain has  Window=ON (normal navigation progress) while i think the copilot has Windows=Vnav

                                           but the Vnav data are not there yet as they are still too far away from TOD (more than 50 nm).                                           

-second is a Crj-1000 (same as 900) during descent with Window=VNAV (descent with advisory Vnav)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gg74Hu5A-4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vXDGgNBr_0

 

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There are still some other things that need to be addressed on top of what's been mention. One is 'cleaning up the box' when you're setting up for the approach. IIRC, the manual states that when you're within 30nm of the airport and you bring up an intersection from the approach, it will clear all the waypoints you have, except the ones of the approach and give you an extended centerline of the runway. As it is now, you'll just get a line from you to the intersection you brought up into the magenta and that shouldn't happen.

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I stopped flying it, since 1.0.0.5. I figured there would be another update by now. Is there one planned, hopefully soon?

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Have a look at this thread. contains list of improvements:

 

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