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Mega Airport Frankfurt v2 VAS Use


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I don't understand why the German Airports Team isnt't going to do the same as PADLabs (Aerosoft) with thier ZurichV2 Scenery where you have the ability to switch between 1024px and 2048px textures. I tried to land in Zurich in FSX with the PMDG777 and the iFly 747 with success on 1024px. But as I changed back to 2048px, I had an OOM when turning final onto the ILS. You Guys at Aerosoft announce Products and then they have delay because of I don't know (Like with the CRJ), why don't you use the Time to test the Scenery with FSX because many People still use it and not anyone has the Money to change to P3D because it is pretty expencive and many Sceneries and Aircrafts are officially incompatible. I think you should provide a Solution very quickly or you will lose your FSX Customers.

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vor 25 Minuten, HoodieCraft sagte:

I don't understand why the German Airports Team isnt't going to do the same as PADLabs (Aerosoft) with thier ZurichV2 Scenery where you have the ability to switch between 1024px and 2048px textures. I tried to land in Zurich in FSX with the PMDG777 and the iFly 747 with success on 1024px. But as I changed back to 2048px, I had an OOM when turning final onto the ILS. You Guys at Aerosoft announce Products and then they have delay because of I don't know (Like with the CRJ), why don't you use the Time to test the Scenery with FSX because many People still use it and not anyone has the Money to change to P3D because it is pretty expencive and many Sceneries and Aircrafts are officially incompatible. I think you should provide a Solution very quickly or you will lose your FSX Customers.

 

only one small problem in your "solution": Frankfurt textures are 1024x1024 - maybe you take a look first before "not understanding" that it may be a bit more complicated than you think.

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But basically, he has a point there - with such a complex airport like EDDF, it's not really understandable that it doesn't have a configuration tool (besides the AES traffic configuration tool, which is pretty much standard for Aerosoft sceneries).

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Did a few experiments with EDDF's chronic greedy VAS gluttony and OOMs when you approach EDDF from another destination. Don't think Aerosoft reads (cares) anymore about the topic but maybe one of you will have an idea.

Here is what I found -

  1. In the [Mega Airport Frankfurt 2.0 Terrain\scenery\] folder is a file eddf_aerial.bgl which is a massive 1.5 GB - if you disable this file the VAS jumps up considerably and NO OOMs have been experience with PMDG or Airbus on approach or taxiing to gate ... the 1.5 GB alone is pretty much self explainable for this.
  2. The problem is that, when disabled, the whole area on and around Rwy 07L/25R is covered with trees on the runway an taxi-ways which tells me that either ORBX Global and/or ORBX Europe LC place them there and eddf_aerial.bgl has an exclude component to counter this.
  3. Could it be that there is a conflict between eddf_aerial.bgl and ORBX Global/LC ...? I remember a similar problem with FlyTampa EKCH where the OOM was fixed by renaming certain files that conflicted with ORBX. Once FlyTampa fixed the problem with an update everything was working 100%

:excl: I have NO idea what a file of 1.5 GB is doing there if it only excludes other landclass and scenery because the taxiways and runway are clearly visible underneath the trees when the file is disabled (turned OFF) and is therefore not so much scenery as elevation to get over the bridges and to exclude the default and/or ORBX scenery/LC :excl:

 

Maybe there is a solution, if Aerosoft is willing to investigate if this massive file can be reduced to something more VAS friendly or come in contact with the ORBX guys to try and find out if this could indeed be the troublemaker.

 

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looking in the corresponding terrain/texture folder it seems that this eddf_aerial is mainly landclass and autogen. - lot's of handplaced autogen would create a biiiig file.

as there are no textures (BMP / DDS) in it maybe in connection with OLC Europe / Global Base it picks up some big texture tiles not intended by the dev.

 

btw. there's lot of forrest around EDDF - some alternative tree textures could also be a factor. There are some "HD Trees" around.

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just something that caught my I regarding high VAS usage in the FSL A320 announcement / requirement page

 

Be aware that running the simulator at screen resolutions higher than 1920×1080 will cause significantly increased VAS memory requirements and it is NOT recommended.

 

running FSX on a XHD or multi-monitor environment isn't that unusual these days. Any Chance that's factor in EDDF?

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Are you guys removing the past resolution assignment in the CFG file?  I know this should be done in FSX, and I'm not sure but i assume it's the same for P3D.

 

I've never seen it make that much difference, but then again I've never run at higher than 1920x1080 (soon though!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Increasing the Bufferpoolsize in fsx.cfg seems to help decreasing VAS Usage a bit. With Poolsize = 0 I couldn't  fly a traffic pattern at EDDF with the 737 NGX without OOM after or before landing. With Poolsize = 8.000.000 I've been able to fly 4 patterns and taxi to gate after that with full UT2 Traffic and never got a "high VAS Usage" Warning. VAS was still high with around 89%, but before, it was much worse. Maybe you should also give a try.

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On ‎27‎.‎08‎.‎2016 at 14:46, DanHa sagte:

Increasing the Bufferpoolsize in fsx.cfg seems to help decreasing VAS Usage a bit. With Poolsize = 0 I couldn't  fly a traffic pattern at EDDF with the 737 NGX without OOM after or before landing. With Poolsize = 8.000.000 I've been able to fly 4 patterns and taxi to gate after that with full UT2 Traffic and never got a "high VAS Usage" Warning. VAS was still high with around 89%, but before, it was much worse. Maybe you should also give a try.

 

I don´t have any entry in fsx.cfg subjected to "Poolsize".

Where should this entry be??

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It is a common tweak to add the entry

 

[BufferPools]
PoolSize=0

 

as a section for itself. If you have not applied that tweak yet, the default value is 4.000.000, if I remember right. So you can try adding

 

[BufferPools]
PoolSize=8000000

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On 30.8.2016 at 19:16, DanHa sagte:

It is a common tweak to add the entry

 

[BufferPools]
PoolSize=0

 

as a section for itself. If you have not applied that tweak yet, the default value is 4.000.000, if I remember right. So you can try adding

 

[BufferPools]
PoolSize=8000000

 

Thanks for the hint, DanHa! The thing is that PoolSize=0 usually increases the FPS considerably - so if you set the PoolSize to 8000000, it might increase the amount of free VAS, but also decrease your FPS compared to the PoolSize=0 setting. Difficult decision - but I'll give your PoolSize at least a try. ;) By the way, what FPS do you get at EDDF when flying around with the 737 NGX or any other plane? At EDDF, my FPS usually are slightly below 10, and I have a bit of stuttering and/or lagging, especially when doing a turn on the taxiway or runway.

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After applying the above recommended FSX.cfg Tweak I could not find any improvement:

 

Flew today with PMDG777 from LTBA to EDDF (3hrs flight).

Initial VAS in LTBA was 1200MB. During approach in EDDF I had 150MB with OOM-Alert!

FPS was constantly around 25 (capping at 30)

 

Realy creazy Scenery!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh Boy i am glad i switched to P3DV3.3.5.  I must say i find this scenery outstanding in HD 4K. I switched Autogen Buildings and vegetation to normal but complexity maxed with 15% mytraffic 6 and LOD maxed with medium shadows and sustain 30 fps in the Dash8 and the NGX. 5% Road traffic

With Vector highways and primary roads i have 700mb left VAS with Dash8 and 550mb left with the NGX on approach to 25C and the amazing 25R.I just love to taxi over the bridge 

 

With overcast it drop to 24-25 fps and VAS remain 300-400mb

 

With nightinvironment Germany i have 2-400 mb free VAS

 

AS16 +ASCA

Thanks Michael Moe 

I7-4770K@4.6

SSD EVO 500GB 

DDR3 2400 16GB

W10 64

GTX970SC

 

 

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Hello,

I am just curious to know, is this airport still awaiting a fix, is it still being improved or is considered finished? I am yet to land in EDDF without running out of memory. Nowhere else this happens, only EDDF. 

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On 12.9.2016 at 20:46, kityatyi1 sagte:

Hello,

I am just curious to know, is this airport still awaiting a fix, is it still being improved or is considered finished? I am yet to land in EDDF without running out of memory. Nowhere else this happens, only EDDF. 

 

The last message from Aerosoft on this matter was Mathijs Kok's statement in August that he will ask the EDDF project manager about any possibilities to improve the scenery. See here:

Since then, there were no further updates.  I guess I will write Mathijs again and ask whether there's anything new.

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  • Aerosoft

I do not have any news on this so it means there is for sure no update in the near future. 

 

However I just checked on my own system and I still believe the issue is one that is relative. Let me try to explain. Please keep in mind that the VAS numbers I show are not important on their own. I got loads of VAS because I keep my sim clean. I can honestly say I have only seem OOM errors when testing software. The numbers are not important, the difference between them is all that is important.

 

I can fully understand that people add loads of add-ons to the sim and thus run into issues. What I want to discuss here is the amount of memory that the scenery uses.

 

Let's start at a location far away, Dubai as it default in the sim. You might know it from the great scenery by FlyTampa.

Please login to display this image.

You see when we are there VAS use is 1267 MB (31%.) This is a pretty standard 'base load' for the sim. You see this same percentage on almost all default airports.

 

Now let's jump to Frankfurt, default as it in the sim:

Please login to display this image.

You see we jumped up to 1458 MB (36%). Not a small increase because 200 odd MB's can make the difference between seeing an OOM or not. Clearly in the default simulator this is a location that is demanding. Or better said more demanding then other locations. The base conditions for the scenery designer here are harder.

 

Now let's insert Mega Airport Frankfurt:

Please login to display this image.

VAS demand increased to 1737 MB (43%). That means that the VAS load of the scenery on top of the load of the sim is less than 300 MB (remember form default Dubai to default Frankfurt was 200 MB?). If you compare this to other scenery projects you see it is actually pretty low. Certainly for the amount of polygons. It's lower for example then FlyTampa Dubai. But as they start out on a much lower VAS intensive location you will be much less likely to run into memory issues. That's why comparing VAS use sometimes makes little sense. Compare the base sim with the sim plus the add-on and you can make good comparisons. One reason this actual VAS use is low is because Mega Airport Frankfurt disables the already complex default airport and the complex and detailed surrounding. 

 

But all in all, keeping VAS use low in a location like this and an airport as big as this, is hard. There is no optimization that will solve the issues some users have. If you overload the sim it will crash and because of the location and surrounding you will run into OOM issues here more easy than in other locations. 

 

If there ever will be a update to attack this problem it will mean deleting or simplifying objects. At this moment the developers do not feel that that is a just decision. I agree with them. You might not, but even so, keep in mind that a few customers who reported OOM issue also had them when we asked them to do exactly the same on default EDDF!

 

----------------

 

All the images were made after a restart of P3D, directly to the location shown. All settings are the same (I did NOT know the weather engine would show a different cloud pattern based on location! I did check on that and the weather pattern did not affect the VAS use as long as the same was choose, as was the case here). The copy of P3D is rather clean, very few add-ons installed. And again the actual numbers do not mean a lot, it is the DIFFERENCE that we discuss here.

 

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If anyone is interested in my fsx.cfg file and Nvidia Inspector *.nip file you can follow the link to another thread regarding performance. I think I finally hit the sweet spot between performance and texture quality and NOT having any CTDs or OOMs (OMW it sounds like two STDs) - I've been experimenting with this a lot since FSLabs A320X is out and since I've settled for this settings I haven't had any trouble flying in and out of EDDF. Maybe it helps you.

 

 

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vor 23 Stunden , Terblanche sagte:

If anyone is interested in my fsx.cfg file and Nvidia Inspector *.nip file you can follow the link to another thread regarding performance. I think I finally hit the sweet spot between performance and texture quality and NOT having any CTDs or OOMs (OMW it sounds like two STDs) - I've been experimenting with this a lot since FSLabs A320X is out and since I've settled for this settings I haven't had any trouble flying in and out of EDDF. Maybe it helps you.

 

 

Thank you for this interesting part. I'll sure have a look on it. May I ask which in your opinion is the most important change(s) you did to use EDDF now without OOM? And furthermore do you additionaly still have some files deactivated? I'm still very interessted in buying EDDF for my FSX but due to the many threads here it's still on hold.

 

brgds

Patrick

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@Swisspilot - jip, to be able to fly into EDDF from anywhere I have above mentioned in my fsx.cfg and nip settings and then the following -

  1. Only the airports of departure and arrival are activated in my scenery.cfg file
  2. Water setting in FSX settings is down to 1xHigh and all the other sliders one notch down
  3. If you have ORBX Vector installed, that should be OFF as well

You can also deactivate that massive 1.something GB Landclass file in the Terrain folder but since the above settings I am able to land and taxi to gate without any OOM/CTD. It seems obvious that there will be NO updates for EGLL and EDDF and this is as it is. Don't know what and where Aerosoft is going with their airports because the last few (LSZH, EGLL, EDDT and EDDF) are sure no fun to fly into with FSX except with the settings as prescribed. YES, they are all beautifully designed and looks fantastic but at a serious performance cost.

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I have been reading this topic for a while, hoping that update for EDDF v2.0 is comming soon but I see is not. I have same issue with this scereny, always when I am about to land, I get OOM...all other Aerosoft Mega Airport Scenery work without problems! 

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in P3Dv3.3 the same..i only can use it with clear sky..

 

 

vor 23 Stunden , Terblanche sagte:

 

  1. If you have ORBX Vector installed, that should be OFF as well

 

 

 

what do we miss with Vector OFF ?

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@Floria - to be honest, nothing ... except if you land at an airport on the coast and you want to see a more accurate coastline and/or it is absolutely a necessity to have as many roads and parks etc etc etc eye candy. ORBX VECTOR is wonderful for VFR flying but most 3rd party airports come with their own LC files.

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vor 54 Minuten, Terblanche sagte:

@Floria - to be honest, nothing ... except if you land at an airport on the coast and you want to see a more accurate coastline and/or it is absolutely a necessity to have as many roads and parks etc etc etc eye candy. ORBX VECTOR is wonderful for VFR flying but most 3rd party airports come with their own LC files.

 

ah ok, i will try that out then..

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