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Mathijs Kok

Aerosoft A318/A319/A320/A321/A330 Professional Preview

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5 hours ago, Antonio Abreu said:

Dear all,

I begin to suspect that the A330 simulator is harder to create than the real aircraft itself!

Now seriously, as an FS fan since around 1986 and a project management professional who was responsible for many software development projects over 20 years (tailor made solutions as well as products, Waterfall and Scrum), I find hard to believe that the best release date estimation Aerosoft can give us (back in April) is "somewhere in 2016". If I ever dared to say something of this magnitude to a customer, my job would be lost in the very same minute, believe me. Make no mistake, I do like Aerosoft products (if you@Aerosoft have doubts about it just check my order list, it should contain around 36 of them by now) but, again, you definitely need to improve project management and / or communication. You see I am waiting for the A330 for too much time and in the last quarter I find me asking myself "If you want to fly long-haul why, in the name of god, you don't simply buy the PMDG 777 and end this saga once and for all?". Every day I find harder to find a good reason not do just that ...

 

One last short note: contracting some declarations I saw in a video on a exhibit a few weeks ago from an Aerosoft's stuff guy, people who wants to fly an A350/A380 really wants to fly long-haul, not to use an A350 to fly from Paris to London. For that you already have an excellent product: the A32x. Aerosoft products are complex simulation products, not games. A simulation aims at ... simulating the reality!

 

All the best for the whole team,

AA

While I respect your opinion as a "project manager" (we can't verify that) I think this post is unnecessary.

You asked yourself why you don't just get the 777, and to that I would say, that's probably the best thing to do right now. Speculating about the release date being impossible won't speed it up. If you truly are losing faith every day just because the product hasn't been released yet, I doubt you truly have the temperament to be a project manager.

 

The A330 is an extremely difficult aircraft to render, which is why it is taking so long. If you're getting wound up about speculated release dates, go find consolation in the CRJ development thread. (I'm sorry Mathjis, don't ban me!)

 

Also in bold, did you happen to mean contradicting? Maybe your obsession for detail and managment could be used to proofread posts meant to be taken seriously before you post them.

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I have the PMDG 777 and its great in its own way, AS is great in their way like PMDG is great in their way.

 

Moderator edited this message due to off topic content

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5 hours ago, Antonio Abreu said:

Dear all,

I begin to suspect that the A330 simulator is harder to create than the real aircraft itself!

Now seriously, as an FS fan since around 1986 and a project management professional who was responsible for many software development projects over 20 years (tailor made solutions as well as products, Waterfall and Scrum), I find hard to believe that the best release date estimation Aerosoft can give us (back in April) is "somewhere in 2016". If I ever dared to say something of this magnitude to a customer, my job would be lost in the very same minute, believe me. Make no mistake, I do like Aerosoft products (if you@Aerosoft have doubts about it just check my order list, it should contain around 36 of them by now) but, again, you definitely need to improve project management and / or communication. You see I am waiting for the A330 for too much time and in the last quarter I find me asking myself "If you want to fly long-haul why, in the name of god, you don't simply buy the PMDG 777 and end this saga once and for all?". Every day I find harder to find a good reason not do just that ...

 

One last short note: contracting some declarations I saw in a video on a exhibit a few weeks ago from an Aerosoft's stuff guy, people who wants to fly an A350/A380 really wants to fly long-haul, not to use an A350 to fly from Paris to London. For that you already have an excellent product: the A32x. Aerosoft products are complex simulation products, not games. A simulation aims at ... simulating the reality!

 

All the best for the whole team,

AA

 

I understand your position but believe me, Aerosoft and virtually every other FS developer out there today follow the same, or even stricter, guidelines regarding announcements of release dates (or ballparks). Take PMDG, for example, where even asking about a release estimate is almost considered reason enough for banning you from their forum (KIDDING but only barely, you get the picture). They won't say it's ready until it's ready. 

 

Why? I've been around in this hobby long enough to realize that when you announce a date candidate and then something unexpected happens (because most developers work on their spare time) that forces you to delay it - from a computer mouse failure to a bad bug found at last minute, they are virtually crucified. 

 

So, not knowing exactly when is actually better for the sake of everyone's sanity. And asking "are we there yet" is equivalent TO POSTING IN ALL CAPS. Just rude.

 

*EDIT*

 

I believe I have been flying TAP liveries of Aerosoft's A32X painted by you. Obrigado! Abraço,

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7 minutes ago, Kihew said:

 

I understand your position but believe me, Aerosoft and virtually every other FS developer out there today follow the same, or even stricter, guidelines regarding announcements of release dates (or ballparks). Take PMDG, for example, where even asking about a release estimate is almost considered reason enough for banning you from their forum (KIDDING but only barely, you get the picture). They won't say it's ready until it's ready. 

 

Why? I've been around in this hobby long enough to realize that when you announce a date candidate and then something unexpected happens (because most developers work on their spare time) that forces you to delay it - from a computer mouse failure to a bad bug found at last minute, they are virtually crucified. 

 

So, not knowing exactly when is actually better for the sake of everyone's sanity. And asking "are we there yet" is equivalent TO POSTING IN ALL CAPS. Just rude.

 

So this is why we don't ask for release dates. Makes total sense I never understood it till now. I'm just hoping the plane will be released by the end of this year. Again I would rather AS take their time than to rush and get a buggy product.

 

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14 hours ago, Antonio Abreu said:

Now seriously, as an FS fan since around 1986 and a project management professional who was responsible for many software development projects over 20 years (tailor made solutions as well as products, Waterfall and Scrum), I find hard to believe that the best release date estimation Aerosoft can give us (back in April) is "somewhere in 2016". If I ever dared to say something of this magnitude to a customer, my job would be lost in the very same minute, believe me.

 

In many software industries this might indeed be the case. I have however never (simply never) seen any FS add-on from any developer being done on a totally fixed schedule. Complex aircraft are famous for being late because you are starting a project with many unknowns and problems you simply do not know how to solve until you start to experiment. I have seen simple things take 500 hours where we thought 5 would be ample.  If you are the project manager that could prevent these things we would gladly like to hire you!  Besides, I do not believe in software development measured in hours, if one of my devs has a great idea I gladly let him work on that, schedule be damned. Some of our best features were done that way. And speaking of the 777, as you might know we are partly publisher for that great add-on and I can tell you that it also had its delays in development. And that is putting it mildly, lol. 

 

If you feel you waited too long (which is strange because we said we hope to release in 2016 and it is not yet 2017) we have to deal with the fact you will not be a customer.  So be it. 

 

I take offence to the comment on communication. We try to be as open and honest as possible, even when it means we make big mistakes once in awhile. Some customers find that very hard to deal with and for those we can move this forum section from view. I do believe that the vast majority of customers do find an honest answer to an honest question much more acceptable than the standard 'it is ready when it is ready'. This is 2016 and you talk to customers, not tell them to shove off. 

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14 hours ago, Antonio Abreu said:

Dear all,

I begin to suspect that the A330 simulator is harder to create than the real aircraft itself!

Now seriously, as an FS fan since around 1986 and a project management professional who was responsible for many software development projects over 20 years (tailor made solutions as well as products, Waterfall and Scrum), I find hard to believe that the best release date estimation Aerosoft can give us (back in April) is "somewhere in 2016". If I ever dared to say something of this magnitude to a customer, my job would be lost in the very same minute, believe me. Make no mistake, I do like Aerosoft products (if you@Aerosoft have doubts about it just check my order list, it should contain around 36 of them by now) but, again, you definitely need to improve project management and / or communication. You see I am waiting for the A330 for too much time and in the last quarter I find me asking myself "If you want to fly long-haul why, in the name of god, you don't simply buy the PMDG 777 and end this saga once and for all?". Every day I find harder to find a good reason not do just that ...

 

Dear Antonio;

Surprisingly for myself, I will defend Aerosoft here. The only thing and the Only thing only that I like about Aerosoft is there communication to the customers. Like you, I have many products from them (not 36 as you do, but maybe 15?), the only reason why I keep coming back here and even considering there products is because of their communication to us. How things are communicated is a different story, but at least they are the only company that I know of that actually communicates what is being in development and lets us voice our opinion whether its good or bad. If Aerosoft wouldnt do that, I would long be gone from there customer base. I only wish that my favorite developers would adopt this open communication style as well (Majestic and Taxi2Gate). 

Regards,

 

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9 hours ago, Kihew said:

 

I understand your position but believe me, Aerosoft and virtually every other FS developer out there today follow the same, or even stricter, guidelines regarding announcements of release dates (or ballparks). Take PMDG, for example, where even asking about a release estimate is almost considered reason enough for banning you from their forum (KIDDING but only barely, you get the picture). They won't say it's ready until it's ready. 

 

This is almost the same here :) lol, look in the CRJ preview :)

 

 

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17 minutes ago, A340-4 said:

Dear Antonio;

Surprisingly for myself, I will defend Aerosoft here. The only thing and the Only thing only that I like about Aerosoft is there communication to the customers. Like you, I have many products from them (not 36 as you do, but maybe 15?), the only reason why I keep coming back here and even considering there products is because of their communication to us. How things are communicated is a different story, but at least they are the only company that I know of that actually communicates what is being in development and lets us voice our opinion whether its good or bad. If Aerosoft wouldnt do that, I would long be gone from there customer base. I only wish that my favorite developers would adopt this open communication style as well (Majestic and Taxi2Gate). 

Regards,

 

As a principle, I totally agree on the advantages of having news, to say so, on a periodic basis. Unfortunately, I think that is not the issue here. The real issue is about release dates forecasts which should be a bit more accurate. I'm not saying that they should state the very release day, but the month would probably be more acceptable. Talking about the year is, from my perspective, just too wide.

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18 minutes ago, Antonio Abreu said:

As a principle, I totally agree on the advantages of having news, to say so, on a periodic basis. Unfortunately, I think that is not the issue here. The real issue is about release dates forecasts which should be a bit more accurate. I'm not saying that they should state the very release day, but the month would probably be more acceptable. Talking about the year is, from my perspective, just too wide.

Well look at the Salzburg project, Innsbruck project, CRJ project.... some others. Maybe thats why? (I honestly dont know) 
 

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Can we actually change the subject? This is off-topic. This is about the A330. Also when will those new pictures be released?

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Come on guys, relax.

 

Let me give you a tip, in order to accept these unknown pix and release dates:

 

- every morning say 50 times "will be out when ready"

- just tell yourself, that release date is 2048, so you'll have a huge surprise when it's out, maybe in 2016, maybe next year.

 

Your brain will work for you.

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1 hour ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

In many software industries this might indeed be the case. I have however never (simply never) seen any FS add-on from any developer being done on a totally fixed schedule. Complex aircraft are famous for being late because you are starting a project with many unknowns and problems you simply do not know how to solve until you start to experiment. I have seen simple things take 500 hours where we thought 5 would be ample.  If you are the project manager that could prevent these things we would gladly like to hire you!  Besides, I do not believe in software development measured in hours, if one of my devs has a great idea I gladly let him work on that, schedule be damned. Some of our best features were done that way. And speaking of the 777, as you might know we are partly publisher for that great add-on and I can tell you that it also had its delays in development. And that is putting it mildly, lol. 

 

If you feel you waited too long (which is strange because we said we hope to release in 2016 and it is not yet 2017) we have to deal with the fact you will not be a customer.  So be it. 

 

I take offence to the comment on communication. We try to be as open and honest as possible, even when it means we make big mistakes once in awhile. Some customers find that very hard to deal with and for those we can move this forum section from view. I do believe that the vast majority of customers do find an honest answer to an honest question much more acceptable than the standard 'it is ready when it is ready'. This is 2016 and you talk to customers, not tell them to shove off. 

Dear Mathijs,

 

I'm totally available to discuss the hiring subject with you but bare in mind that, as all the project managers,  I don't work the "miracles department". :) What I do is try to identify points of potential improvement and always strive to provide possible solutions.

 

Please take no offense about the communication comment. I'm not saying that you should tell your customer to shove off. Of course. We do appreciate your updates. The question is more about release forecasts. As I'm sure you know, and widely speaking, there are two ways of developing a software: based on a fixed calendar (waterfall and derivatives) or the call called Agile methodologies. On the first one schedules are at premium, which is hard to deal with if you are on project with many "open ends" or "unknowns". On the other hand on Agile you have a backlog of features, you develop each one (not coding alone, includes testing and full integration on the product) and can make periodic releases (with internally fixed dates) of the product with increased functionality. But anyway, I'm sure you know all this. Am fully available to further discuss it with you on a constructive basis and on a private manner because I think there's no point on having this detailed discussion on this forum. My contacts are on your customers database.

 

All the best for you and Aerosoft.

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Developing software from scratch up is much more easy than developing addons for a software you didnt make you dont have all information about. I guess that they could give you an exact release date for an Airbus with only the native FSX-Features included.

I for myself know that is very unprofessional do give estimates when dealing with other companies software one have no full documentation about when trying to add new features.

The other possibility would be to give a safe date like the Airbus will be ready on 05.06.2020.  

I am happy with having no release date. When they accomplish something they communicate. So I have a rough idea whats missing and see progress. I am fine with that.

 

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Because this is getting off-topic, i created another thread about this.

Here:

 

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That said maybe it won't be released by the end of this year, well there's 2017 if the world is not ending

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42 minutes ago, Citation X said:

That said maybe it won't be released by the end of this year, well there's 2017 if the world is not ending

The world will be ending, but we don't have a date for that yet.

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vor 2 Stunden , Dudley sagte:

The world will be ending, but we don't have a date for that yet.

 

ridiculous that they are not able to give a date for that too :focus_s:

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Wait: If final painting has (normally) started, isn't this the final approach before release in few weeks? ;)

 

As soon as Crj get's released, A330 will be extremely close I suppose....

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19 minutes ago, Dudley said:

The world will be ending, but we don't have a date for that yet.

 

Id rather not know...

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6 hours ago, iain54 said:

I hope i can put this on my santa list

 

Me too... but somehow I doubt it can fit through my chimney. (gotta talk to my landlord about that).

 

4 hours ago, Citation X said:

 

Id rather not know...

 

Agreed. Sometimes ignorance is bliss...

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9 hours ago, TheBusFlyer said:

Wait: If final painting has (normally) started, isn't this the final approach before release in few weeks? ;)

 

As soon as Crj get's released, A330 will be extremely close I suppose....

 

AFAIK, painting of a jet of the A330's size will take about 1-2 weeks, followed by cabin furnishing ->engine installation ->ground tests  -> rto  -> test flights and finally a customer acceptance flight (although I think Airbus calls them something else).

However as we could see from the pictures that was posted last week, the engines seems to have been installed already and there is no need for cabin furnishing since this is an Aerosoft bird.

 

So shall we say early October? ;)

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6 minutes ago, Griffin78 said:

So shall we say early October? ;)

 

Why not just stick with the statement being already made several times in this topic by Aerosoft about a release time frame? 

 

And this ends (once again) the release date discussion.

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