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Mega Airport Frankfurt v2 VAS Use


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6 hours ago, Er!k said:

What are your specs?

Hi Erik:

Here you are. Btw, EDDF v2 is the only scenery that gives me the stuttering and FPS variations.

Ed

 

Prepar3D v3.2 - Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64 Bits

Rig: Corsair 600T Graphite - ASUS MBoard X99 Deluxe - CPU Intel i7-5820k 6-cores - 32 MB DDR4 SDRAM - MSI Nvidia GeForce GTX980 4 GB - 2 x SSD Crucial 1 TB + 1 HDD Seagate 2 TB + 1 HDD External Seagate 2 TB

Monitor HP2511 27" - Mouse Razer Ouroboros - Keyboard SteelSeries SHIFT - BOSE Companion 5 w/Subwoofer  - PSU Corsair RM1000W - Bluray LiteOn - Headset Corsair Vengeance 2000 Wireless - Saitek X52Pro

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3 hours ago, nickpap89 said:

FSX:SE and 

 

59 minutes ago, edpatino said:

Hi Erik:

Here you are. Btw, EDDF v2 is the only scenery that gives me the stuttering and FPS variations.

Ed

 

Prepar3D v3.2 - Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64 Bits

Rig: Corsair 600T Graphite - ASUS MBoard X99 Deluxe - CPU Intel i7-5820k 6-cores - 32 MB DDR4 SDRAM - MSI Nvidia GeForce GTX980 4 GB - 2 x SSD Crucial 1 TB + 1 HDD Seagate 2 TB + 1 HDD External Seagate 2 TB

Monitor HP2511 27" - Mouse Razer Ouroboros - Keyboard SteelSeries SHIFT - BOSE Companion 5 w/Subwoofer  - PSU Corsair RM1000W - Bluray LiteOn - Headset Corsair Vengeance 2000 Wireless - Saitek X52Pro


Ed,

 

Please make sure that you don't have TextureMaxLoad parameter set higher than 9 or 12. Some people fire it up to 30 and while it produce really fast textures' loading, stuttering can be a consequence. 

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vor 3 Minuten, Dimon sagte:

Ed,

 

Please make sure that you don't have TextureMaxLoad parameter set higher than 9 or 12. Some people fire it up to 30 and while it produce really fast textures' loading, stuttering can be a consequence. 

 

I've set it to 5 and still stuttering.

i7 4770K GTX760 16GB RAM

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vor 2 Minuten, Dimon sagte:

 

No 5!!! Only the multiples of 3!!!...6,9,12,15...30. The default value is 6

 

 

Sry, I meant 6, not 5.

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Just did a short flight from EDDM to EDDF and everything was turned OFF ... no AI traffic, road traffic, no ASN or anything else ... hold and behold I was able to land at EDDF and halfway to the terminal "KAPPPAAAAW!!" - another OOM!

Too tired of this. Going to fly to other airports with all the toys (tooters and bells) ON with no problems.

:(

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9 minutes ago, Dimon said:

 


Ed,

 

Please make sure that you don't have TextureMaxLoad parameter set higher than 9 or 12. Some people fire it up to 30 and while it produce really fast textures' loading, stuttering can be a consequence. 

 

This is not set to any value in my CFG file. I'll test it using =6 to see what happens.

Thanks, Ed

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1 hour ago, Dimon said:

 

Right, I knew it, but I tested it already months ago with a high value (=30, as I remember) and the results were not good, so I decided to not to include it on my Prepar3D.cfg. Now testing with lower values (6, 9) to see if there's any improvements at EDDF.

Thanks again,

Ed

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Just departed from Frankfurt with the Aerosoft Airbus X A319, Scenery Details: Normal, Autogen Off, Ultimate Traffic 2 (low traffic settings). Had around 30fps with occasional short drops to 16fps. At cruising altitude I now have a VAS usage of 2,713. Pretty good so far!

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@Fangtooth - I also have no problem departing from EDDF and the FPS is quite okay (20-24 on my system) ... it is the arrival that I have problems with. A flight from EDDM to EDDF about 20nm inbound [VAS=2,545] and 10nm inboud [2,744]. Touch down [3,277] and then something must have spiked because without warning RTD OOM. This flight was with NO AI traffic, ASN, ground traffic and all surrounding airports turned off.

I love the new scenery and the textures on the ground and buildings are awesome, I just can't understand why this is the only airport giving me an OOM and on arrival only as if some gremlin is waiting for you to cross the threshold and then it throttles the last remaining megabytes out of VAS.

Haven't tried the scenery in P3D because my P3D is setup for only VFR flying with light aircraft and mainly over FTX Terrain Regions. FSX is setup for Airline flying and only in and around Europe.

Hopefully somewhere, somehow, we will get to the reason for this because EDDF has been for years my VATSIM base and I would love to return to this airport as my main hub.

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Gents (for example @Fangtooth), it would probably be helpful if you all stated in your "EDDF works/doesn't work without stuttering for me" comments whether you use FSX, FSX Steam Edition or P3D. I more and more get the feeling that those stuttering and OOM problems some of us encounter are mainly a FSX issue, while the users who report good frame rates and no OOMs almost always seem to be P3D users. Alright, there may be exceptions (just like @edpatino who uses P3D and has stuttering nevertheless), but nevertheless, I think, that @nickpap89 really has a point with his comment:

vor 17 Stunden , nickpap89 sagte:

FSX:SE and especially P3D v3.2 cope much better with VAS usage than FSX Boxed edition does. Also keep in mind that LOD radius and 4096 or even 2046 textures enabled in fsx.cfg are a major culprit when is comes to OOM errors. Always start with a clean fsx.cfg and modest settings in the graphics department and then slowly start increasing the sliders until you hit the sweet spot according to your hardware. I suspect that most of you that face OOM errors have a corrupted fsx.cfg or p3d.cfg file with tons of useless tweaks that only make matters worse.

 

That said, @Tom A320: You get very decent VAS results, yes - but you get them in P3D. The interesting question is how EDDF performs in your FSX (if you have it installed). And since you pointed out that VAS usage is inevitably high if you have many add-ons running: How do you explain, then (just like I pointed out in my screenshot posting) that I still get very high VAS usage at EDDF even if I deactivate all other airport add-ons in my FSX scenery library?

 

Regarding your question about my AI traffic, @data63: I use many of the World of AI packages. I just looked it up: The FAIB 747 is included in some of those packages and therefore installed in my FSX, but I'm not sure whether it's the new "texture-heavy" version you are talking about. And regarding your comment about the recent trend to say "this is the worst scenery in terms of FPS and VAS": Well, I never made such a statement before - and as a matter of fact, I get very good frames and VAS usage with recently released Mega Airport Prague from this very company. ;)

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  • Deputy Sheriffs
46 minutes ago, FWAviation said:

That said, @Tom A320: You get very decent VAS results, yes - but you get them in P3D. The interesting question is how EDDF performs in your FSX (if you have it installed). And since you pointed out that VAS usage is inevitably high if you have many add-ons running: How do you explain, then (just like I pointed out in my screenshot posting) that I still get very high VAS usage at EDDF even if I deactivate all other airport add-ons in my FSX scenery library?

 

You are right, I am on P3D, not FSX. I can't do any tests on FSX as I don't have it installed at the moment. I actually expect the VAS usage results on FSX much worse than in P3D. I wrote that already earlier in this topic. P3D simply has the better, more advanced memory management compared to the old FSX. That's why I suggested to think about a sim change. Fact is, that the situation with FSX will not improve. With all releases of huge airports in the past two years I have only seen FSX users struggling with OOMs. 

 

Please don't get me wrong. I am not saying, that there is no potential for improvement in the new EDDF (although I think the German Airports Team already did a great job on that). I am thinking on a more abstract, future orientated level. I haven't seen any OOMs for a long long time, and as you can see from the topic I have linked in post #20, I really tried to run into them). So maybe it is just the time to start thinking about giving up the old FSX which will have more and more problems to cope with the high-end add-ons to come in the future.

 

Aerosoft surely will have a look into the reports here about the increase of VAS usage on approaching EDDF, that have been reported. And if there are possibilities for improvement, they will definitely be done!

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Hi.

Great scenery but I also experienced OOM few miles before EDDF.

I'm using FSX with DX10. No OOMs until know.

Maybe to, as a option include low res textures to minimize memory usage.

Thanks

 

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@Tom A320 - may I then respectfully asks how does FlyTampa (to name one example) manage to roll out large airports with no OOMs? Except the difference in file sizes (Athens 224MB, Vienna 347MB) the FPS is also very good.

One thing I do remember, with FlyTamps's Copenhagen there was an OOM because of a discrepancy between a specific file and ORBX. Once that was renamed (removed) there was no OOMs anymore. FlyTampa fixed that in an update to EKCH. Could it be that with EDDF there is something clashing with the scenery?

When you take off from EDDF everything is working 100%, when you approach and something has already been loaded in the 'memory' then it results in an OOM?

Just a wild guess.

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@Terblanche I am not a scenery designer, so I can't tell, where the differences in detail are. But there is one obvious difference: there exist only a few other airports of the same size as EDDF. It is the 4th busiest airport in Europe. That of course means that it is a beast, like EGLL is. Such airports simply push everything to it's limits within the simulator. 

 

Prior to release it is not possible to test every combination of tools/add-ons with a new scenery. The market is simply too huge for that. But of course you can be rest assured that AS and the German Airport Team will do everything that is possible to fix or improve things that show up after release. 

 

Just give it some time, please.

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It's quite impressive to see, that folks are complaining about missing 3D grass, and on the other side, others are complaining about OOM, and/or bad performance. 

Let's be honest, this scenery is much more detailed than Vienna or Copenhagen, and I mean MUCH more! It's bigger, it has more buildings, and the number of gates alone is an impressive figure. Plus, the vicinity of Frankfurt and the city itself isn't too light on performance either, especially when things like FTX Global and Vector (and maybe a mesh on top) come into play. 

FSX is too old and was not designed to handle all of this. 

If you want to use that many addons, and still get nice performance, it's time to move on. P3D is so much better in every aspect, especially when it comes to OOMs! 

There is a limit of what you can throw at a 10 year old piece of software. I made the switch when the Stockholm scenery of a very well known developer caused OOMs for me on every single flight, no matter which of the heavies I've flown, no matter which settings I've used. 

With reasonable settings, the performance of the new EDDF v2 is a dream in P3D, and there's no need to fear an OOM anymore! 

Think about it, and consider buying and installing P3D. With HDD space being so cheap nowadays, you can have both sims installed. But modern, high end scenery, needs modern hardware and a modern high end sim platform. 

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1 hour ago, Mik75 said:

It's quite impressive to see, that folks are complaining about missing 3D grass, and on the other side, others are complaining about OOM, and/or bad performance. 

Let's be honest, this scenery is much more detailed than Vienna or Copenhagen, and I mean MUCH more! It's bigger, it has more buildings, and the number of gates alone is an impressive figure. Plus, the vicinity of Frankfurt and the city itself isn't too light on performance either, especially when things like FTX Global and Vector (and maybe a mesh on top) come into play. 

FSX is too old and was not designed to handle all of this. 

If you want to use that many addons, and still get nice performance, it's time to move on. P3D is so much better in every aspect, especially when it comes to OOMs! 

There is a limit of what you can throw at a 10 year old piece of software. I made the switch when the Stockholm scenery of a very well known developer caused OOMs for me on every single flight, no matter which of the heavies I've flown, no matter which settings I've used. 

With reasonable settings, the performance of the new EDDF v2 is a dream in P3D, and there's no need to fear an OOM anymore! 

Think about it, and consider buying and installing P3D. With HDD space being so cheap nowadays, you can have both sims installed. But modern, high end scenery, needs modern hardware and a modern high end sim platform. 

So yesterday, I read through quite a few comments in this thread about EDDF performance, citing examples of out of memory errors, so last night, after work, I decided to do a short haul route from EDDF to EGCC.  To clarify, I was using the new version of EDDF and UK2000's Manchester.  For flying, I used the trusty and awesome Aerosoft Airbus A319 w/Lufthansa livery.  For scenery, it was ORBX's FTX Global LC EU and finally, the weather was controlled with ActiveSkyNext and rendering done with REX TD & Soft Clouds.  It was an afternoon flight, so night time operations to check the lighting, but from the gate, I had a wonderful front-row view of the tarmac, taxiways and runways.  After setting up my flight, I pushed back, taxied to RWY07R and took off.  As I was climbing out of EDDF, I tried to be quick and look back at the airport, taking note of fps.  I don't typically do that anymore with P3D as even with lower frames, P3D's performance is still pretty smooth.  I saw that I had low 20's for frames, which still performed pretty well.  My route circled me around to the northwest, and all the while, I took note of the frames.  Facing towards EDDF, tghe frames still ran between low and upper 20's, with spikes into the low 30's.  As I left the area, my frames jumped back up into the upper 30's to low 40's, which is pretty standard for my sim being set at unlimited frames.  Again, I'll clarify that watching or chasing frames in P3D, for me, is a foregone conclusion.  After about an hour and 50 minute flight completed, I had no serious performance issue and, as always, no out of memory error.

 

What I cited above for my sim specs is pretty standard.  I don't use GSX currently, or any other ground operation add-on, but that may change soon.  For now, I leave everything up to the Aerosoft automation built-in to the Airbus, which suits me well.  I should also note that I actively have AI traffic running, around 35%, using MyTraffic X, so it could be assumed my lower frames were due to that, but I am not complaining in the slightest.

 

The real kicker to it all is that my rig is a laptop, running an i7-4790K w/nvidia GeForce 980M.  It may be safe to say that using P3D now, over FSX, provides a larger performance boost, in that P3D manages everything much better.  There was a time where I looked forward to a 64-bit version, but to be honest, the 32-bit version out right now, works perfectly fine on my rig, despite it not being a desktop machine.

 

I want to applaud those who worked on EDDF, this is a much better version and I am impressed with the updated airport layout now, with the 3rd runway, the train station and any other little details to bring this great airport to life.

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1 hour ago, Mik75 said:

 

With reasonable settings, the performance of the new EDDF v2 is a dream in P3D, and there's no need to fear an OOM anymore! 

 

 

Please define "reasonable" settings. If I should cut down on either UTX or GEP3D, then it's un-reasonable, I think

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@jmorvay1971 - I have no problem flying OUT of EDDF when I load a flight with aircraft standing at the gate. It is only when I fly from another airport TO EDDF that the OOM occur. The VAS count 20nm from EDDF is ± 2,700 and then it goes up to 3,200 at 10nm and then it spikes and 'BOOM!' the OOM hits you. Most people, like myself, report good FPS and relatively good VAS when you load a flight and standing or taxiing at EDDF as long as you don't attempt to fly from anywhere to EDDF. Even tried an approach with A2A Comanche and same story just after touch down.

A permanent switch to P3D is probably eminent and the only thing still holding back is the fact that I have to buy the PMDG 738 ($90) and 777 ($135) again (!!) as well as Flight1 Super King200 and GTN750 because of their feeble "excuse" that their P3D installers are worth that amount of money with no discount for FSX users :mellow: but that is their indaba and not relevant to this forum.

In the meantime there are more than enough other airports in and around Europe to use FSX with great effect without any trouble. Maybe there will be a FSX 'fix' for EDDF, maybe not. As they say in the movies, let's see.

Happy weekend!

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I don't use AI traffic, so I can't comment on this subject. But if you use things like FTX Global, FTX Vector and additional mesh, you shouldn't use too high texture resolution, autogen complexity sliders shouldn't be set all to the right,shadowing should be limited to the really "important" things (i.e. cloud and terrain shadows, internal and external shadows) and things like that. 

But that's only my opinion, based on my experience! 

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vor 3 Stunden , Tom A320 sagte:

 

You are right, I am on P3D, not FSX. I can't do any tests on FSX as I don't have it installed at the moment. I actually expect the VAS usage results on FSX much worse than in P3D. I wrote that already earlier in this topic. P3D simply has the better, more advanced memory management compared to the old FSX. That's why I suggested to think about a sim change. Fact is, that the situation with FSX will not improve. With all releases of huge airports in the past two years I have only seen FSX users struggling with OOMs. 

 

Please don't get me wrong. I am not saying, that there is no potential for improvement in the new EDDF (although I think the German Airports Team already did a great job on that). I am thinking on a more abstract, future orientated level. I haven't seen any OOMs for a long long time, and as you can see from the topic I have linked in post #20, I really tried to run into them). So maybe it is just the time to start thinking about giving up the old FSX which will have more and more problems to cope with the high-end add-ons to come in the future.

 

Aerosoft surely will have a look into the reports here about the increase of VAS usage on approaching EDDF, that have been reported. And if there are possibilities for improvement, they will definitely be done!

 

Thank you for your answer, Tom, highly appreciated! And also a thumbs up that you guys are trying to work out where the problem might be - and hopefully will find a solution.

 

I've been musing quite a lot about P3D recently, but since I have the PMDG 737 and 777 for FSX, I somewhat despise the idea of having to pay for them all over again (and even more than for the FSX versions) in order to use them in P3D, too. ;) And I'm also not very comfortable about signing a EULA which contains that I'm actually forbidden to use the software for entertainment purposes. So I hope very much that the OOM (and also FPS) problems at EDDF can be fixed, also for an old FSXer and "mediocre laptop user" like me. If you need any technical specifications regarding my system and my add-ons, please contact me again.

 

And an update on that OOM problem: I just did a flight in the Aerosoft A321 from your Mega Airport Dublin to EDDF, and I just managed to taxi off RWY 25L in Frankfurt and onto the taxiway P bridge over the A3 motorway, and then I got an OOM... VAS usage already climbed up to 90 % during final approach, while I had 66 to 74 % throughout the earlier parts of the flight. The OOM occurred at a VAS usage of 93 or 94 % (according to the projectFly Pilots tool).

 

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