Jump to content

Night Environment Sceneries fuer P3D v4 ?


Recommended Posts

Hallo,

wann stellt ihr die Night Environment Sceneries fuer den P3Dv4 parat ? (Schaue ich im Shop, steht noch P3D V2 oder V3).

Bei Chris Bell gibt es bereits die entsprechenden V4 Installer.

 

z.B.: Frankreich (bei Chris Bell) (v4)  http://www.nightenvironment.com/products/night-environment/france/

Frankreich Aerosoft (v2 only) :http://www.aerosoft.com/de/fsxp3d/prepar3d/tools/1138/night-environment-france

 

Daher haette ich erwartet, dass zeitnah die Aerosoft Kunden auch die Updates erhalten.

 

Gruss

 

Arne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Root Admin

The installers should be delivered to us this week. There was some discussion needed because Chris sells them separately per simulator platform and charge separately for support. Those limitations were not acceptable for us (not offering support is even not legal under EU law). But we agreed that we can offer the V4 installers to our current customers and of course Aerosoft will never charge for support. 

 

So sorry for the delay, but it will be solved soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Mathijs,
indeed we had to workout few details in respects to our new shop format, (new v4 builds are transmitted to AS server as we speak)

i can assure everyone we will take good care of each Aerosoft customer as our own direct customers! (just as we always did!)
from Aerosoft customers point of view there will be no difference for you beside improved handling systems and faster services,

 

Regards,

Chris
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Root Admin

Sorry, change of plans. We did NOT reach an agreement with Chris unfortunately. The main issue is that we feel very different about how to serve customers (for example we would never charge for support, even if it would be a legal options for us). This is very unfortunate for all parties involved and I apologize for the confusion. But please keep in mind that we did never sell any guaranteed update, we sold you the files for the sims we listed on the product page.

 

It will be up to Chris to offer update options. Certainly for recent sales I believe he will offer that option.

 

Again, our apologies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Mathijs,

indeed we do have slight conflict in policies,

 

our new product lines prices are broken down further splitting title cost and extended support option,

we do provide by default 3 months standard support and updates with any title!

our extended support option includes 2 years access to our live update server,

technical support with extended services and priority response,

 

i apologies for the misunderstanding and inconvenience,

we will still try our best to find a solution,

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Fabian,
you can certainly purchase additional support at any time after your 3 months expired,


we offer a two year subscription at 50% discount during initial purchase,
it is an option you can opt out of, you can come back later; we still maintain all your information for you!


the main difference is access to our live update server (subscription based), ticketing system, and download server,
after the three months expire, your titles information is still preserved forever,

 

if you wanted to buy extended support and update two years down the road, its fine!
its a small fee under $5 for a full year extended support!

which covers updates and new installer,

as well as all extended support options,

 

we went the extra mile to try and make our titles more affordable this way!

we were sure a more modular format would be a appreciated and welcome,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Aerosoft

Hi Chris,

 

after reading all of this, which is totally clear and understandable to me, how will Aerosoft Night Environment customers get updates for P3Dv4?

  • for free through AS?
  • for free through you?
  • for $5 per year of extended support through you?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Tom A320
Hi Tom, its good to see you :)

we are still trying to work out the details on the back end,

 

previous NE were created for 32bit platforms,

in those developments we had to cut many corners to make it work,

this is not the case anymore with v4; we can spread our creative wings!

we intend to continue enhancing NE for v4 through our live server or new builds as needed to deliver customers the best visuals possible with no compromise,

 

NE for v4 is essentially a new NE designed for x64 specifically!
its essentially not an update! (we are still working on an upgrade path)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Aerosoft

Hi Chris,

 

nice seeing you back here in the AS forums again as well :) 

 

I have no problems with paying for the update at all, as actually I never bought a 64bit version, but only a 32bit one.

If there is more/new stuff in it compared to the 32bit version any kind of update fee is totally justified. As a matter of fact, that's what AS is doing as well.

 

Looking forward to see you and Mathijs coming up with a proper solution for this!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Root Admin
57 minutes ago, Chris Bell said:

our new product lines prices are broken down further splitting title cost and extended support option,

we do provide by default 3 months standard support and updates with any title!

our extended support option includes 2 years access to our live update server,

technical support with extended services and priority response,

 

We are legally obliged to support the product for at least a year and in practise we support as long as there it demand.  Aerosoft will never allow products that charge for support. It is just not our style but we respect companies that charge for support when they are residing in a territory where that is legally accepted.

 

I am unhappy that this discussion is held in public, but I felt it was needed to explain why I had to retract the my first statement.  This will be our last statement. on this topic. I am sure Chris will handle things correctly with our customers. There is no fight between him and Aerosoft, it is just a difference in opinion and sometime that prevents a liaison. 

 

Again keep in mind we did not sell anything with a guarantee for a P3D V4 version. Of course all current customers get unlimited support for all the products they bought, nothing changed there.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

indeed Tom we added new features and functions!

new light libraries, more lighting options,
as well as lined up new features to be added in upcoming updates :)
 

5 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

We are legally obliged to support the product for at least a year and in practise we support as long as there it demand. 

 

 

my apologies again, you are correct Mathijs!
on our end we had no idea this restriction is in effect for EU based companies :(
we are based in California and operate under different restrictions,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris, I sent you an email, 2 days ago with this topic and never received any answer from you.

So I started this Topic here in the Aerosoft Forum to receive a better picture about the status of NE for existing NE customers as me.

 

So I am feeling a little bit confused to the P3Dv4 updates on your website, but not on the Aerosoft site.

A lot (all ?) NE titles on your site are already converted to v4 ? So in my point of view, the conversion from 32bit to 64bit was no big deal...

Other question, you talk about a complete "new design" for 64bit, but for me as customer, I will see the night lights "only", so what is the new design for me as customer ?

Why do I need to pay again for the same "lights" ?

Can you explain further details ?

 

I was also disappointed in the past, that NEFrance was never available for P3Dv3, so I bought it and never could use it. (Bought it shortly bevore P3Dv3 was published).

 

Sorry if it sounds a little bit to harsh from me, but I am still wondering about all these missing updates in the past.

 

Best regards

 

Arne

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Arne,

if have not responded its not because im ignoring the question,

i don't recall getting an email from you or if i did it must slipped my mind!

 

im sorry if you're confused as for why Prepar3D v4 requires a paid update!

this is a bit of charged subject; there are several school of thoughts on this topic,

there is no one answer fit all on this topic,

 

in a nutshell Prepar3D v4 is a new platform, its nothing like anything we had before,

from you're end it may seem trivial; yet LM changed the standards and requirement,

they have developed new functions and features that are different then previous platforms,

this requires us to rebuild our work to work in P3D v4!

 

just because lights look the same it doesn't imply we didn't need to work to make it look the same!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Developer

Hi Chris,

 

it is no question for me (and everybody who invest his time to make addons possible), that the switch to a new Platform with new options and technologies (maybe only in parts, but they are in case of P3D V4 very important parts), can not be done for free. 

Here I don't agree with Arne's statement, that he see the same light. It's the same with Airport Addons: You always see the same Airport, but with new techniques or visuale effects, features, or only code adapted to the new SDK.

 

All this happens not itself and need's person who invest there time to do it. When this is all given for free, we still update Addon Airports the customer has bought 1998 for FS98. That's not possible and we all need to pay our costs at the end of the month.

 

But, in the most cases, by Aerosoft or other Developers, even when the Airport is done complete new, with monthes of work, the customer of the previous Product will get a discount, when he what to switch to the new product, independent of the this also support a new Plattform Version.

 

If you don't want to sell your products via Aerosoft and only via your own new Shop, this is for me independent from the question, if costumers of the previous Aerosoft Version get an option for a discount to bring there products to P3D V4.

 

How this is in details to be handled, you need to discuss with Aerosoft internal.

 

The primary question of your (Aerosoft) costumes, if they have to pay the full price, should be answered clearly from your side. It's you product and you make the policy for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, OPabst said:

The primary question of your (Aerosoft) costumes, if they have to pay the full price, should be answered clearly from your side. It's you product and you make the policy for that.

 

Thank you for your kind words Oliver :)
we do want to keep working with Aerosoft as we did in the past!

we absolutely not expecting existing customers to pay a full price to upgrade to our new v4!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Oliver,

 

thanks for joining here.

For me as customer, I also agree that the ongoing development time, that a Scenery developer needs to update up to v4, should be paid. No discussion.

But I will also look, what is my benefit to pay for an update. Are also new Terminals created ? Or redesigned ? New runway textures or something like that ?

If I do not see that, than I will double check, if I will pay for. For me EDDF is very important, so I would pay for it. I also just bought the Balearen update (4th update since 10 years or that I paid for.)

With v4 we have a milestone in history of FlightSimulation, no longer OOMs or something like that (I hope) :-)

Coming back to NE, as I wrote above, there were no updates (inside the Aerosoft site) for some titles (NE France) from v2 to v3. So I paid for it, and was never able to use it.

So I lose money. No comment about this above from Chris or Aerosoft above. :-(

So why support NE with a new buy ? Only that this is working in v4 but not in v5 (next year, looking in the future). 

So where to buy NE, within Chris webshop ? So I need to buy the 2 years support extra value ? Or within Aerosoft, not knowing if an update will be available for me ?

If I see other developer, they created updates within some days after a new version of v4 is out. As a customer, I benefit that and will buy more and more scenerys on their site. Because I know I will have updates for free for years. Ok, every developer decides on his own if an update charge is required. If the developer offers my good points why this is necessary, I agree. But not in any case.

So in the past I moved more and more away from Aerosoft to other shops. Most products are available within the developer stores. And I feel better served there.

Ok, I drifted up to a more general issue. I only want to offer my point of view.

 

Arne

vor 23 Minuten, Chris Bell sagte:

 

Thank you for your kind words Oliver :)
we do want to keep working with Aerosoft as we did in the past!

we absolutely not expecting existing customers to pay a full price to upgrade to our new v4!

 

:groupwave_s:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just to

11 minutes ago, ArneJ said:

So I need to buy the 2 years support extra value ?

 

to make it clear...

our titles with 2 year support still come out about the same as prices represented by Aerosoft today,
just because we split the cost doesn't mean its more expensive now!

 

with 2 year support included (we list in US $ currency) its still a very competitive price,

i urge anyone who has a doubt to simply check for themselves :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Developer

Thank Chris, to clear that part.

 

But you should think about you "Support policy" too. It's not "game ready" ;)

If I buy your product for V4 (we don't talk about V5), then I expect, that I get all needed updates to fix issues with your code, independent if this are bugs in your code or needed fixes to react to hotfixes and subversion changes generated by LM.

When I buy a product for V4 today and in 4 month LM release version 4.1 with changes in the handling of same parts, witch effects your product, you can not stop the support for it. Maybe it needs time to fix the issue, but when it is done, you could not hide it to user, who have no 2 year support payed. That will not work.

 

You can offer to a special year based "Service enhancment pack", where the customer get access to internal developer forum, personal access to Chris :) or could get access to beta's and, if V5 is released a free update, where others have to pay a upgrade fee.  

But to limit time for access to "Support", it is not the best option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, OPabst said:

You can offer to a special year based "Service enhancment pack", where the customer get access to internal developer forum, personal access to Chris :)

 

i absolutely agree Oliver, this is exactly what our extended support is!!!

 

we will always be responsible for our bugs as we have been so far,
three months basic support will cover that aspect of making sure we deliver a bug free working product!

it will be unfair of us to deliver a product that still has a bug in it without delivering a fix to any customer who trusted and supported us,

even if is subscription is expired we will always deliver a bug free working install!

 

after that it is only fair to ask that we are supported on our on going efforts to keep up with changes and platform developers updates,

 

this is where our subscription model comes to play,

you always have access to our priority support when under this type of contact,

you can "demand" and it is your right to do so with our extended support,

you do get special access, ticketing system, remote desktop service,

voice communications or video conformance as part of our service,

and much more "white glove" services,

 

again it is not a must to add our extended support option!

you can buy a year worth of support later on for under $5 if you wish to keep up with updates beyond 3 months basic support,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 49 Minuten, Chris Bell sagte:

 

.....

after that it is only fair to ask that we are supported on our on going efforts to keep up with changes and platform developers updates

......

 

So i only buy a installer for the actual p3dv4 version? If there is a hotfix for p3dv4 (4.1 etc.) and your stuff doesn´t work anymore i have to buy the extendes support?

 

hmm strange business model. I have no problem to pay for a new Version and platform (p3dv5 etc.) but for changes needed after a platform hotfix cO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@wussa
why strange?

 

what is strange...

is to expect certain developers to freely support (in other word pay for) another developer development because "you" (the customer) elected to update to a new build!

if there are update required to be made to get our software to work after an update; you feel we shouldn't be compensated for our work?

 

you as a customer should embrace our approach!

if anything we are assuring "you" (the customer) receive proper service and fast updates ON TIME!

 

did you get Win Vista for free because you had Win XP installed before, maybe from Vista to Win 7, or to Win 8...?

or maybe office were nice to give the updated office version for Vista when you moved away from XP?

(we all did btw as Oliver mentioned above, that's taken for granted instead of being appreciated!!!)

 

maybe Microsoft or any other software development company out there also share similar strange business model?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Developer

Hi Chris,

 

that's maybe only a "wording" problem, but in parts I think its more:

 

When I enter "support" into goole translator i get in german "Unterstützung".

That had nothing to do with new features new products or "updates for new content"

It is simple the support of the customer to handle the product as it is selled to work. This could not be limited in time, as when I get a new PC and reinstall all my product and get issues with the Installer, what else, I need Support from the provider.

When you open a Shop, you can handle this via email, ticket-system or forum. Minimum one of this option you have to provide to the customer. A ticket-system is not a benefit for the customer, it give's you a better option to handle issues of your shop business, as you can preorder the issue or better redirect it internal to the responsable person. How fast the ticket is answered is no system item.

For me as customer, email or ticket-system is the minimum, but I can't see before I buy there in the shop how it is handled. 

The forum give me the view I need to see, how the shop is handling issues after the sale, the rest is nice to have, from my side, when it is available, maybe make the shop more attraktiv.

Where they buy, (and if no attraktiv option available) if they buy , is a question of the "Support option" (Unterstützungoptionen). 

I never read a statement of a customer, that he ask for a lower price, when he don't need this support. But, give you shop customers the offer to reduce the sale price by 5 Euro, when they never contact you after 3month, would be interesting, how often this option is used ;)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

your feedback much appreciated Oliver!

 

ticketing system gives you a certificate and tracking for your issues, and a dedicated one on one session with a support engineer!

 

posting on a forum is a different experience than talking to a person over the phone

or on video conformance or have support remote into your system to help you with your issue,

 

some don't need it; this is why our model is modular in those situation,

most updates may not require our support for advanced users,

 

judge from your own experience how often a software stops working after its been working for 3 months steady?

for some this will be something that they can live without while for other its a valuable service,

for those who can live without... $4.98 is still $4.98 worth of savings! (and its USD not EUR! :) )

 

lets also put things in proportion... we are talking about $4.98 for two years worth of extended support!!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Developer
vor 15 Minuten, Chris Bell sagte:

 

judge from your own experience how often a software stops working after its been working for 3 months steady?

 

 

I am in IT business since 35 years, no software is steady, as long it not runs in a black box. You can read all this forum, you will find tons of issues happens far behond your timeframe, mostly in combination with changes on the complex base we play on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...