NKidd

Silly routes most of the time?

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I've been a long time user of PFPX and I like it a lot. However. Increasingly I'm having to use an external program (Simbrief) to actually find a sensible route and then import it. Very often, PFPX seems to come up with quite bizarre routes that can be hugely longer than they should be. I'm at a loss to explain why this should be .... but I have to do this more than 50% of the time. I have the latest AIRAC installed and a data subscription. Any ideas??

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Even IFPS does not propose a valid route between LFRS and LIRF so it will require some manual work to achieve the goal. If you are not bothered about validating the route then use the advanced planner and disable the RAD filter.

 

The route LEBL-LFMN using AIRAC NG1703 and the updated files as noted by Tom results in a valid route when capped to FL305:

 

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Updated to the latest RAD & NAVS. Tried a reinstallation also (although the uninstaller doesn't seem too thorough!). I'm not sure what else to try. Usually, if I grab a (more plausible) route from Simbrief, paste it in and and run a validation, it's quite happy with the result - even though the route I've imported is significantly more direct than the suggested route.

 

You're right about the LEBL_LFMN route if capped to 305 .... but why would it select such a nonsensical route with no restriction? Isn't the route above the best route? Shouldn't it be selecting this route and restricting it to 305 itself? Puzzling.

 

Thanks for your suggestions anyway guys. I'll just have to battle on using another source to generate the routes ... which does seem a bit of a nonsense for a flight planner! 

 

Kind regards

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Simbrief will use routes from repositories submitted by others and are hopefully valid. The route supplied for LFRS-LIRF is certainly not, using the beta route finder the route is not valid either.

 

The PFPX route found for LEBL-LFMN is the same even if not capped to FL305, the cap was applied to clear IFPS validation.

 

City pair level capping is not functioning as it should currently in PFPX and hopefully that will be resolved.

 

 

 

 

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yesterday i tried to plan a route from lfpg to lddu, latest airac and rad restriction, pfpx was totatally unable to create a valid route, so yes most of the times there are some silly routes...!

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12 hours ago, frederic29 said:

yesterday i tried to plan a route from lfpg to lddu, latest airac and rad restriction, pfpx was totatally unable to create a valid route, so yes most of the times there are some silly routes...!

 

So how is that a silly route ?

 

PFPX was unable to compute a route applying RAD restrictions, this can also happen using EuroControl IFPS. Did you try planning with RAD restrictions disabled ?

 

The LFPG-LDDU route generated here without issue and only a minor adjustment to a direct resulted in a validated route.

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I also wonder since a longer time now about the routes PFPX provides.

That was not an issue in earlier times.

 

However I can't say if this is now a kind of user error or not, but I got better routes in former versions. Nowadays I have to manually edit every 2nd route.

 

I haven't asked here in the forum as support is really bad, so this does not make sense normally.

 

 

Here is a little example for a simple route between EDBC and EDDW. It's not what I call an economic route:

 

8jZKdOW.png

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If you look at the airway structure and also apply the RAD restrictions you will see the difficulties, again even EuroControl IFPS does not propose a valid route, it will take manual planning.

 

If you are not concerned about route validation use the advanced planner and disable the RAD.

 

It will be interesting to see the legitimate routing.

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Hello,

This route is valid: MAG L986 DLE Z88 VERED

When you plan you have to use a route which has to be accepted by Eurocontrol. Most probably you would be given a DCT EMBOX or POVEL.

Even that today the DCTs are not yet implemented in all Europe, practically you would be given DCTs in most countries.

Regards,

JP

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Although I have several issues with PFPX, there is generally no problem with route finding function, you can't really blame it here. You have to realise that PFPX, like most other planners, use math algorithms to find the shortest path between two points through a series of nodes with certain weight attached to them (like distance, time, cost, fuel - check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijkstra's_algorithm ). These nodes are either airways, specific DCTs, oceanic tracks, etc. It is pure math to find the shortest path (distance is not always the factor, you should really use fuel, time or cost optimisation) through the network interconnected nodes. 

 

Now, when it comes to European routing, just get used to the fact that it is the most regulated airspace on the planet. You have to respect RAD restrictions and it takes time to find IFPS valid route. Whenever I plan short-hauls within France-Switzerland-Italy-Germany-Austria region, it sometimes takes me 10+ different route options with multiple level changes and up to half an hour only to find IFPS valid route and it does look weird and not economical at all, but this is regulation. Beleive me, real-world dispatchers face the same problem.

 

Whenever you have IFPS error, do not rebuild entirely different route, sometimes it just needs different flight level, or minute leg change. Go to https://www.nm.eurocontrol.int/RAD/ , click current airac link on the left (atm AIRAC 1703 - 02 Mar 2017) and download the last file called "Annex - Pan Europe".  There you lookup error code you got from IFPS and check the reason for that error, correct your route accordingly.

 

Although using someone else's route (like through SimBrief) saves time, it is a totally flawed concept that is so engrained in FlightSim community whereby people for ages been relying on route-bank websites as there was no proper flight planning engine, like PFPX. No days are ever the same, you will encounter different weather, day-specific restrictions, etc. Routing should be prepared for specific day and specific flight.

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