Mega Airport Frankfurt v2 VAS Use

[Bert Groner 7]

Gentlemen, good day!

 

I've had some tests now on Windows 10 64 Bit, Intel i7 CPU @ 4.5 GHz, 16 GByte RAM, Nvidia 960 with 4 GByte VRAM and FS X Acc Pack with

 

FS Global Ultimate

FTX Global Base

FTX Global Vector

FTX openLC Europe

EDDF v2

German Landmarks

Egelsbach

737NGX

 

Result: OOM(s)

 

I deactivated FTX openLC Europe = - 300 MByte VAS-usage

I deactivated German Landmarks = +/- 0 MByte VAS-usage

I deactivated Egelsbach = - 100 MByte VAS-usage
I deactivated EDDF_Docking.bgl as mentioned here before = - 300 MByte VAS

 

So I think for the moment it might be one of the possible solutions to deactivate FTX openLC Europe (no negative visual impact though) and EDDF_Docking.bgl to get a save VAS-usage with e.g. the highly demanding 737NGX. I hope EDDF-Docking-bgl can be VAS-usage-minimized and we all can have OOM-free flights.

Best for now!

Bert

 

 

 

[keino333 17]

1 hour ago, Bert Groner said:

Gentlemen, good day!

 

I've had some tests now on Windows 10 64 Bit, Intel i7 CPU @ 4.5 GHz, 16 GByte RAM, Nvidia 960 with 4 GByte VRAM and FS X Acc Pack with

 

FS Global Ultimate

FTX Global Base

FTX Global Vector

FTX openLC Europe

EDDF v2

German Landmarks

Egelsbach

737NGX

 

Result: OOM(s)

 

I deactivated FTX openLC Europe = - 300 MByte VAS-usage

I deactivated German Landmarks = +/- 0 MByte VAS-usage

I deactivated Egelsbach = - 100 MByte VAS-usage
I deactivated EDDF_Docking.bgl as mentioned here before = - 300 MByte VAS

 

So I think for the moment it might be one of the possible solutions to deactivate FTX openLC Europe (no negative visual impact though) and EDDF_Docking.bgl to get a save VAS-usage with e.g. the highly demanding 737NGX. I hope EDDF-Docking-bgl can be VAS-usage-minimized and we all can have OOM-free flights.

Best for now!

Bert

 

 

 

My question for you is are you letting the autogen load?  Even without V2 the autogen over Europe takes a larger percentage of time to load...Just try it at EDDL or Mega Berlin.  Another thing to do is drop FFTF = .01 (if in your CFG) especially if your using HDD.  That tweak primarily benefits SSD. or use FFTF 23 in FSX

[OPabst 2091]

vor 1 hour , Bert Groner sagte:

Gentlemen, good day!

...

I deactivated EDDF_Docking.bgl as mentioned here before = - 300 MByte VAS

 

So I think for the moment it might be one of the possible solutions to deactivate FTX openLC Europe (no negative visual impact though) and EDDF_Docking.bgl to get a save VAS-usage with e.g. the highly demanding 737NGX. I hope EDDF-Docking-bgl can be VAS-usage-minimized and we all can have OOM-free flights.

Best for now!

Bert

 

 

Hi Bert,

sorry, but the EDDF_Docking.BGL is NOT the VAS Killer. What you see by deactivating this BGL much more Autogen around which reduce you VAS usage. So it is a sideeffect of the autogen remove, when this "buggy" file is active.

 

And, I have made a compare on a "simple" FSX installation, more or less default, with Default Cessna and no AI, no UTE etc, compare DEFAULT EDDF with EDDF V2: The Memory EDDF V2 needs more then the default is around 700 MB direct after starting FS with a saved flight full Airport in View.

After some slewing around the memory usage goes up to 900 MB. I don't think, that this is to much for a big airport like EDDF.

 

And I also can't say, what a 737NG is doing, when see comes near to EDDF, when loading much Navdata EDDF has here (Many Waypoint etc). All this need Memory from the VAS.

I hope there are things can be optimized, but I think it is near to the end. But we must see.

 

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Oliver, as I shown, in P3d there is just a slight increase in VAS used when I just load a FLT over EDDF V2 compared to  default EDDF.  300 MBb max. So it seems there is a massive difference between how FSX and P3D handles this.

 

I do agree btw, that there might be some objects that can be simplified a bit but on an airport this size and in this location, there simply is not a lot to gain. 

[Terblanche 118]

@Bert Groner -  what made it possible for me to fly into EDDF in FSX are the following:

1. Turn off airports that you don't use especially if you have ORBX Terrain Scenery e.g. US, UK, Norway etc
2. Bring the water slider down
3. Bring AI traffic down to max 15%
4. Turn off the *.bgl files in EDDF Terrain folder by renaming them

For the rest my system looks very similar to yours accept a massive amount of airports that I have for FSX. I've grouped them into countries in SceneryConfigEditor and it's easy to switch on and off before a flight to EDDF. Haven't had a OOM again [touch wood].

[swap777 14]

Hello All, I bought this product without thinking of the side effects that it had. I have P3D V2.5 with ORBX FTX Global Base+Vector, ASNV4.1, REX4 Essential+Overdrive, REX Soft Clouds/Texture Direct also I have switched off my AI Traffic(IVAO MTL makes it redundant). I first flew a 11hr from VHHH to EDDF and while landing, suffered a OOM in a PMDG 777. Then second time, I decided to try it again with Ifly 747V2.0.1 but before I could taxi to the runway for my departure to VABB, my P3D basically did a CTD. and the third time again when I tried to fly a flight from EDDF to KORD in again a PMDG 777, I suffered a OOM chime again and decided to shut my sim before it went Kaboom. However on a flipside, when I flew two flights from EDDF to T2G EDDM with  AS A321 and another with EDDF to Aerosoft EFHK using AS A321, there wasnt any OOM. This was bizarre and surprising. Also my rig is decent level with the specs being as follows:

Lenovo Y50-70

Windows 10 64-bit

I7-4710HQ 2.5Ghz base and 3.5Ghz overclocked

Nvidia GTX960M

16GB DDR3L RAM.

Is there something I may be doing wrong?.......please help as Frankfurt is one of my beloved airports and I wanna fly as usual without any OOM's.

 

[mopperle 4162]

Regarding memory management P3Dv2.5 is as bad as FSX. Would be interesting to see how much memory is already eaten up at the start of those flioghts where you get an OOM.

[Dimon 3]

Actually, in P3D32. AI Traffic does not effect VAS usage. 

 

I also must say that despite my initial desire to put a blame on Aerosoft/GAP, the entire Western/Cental Germany + Switzerland area is one big VAS sucker even without UTX or other sceneries. T2G EDDM, for example, has only ~300Mb better VAS management, but it obviously has less detailed terminal modelling, but its textures have higher resolution.
 

Thus, the only viable solution here, GAP team would need to offer an option for the airport structures with less details. For example, GAP unique trademark, such as custom-made jetways, should be perhaps standardized. 

[keino333 17]

50 minutes ago, mopperle said:

Regarding memory management P3Dv2.5 is as bad as FSX. Would be interesting to see how much memory is already eaten up at the start of those flioghts where you get an OOM.

I concur...its the reason why I moved to V3 and now V3.2.  Memory management is significant.  I would implore that swap777 strongly considers the upgrading (Client upgrade left 420 addon scenery in place).  Here's what I see remaining (VAS) by time I take to the sky in the iFy747v2.01.  982MB taxing out down to 732MB at Rwy25C. 

• Autogen trees - maxed (told to change this to very dense to save on vas)
• Autogen  building dense
• Scenery Complexity maxed (told to change this to very dense to save on vas)
• Special effects medium.(told to max this for FSFX packages)
• Water - medium
• Shadows - medium
• Every thing else in sim to match these high setting
• AI - using UT2 Airlines  at 51% and GA at 31%
• Cars 16% boats 21% and 25% respectively
• Active sky next and REX4 textures
• Texture Resolution 2048
• Aircraft shadows  on (including AI)
• Dell-T3500
• I7-980X 6 core
• GTX MSI 980
• 32GB Ram

Again at EDDF V2 I leave the ground with 700+MB remaining

 

(NO TWEAKS in CFG)

 

 

 

Please login to display this image.

 

[Eldmd 1]

Just wanted to chime in regarding VAS usage.

Was afraid after browsing this Forum regarding the VAS usage, but took the plunge.

 

My Specs - Windows 7 Pro 64bit, i5 Sandy bridge 2500 3.3 OC to 4.5, NVidia 580 graphics card, 8 GB RAM.

Extraneous running Windows programs & processes shut down via a customized Alacrity PC profile. FSX Config file tweaked to Nick N's suggestions.

 

Recreated UAL690 from KEWR to EDDF using the PMDG777.

FSX-MS w/ SP2, ASN, Rex Soft Clouds & Water, FTX Global, Ultimate Terrain. PreciptFX, Radar Contact. It was overcast & raining at EDDF. ASN in historical mode (force to simtime)

 

All scenery off except for Flightbeam, FSDreamteam airports (KJFK, KORD, KDEN, KPHX, KIAH, KDFW, KLAS, KLAX, CYVR, PHNL).

Used Imaginesim KEWR (although FS9 scenery, works in FSX), DDesign Manhattan Demo, and of course the new EDDF.

 

Settings as follows -Level of detail Med, Mesh 100, Resolution 5m, Texture 60, Water 2XLow, Scenery Complexity Extremely Dense,

Autogen Sparse, UT2 traffic at 70% (gen aviation off), Airport Vehicle min, Road Vehicles 4%. Cloud layers 4, 500X500 Cloud Textures,  No interior or exterior shadows.

VAS around 2.4 from beginning all the way to about 6 miles out from EDDF, when it shot up to 3.42. But, I made it to engine shutdown and AES jetway activation.

No OOM. Frames averaged around 18-19 at EDDF still smooth, (by the way frames were around 13-14 at KEWR).

[Bert Groner 7]

Good morning folks!

 

Thanks for the hints, Oliver and Terblanche...

 

So what we have here is divied in two parts: One hasn't got any problems with the VAS (like my lucky freelance author who performs the review) and on the other hand we have many users with OOM's. So this is a case which might be triggered by the user's system's itself? What is the reason for this huge difference? Massively installed other sceenries like on my test pc? Will have a try with SimStarter and/or SceneryConfig Editor.

Best!

Bert

[mopperle 4162]

Another hint for excessive VAS usage: the weather.

Imagine the following: nice weather with less clouds at your departure airport but bad weather at destination with lots of clouds(layer) and this with 2k or 4k resolution. Guess what you get.

[OPabst 2091]

On 1. Juni 2016 at 09:33, Bert Groner sagte:

Good morning folks!

what we have here is divied in two parts: One hasn't got any problems with the VAS (like my lucky freelance author who performs the review) and on the other hand we have many users with OOM's. So this is a case which might be triggered by the user's system's itself? What is the reason for this huge difference? Massively installed other sceenries like on my test pc? Will have a try with SimStarter and/or SceneryConfig Editor.

 

 

 

Why does a BMW cost for one person 50.000 Euro, for the other 90.000 Euro?

Because there are may options available you can select. Some makes sense other not. But all cost Money.

 

Some in FS, there many switches you can select, some are needed and are important, others are more nice to have. But every switch needs memory when selected.

So, when you select all, because you want all, then it is maybe to much for the limits.

 

Weather with HDDD Textures and dense clouds, UTE with all option on even smallest streets an lakes on, HDDD Landclass replacements, 1m dense Mesh, AI with special different Deliveries and original Aircraft numbers on it ....

We can continue this endless.

Who takes care about all this possible switches and only use such really needed for the type of flying he is doing, will have no issues.

 

When I fly somewhere in the nowhere 1000 feet above the trees between small airports, I can use all switches making the environment nice and dense.

When I fly a heavy system deep airliner in 30000 feet from large airports in a dense urban area, I must reduce parts, because it is not needed to see the cow on the field eating the grass.

 

 

 

 

 

[jmorvay1971 11]

14 hours ago, keino333 said:

I concur...its the reason why I moved to V3 and now V3.2.  Memory management is significant.  I would implore that swap777 strongly considers the upgrading (Client upgrade left 420 addon scenery in place).  Here's what I see remaining (VAS) by time I take to the sky in the iFy747v2.01.  982MB taxing out down to 732MB at Rwy25C. 

• Autogen trees - maxed (told to change this to very dense to save on vas)
• Autogen  building dense
• Scenery Complexity maxed (told to change this to very dense to save on vas)
• Special effects medium.(told to max this for FSFX packages)
• Water - medium
• Shadows - medium
• Every thing else in sim to match these high setting
• AI - using UT2 Airlines  at 51% and GA at 31%
• Cars 16% boats 21% and 25% respectively
• Active sky next and REX4 textures
• Texture Resolution 2048
• Aircraft shadows  on (including AI)
• Dell-T3500
• I7-980X 6 core
• GTX MSI 980
• 32GB Ram

Again at EDDF V2 I leave the ground with 700+MB remaining

 

(NO TWEAKS in CFG)

 

 

 

Please login to display this image.

 

No tweaks in the cfg...now there's the answer.

 

Great shot by the way.

[aniiran 6]

I have not experienced any OOMs at Mega Airport Frankfurt V2.  I even have NE Germany.  What I am seeing is most people are using complex aircraft.  I believe this is the actual problem.  If I use Francios Diores PA Airbuses or the TDS 737s with the Alejandro cockpits.  I have no problem at any airport no matter what my cloud draw distance in ASN 4.1.  I have also learned that because Frankfurt is so busy, its a bad idea to use anything above 33% AI traffic.  At the bigger airports I have general aviation set to zero. I also have my auto gen set to sparse. 

 

However. even if i do max sliders and use Airbus X I get stutters that are pretty bad, but no OOMs to date.  

 

i7 4710m 3.2 GHz. 16 GB RAM Nvidia GTX 970M 6GB

[Cee-Jaay 13]

Hi @Terblanche I was about to suggest going through the bgl's in EDDF and turning them ".off" one-by-one to detect which are the ones have the most impact on VAS.

 

Two points to add to my previous posting in another thread, regarding performance testing between this and the previous version of EDDF:

 

Firstly, In this thread it was indicated that SimStarter was considered "mandatory" by AS when using their products. That's new to me. I'd expect this to be indicated formally and explicitly by Aerosoft - if it's what was mean't. Perhaps it should be offered bundled with those scenery packages?

 

Secondly, VAS comparisons with default EDDF aren't as relevant as comparisons with earlier AS versions. Mathijs asked how it should be measured & that'd be my recommendation regarding establishment of non-functional (performance) requirements.

 

With several recent releases encountering similar issues suggests to me that VAS usage isn't as tightly managed in new projects. Something seems to have changed, but what hasn't changed is the 4Gb limit in FSX and most common complex aircraft in use (Airbus, 737NG) have been around for a few years.

 

It may be helpful to allow consumers to still obtain previous versions of recent releases if they find the new ones a problem.

 

 

 

[sanyok 9]

It runs better in P3D v3.3.

Ironically, 3.3 being a very VASy P3D version, but EDDF is doing well in it. I flew there twice with better VAS results.

[FWAviation 484]

Here's an interesting message from the people at FSDG who already worked together with Aerosoft: http://www.airdailyx.net/fsnewsbreaker/2016/6/4/fsdg-marsa-alam-v11-released

 

So they are offering a new version of their recently released Marsa Alam scenery, with decreased texture space, better compression of aerial images, a so-called "airliner option" etc. - and all this results in a decreased VAS use of up to 35 %, compared to the initial version (which was released only a few days ago!). I find this quite astonishing, and while Marsa Alam sure is a much smaller and less complex airport than EDDF and it might have been designed with different techniques than EDDF, maybe one can learn a few tweaks from them which might be applicable also to EDDF? I think what is missing in particular for EDDF is a configurator with more options than the current "summer or winter texture" and traffic options.

[FWAviation 484]

vor 5 Minuten, AirbusCG sagte:

 

mmh, no. This just means that their previous version was not optimised

 

Just like PMDG who could spare 300mb of VAS with their 777 with one update. Think about it: Does it mean they found some magic new technique which previously no one knew about or did they just find some time to optimise their product? lol

 

Who says that EDDF v2 is already fully optimised? I think it might be worth for the German Airports team to have a look into what FSDG did in order to tweak its scenery. And also, this doesn't alter the fact that the possibilities to configure EDDF v2 as a user are, so far, very sparse and surely could get a bit more advanced.

[chkl 34]

On 5/31/2016 at 10:28 AM, Dimon said:

Actually, in P3D32. AI Traffic does not effect VAS usage. 

 

 

How is this possible?

[pgreenwo 117]

Finally managed to land at EDDF - 500mb spare in the A319. 

 

I had a few OOMs yesterday as the ASN weather was stormy with heavy cloud. Today much clearer weather assisted a smooth landing without a reboot.

 

I do hope there is a VAS solution soon for EDDF as like many I can land at other airports with heavy weather with no issue (EGLL etc)

[Cooper382 52]

On ‎31‎.‎05‎.‎2016 at 16:20, Bert Groner sagte:

Gentlemen, good day!

 

I've had some tests now on Windows 10 64 Bit, Intel i7 CPU @ 4.5 GHz, 16 GByte RAM, Nvidia 960 with 4 GByte VRAM and FS X Acc Pack with

 

FS Global Ultimate

FTX Global Base

FTX Global Vector

FTX openLC Europe

EDDF v2

German Landmarks

Egelsbach

737NGX

 

Result: OOM(s)

 

I deactivated FTX openLC Europe = - 300 MByte VAS-usage

I deactivated German Landmarks = +/- 0 MByte VAS-usage

I deactivated Egelsbach = - 100 MByte VAS-usage
I deactivated EDDF_Docking.bgl as mentioned here before = - 300 MByte VAS

 

So I think for the moment it might be one of the possible solutions to deactivate FTX openLC Europe (no negative visual impact though) and EDDF_Docking.bgl to get a save VAS-usage with e.g. the highly demanding 737NGX. I hope EDDF-Docking-bgl can be VAS-usage-minimized and we all can have OOM-free flights.

Best for now!

Bert

 

 

 

Hi Bert,

 

thank you for the hint. I have deactivated open_LC, Frankfurt-Hahn and Egelsbach too and what should I say. It's possible to fly into EDDF now without an OOM. 83% of VAS Usage.

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[crash 0]

This airport is is beautiful, but it is also a VAS killer.  I run FSX Accel with ASN/REX, UTX and GEX at 1024.  Using my PMDG 777 I always stop the flight at around 200 miles out, save it then restart FSX and land.  I do this for all my airport sceneries.

 

As soon as I landed at 7R, started to taxi then got the VAS crash.  I'm not turning off my UTX or GSX...shouldn't have too.  I'm not turning off my REX, especially when I'm running all textures at 1024.  There is nothing I can lower to even run this scenery.  I'm sorry but this was definitely a waist of money for me, sorry.  Anyways, win some lose some. 

[FWAviation 484]

It has become quite silent from the Aerosoft front. I guess that it's because there's nothing to report - but can you at least tell us whether the German Airports team is already having a look into the VAS problems and additional features for individual configuration?

[Cargostorm 98]

Last weekend I did a couple of tests flying from UK2000 EGLL to EDDF v2 with PMDG 777, VFR Germany and 3rd party autogen "Geoszene" active. I could reproduce OOM errors in P3D 3.3.5 and even watch how VAS drops until the error message popped up. Deactivating EDDF_docking.bgl had no effect on VAS. In this test, the 3rd party autogen addon "Geoszene" was active. Already on final I could see the black textures of the airport buildings hinting to low remaining VAS. I found out however, when I lowered the LOD radius from ultra to medium (default) and deactivated "Geoszene" I could gain 250-300MB, which helps at least to finish the flight. As Geoszene is fantastic for VFR, disabling it for IFR is no issue. Free VAS when starting at EDDF is 1.2 GB, which is normal and a good value.

 

I also realize that the APIS,  Aicraft Positioning and Information System, at the gate depends on camera position and not on aircraft position. Thus, when sitting on the captain or FO seat, when following the left/right arrows of the APIS, the front wheel and hence aircraft is misaligned and NOT on the yellow line. I would prefer that the docking system would depend on the aircraft position rather than the camera position. If you sit in the FO seat, the aircraft is otherwise misaligned to the left, and on the captain's side to the right.