Goshob 23 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Hi Guys, First I would like to appologize, if similar question was asked before, but I could not find such and I prefer to start a new topic for it. Last year due to implementation of Free Route Airspace rules, some European countries like Italy, Austria, Slovenia, etc. removed the airways through their countries from the charts' database. My question to all of you guys is how do you plan your route, if it goes through, starts or ends in such country? It is obvious that an old cycle can be used in case planning through Route Finder, but what about the plane's database? I personally don't find it very convenient using DCT between way points, with unclear location or missing at all. Hope someone may wish to advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musefan 363 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I use PFPX and I keep my AIRAC cycles up to date. However, in my early simming days I used to use Route Finder, and as far as I can remember, it has a drop down list allowing to select earlier cycles, so you can match whatever cycle is installed on your aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs mopperle 4162 Posted February 14, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Goshob said: I personally don't find it very convenient using DCT between way points But that's the way how it is done. 2 hours ago, Goshob said: with unclear location or missing at all. Can you be more specific what you mean here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 18 hours ago, mopperle said: Can you be more specific what you mean here? Hi, Yes, I can be more specific. The best way is to give an example, which might be more clear for what I mean. Let's follow a flight plan from the real world. It is between Vienna and Budapest (LOWW/LHBP). The plan states: KOXER1D KOXER Z649 XENAK L175 ANEXA ANEXA2J, including SID and STAR. My question is how to program airways Z649 and L175 in the MCDU when they are not existing in the database since cycle 1611? One more "newbie" question please. Is DCT can be considered as a synonym of manual flight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs Tom A320 4915 Posted February 15, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 15, 2017 You would need either an old AIRAC cycle still containing those airways or just use a DCT instead. A DCT (direct) is no synonym for manual flying but a direct connection between two given way points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs mopperle 4162 Posted February 15, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 15, 2017 Just to give you an example you are doing a flight comning somewhere from the north, going sozuth and crossing Slovakia and Hungary. You are flying route on route L620 which and on the border of Slovakia at WPT ROMIS. Now you make a DCT to (e.g.) WPT BADOR to connect to L620 again (in this example). Same for other routing, of course you have to check in which direction a route can be flown: Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Hi, Thank you for the instructions. Now it is clear to me, except the reason why such changes to the AIRAC cycles were applied. If applying such changes continue, very soon sim flying over Europe may remain with DCT only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs Tom A320 4915 Posted February 15, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 15, 2017 These changes happened in real life. If it happens there it is only logical to reflect them also into the simulated world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srcooke 422 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 21 minutes ago, Goshob said: If applying such changes continue, very soon sim flying over Europe may remain with DCT only... That is the target: Quote By the end of 2019, most European airspace is expected to have implemented FRA, with all airspace having this type of operations by 2021/2022. However 'FREE' Route Airspace it is not, there are many restrictions. Further information can be found here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emi 5161 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 39 minutes ago, Goshob said: Hi, Thank you for the instructions. Now it is clear to me, except the reason why such changes to the AIRAC cycles were applied. If applying such changes continue, very soon sim flying over Europe may remain with DCT only... That is actually the target Eurocontrol has set. Until 2020 they want to get rid of airways in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 This seems to be really an ambitious project with lots of benefits. Hope the air traffic safety will be dramatically improved also in order to achieve planned targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs Tom A320 4915 Posted February 15, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 15, 2017 Off topic: why do you think it needs to be "dramatically improved"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Good question. What I feel is that once the planners have the freedom to chose the shortest and most economic airway via a country, without following strictly assigned routes, some places will become overcrowded. This is an immediate premise for mistakes and accidents. The convention itself states similarly: " Operating a FRA environment offers improved predictability thanks to more stable trajectories while at the same time enhancing the use of conflict detection tools". The presumptions above and underlined part of this sentence made me conclude that air traffic safety and coordination has to be improved, no matter that even now some areas under Europe are too much crowded also. A vague look on Flightradar can prove this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 7 hours ago, Tom A320 said: You would need either an old AIRAC cycle still containing those airways or just use a DCT instead. A DCT (direct) is no synonym for manual flying but a direct connection between two given way points. It might be a good idea if item 5.4 of Step by step Tutorial for Airbus A319.../A321 for FSX to be updated with instructions how to use DCT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs mopperle 4162 Posted February 15, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 15, 2017 Well it is mentioned there, in the Airbus it is call DIR TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Hi, Technically speaking the subject DIR TO is explained in section 6 of the manual, which is explaining Vector approach procedure. What I was referring to yesterday was the basic ILS procedure explained with many details in section 5 and especially the way of programming the left MCDU. If I have to be precise, should say that just as a matter of curiosity, I tried to program the route manually using DCT, i.e. way points, without airway. The attempt was not successful. However, the MCDU works very well if a flight plan is loaded as a company route, never mind that DCT is used instead of airway. The flight plan should be checked for discontinuity, anyhow, but this is a normal procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs mopperle 4162 Posted February 16, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 16, 2017 Because we believe this topic has been answered we have closed it. If you have any more questions feel free to open a new topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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