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FL change in flight plan


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Hello,

FL is being calculated automatically, so far that's clear.

However, over Europe it happens often that I have to change FL, due to RVSM and N/S rule (France and Spain).

How do I properly enter this into PFPX?

Thanks

Kosta

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LEPA -> LOWW

Automatically calculated by PFPX:

N0447F340 MERO1L MEROS UN853 LUMAS UM985 EKSID/N0449F360 M985 OSKOR/N0453F370 L615 ELTAR/N0454F360 T147 SOVOX DCT LAPNA LAPN1W

I had to manually change it (in vPilot) to:

N0445F340 MEROS UN853 LUMAS UM985 EKSID/N0445F360 M985 OSKOR L615 ELTAR T147 SOVOX/N0445F370 DCT LAPNA

All up to OSKOR is correct, but Italy is complete N/S semicircular rule. So FL370 at OSKOR would be wrong. However then at ELTAR, it changes to FL360, which is right, so only two waypoints are to FL370.

And at SOVOX, it should change to odd, FL370 in my case, for the RVSM rule.

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Well Italy is now Free Route Airspace ( FRAIT ) above FL335 so the route from EKSID is not available at those levels.

 

The direct links required do not form part of the AIRAC data files so I strongly recommend using David's 'PFPX RAD Restrictions and Directs' available from the Aerosoft downloads above.

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OK, I looked into this, new thing for me. I get the principle, and looked at the charts etc. However, how is flightlevel still managed? In FRA, there is no more RVSM as I understand, aircraft basically fly from A->B directly (oh the times of direct flying in FS9 internal flight planner from a to b are back??, lol...), so how is vertical separation done? If only by ATC, as noted in the document, then we are kinda left alone... did I misunderstand something?

Btw. downloading that file did a lot - now I really have FRA through Italy. Still unsure about FL though.

MERO1L MEROS UN853 LUMAS UM985 EKSID M985 NOSTA DCT NOPMU DCT ETPUB Q985 MALUG DCT ABTAN ABTA1W

 

Sorry, found it:

https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/default/files/content/documents/nm/cartography/flight-level-orientation-scheme-nm-area-march-2016.pdf

 

And while checking it, question for Spain: to which rule does Spain adhere really?

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Spain sill use Airways except for the Madrid sector which has directs assigned according to the RAD, N/S RVSM applies.

 

Some airways however have differing FL arrangements to RVSM especially crossing FIR's, again PFPX should accommodate the correct levels

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9 hours ago, Djembe said:

Did you try to Validate the route?

Using directs, the problem is solved, and yes I did validate.

The only message I get in there is M985 is preceded by EKSID which is not one of its points - I will guess that its in the conjunction with FRA and DCT. Because if I exchange M985 with DCT, there is no message any more. EKSID is a FRA entry point of Italy. And there is no airway connection between. See here:

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I get the same messege.

The chart show UM985 and M985 with no connection. But in PFPX seems connected.

I will update to 1703 (relase today) with the new RAD and check again.

 

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New AIRAC, new RAD, same problem.

 

The waypoint EKSID is conected only with  M985. But PFPX show that is connected with UM985 and M985.

 

Is this a PFPX problem or a Navigraph problem?

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Seems to be a Navigraph issue, with NavDataPro it works as shown on Kostas chart:

 

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59 minutes ago, Djembe said:

I get the same messege.

The chart show UM985 and M985 with no connection. But in PFPX seems connected.

I will update to 1703 (relase today) with the new RAD and check again.

 

Can you please show what you mean?

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10 hours ago, Djembe said:

I get the same messege.

The chart show UM985 and M985 with no connection. But in PFPX seems connected.

I will update to 1703 (relase today) with the new RAD and check again.

 

Jeppesen... how about Navigraph 1702 in PFPX?

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UM985 does not exist in Italian airspace according their AIP, M985 links EKSID and NOSTA with a maximum FL335

 

However, the AIP of France indicates UM985 continuing to NOSTA in Italian airspace.

 

The Italian AIP charts also indicate M985 only.

 

Navigraph data reflects the Italian AIP.

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Jeppesen does agree. Please note that Jeppesen is a RW provider and, if I am not mistaken, Navigraph takes its data from Jeppesen.

 

As Stephen states the French AIP (SIA) does not show the change of airway. It is quite normal as each country shows only its airspace and does not care about their neighbours. It is wrong but it is the way. It is why there are private companies like Jeppesen or Lido that provides informations for all the world.

 

JP

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Jeppessen and Lufthansa Systems both do mistakes though and this may be one of them.

 

This is what LIDO shows:

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And this is what Skyvector (who seem to use the same source as LIDO) shows:

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According to the LIDO Chart the free route airspace (FRA) starts only at NOSTA and thus UM985 continues to NOSTA.

 

The error Kosta gets from the CFMU validation suggests that LIDO is right and Jeppesen is wrong in this case.

 

 

On 2.3.2017 at 8:54 AM, Kosta said:

Using directs, the problem is solved, and yes I did validate.

The only message I get in there is M985 is preceded by EKSID which is not one of its points - I will guess that its in the conjunction with FRA and DCT. Because if I exchange M985 with DCT, there is no message any more. EKSID is a FRA entry point of Italy. And there is no airway connection between. See here:

 

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SkyVector is using Jeppesen data if you look closely at the airway colour from EKSID to NOSTA

 

EKSID is however not an FRA entry point as Emanuel points out and confirmed via the AIP, it looks like a Jeppesen error.

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Maybe adding the DCTs from this forum fixes the issue? Because this is a FRA in the end. And not sure if Navigraph has these, as you read above.

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Indeed the directs are required for all users Kosta, otherwise flights are limited to FL335.

 

Using a direct from EKSID to NOSTA satisfies EuroControl for validating a flight.

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43 minutes ago, Kosta said:

Maybe adding the DCTs from this forum fixes the issue? Because this is a FRA in the end. And not sure if Navigraph has these, as you read above.

 This is the route (LEPA-LOWW) i get (find route/upper airspace) with the last AIRAC (1703) from Navigraph, and last David's 'PFPX RAD:

 

N0446F380 MERO2A MEROS UN853 LUMAS UM985 EKSID M985 NOSTA DCT NOPMU  DCT ETPUB Q985 MALUG/N0443F370 DCT ABTAN ABTA1

 

I do not know what algorithm PFPX use for find the route, but the airway seems to have priority to directs.

What route PFPX show when you create the route with NavDataPro data?

 

 

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And not only that, but it also seems to nag about it. When validated, says M985 is preceded by EKSID which is not one of its points. So it plans, but fails when validated.

However, when I manually change to this, it's fine:

MEROS UN853 LUMAS UM985 EKSID DCT NOSTA DCT NOPMU DCT ETPUB DCT MALUG DCT ABTAN

Note that I had to change two airways to DCT and that was it.

 

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Hello Kosta,

 

I would suggest backing up the \Public\Documents\PFPX Data\NavData

 

Delete all the contents except navdata.nav, cycle_info.txt and user.nav.

 

Install David's directs file again, the route LEPA-LOWW should plan straight through and validate without change.

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Stephen,

Still the same error, I am now on 1703 + DCTs, and yet it plans over UM985 telling me EKSID is not one of it's waypoints. Doing again the above changes, all is fine again.

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