The Great Catalina Experiment

[altstiff 28]

Yes please, contact me on info@aerosoft-shop.com and I'll send you an FTP login!

Done!

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

You have got to have N101CS - Jaques Cousteau's 6A - in the model palette. There's a French language blog with some useful images here: http://surlezinc.blogs.com/jcp/2006/03/et_si_je_peigna.html

Looking forward to this...

Are we 100% sure this is a Model 6A?

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Hi Mathijs

I have just uploaded my PBY pictures etc. to the Catalina folder on the ftp server, filename "RDAF PBY Aerosoft.zip". And to so666 I would like to say that I posted the pics of the radar because I felt it natural to have the choise to put in a radar in a model equiped with a radar dome. At least that makes sense to me

Regards

Kim

Kim, I can't see the file on the ftp. Could you check again?

[ChrisB 11]

Are we 100% sure this is a Model 6A?

Good point Mathijs... there do appear to be two different "Calypso Cats". One has a distinct hook nose (nose turret version with the turret removed?) and the other more rounded.

The French blog says:

Version cansonet "Le Pélican"

-

Le Consolidated Vultee PBY-6A Catalina des Cousteau était sur le Tage, à Alverca. Aux commandes, Philippe Cousteau, fils du Commandant. L'appareil qui subissait des transformations aux soins de l'OGMA (Oficinas Geras de Material Aeronàutico), effectuait un hydroplanage d'essais afin de vérifier l'étanchéité de la coque après travaux.

L'hydroplanage en question s'effectuait à grande vitesse quand la coque heurta un banc de sable.

I don't know enough French, but you could be right Mathijs. I just checked the FAA registry for N101CS and got this:

Deregistered Aircraft 1 of 1

Aircraft Description

Serial Number 64071 Type Registration Corporation

Manufacturer Name CONSOLIDATED VULTEE Certificate Issue Date 08/26/1974

Model PBY-5A Mode S Code 50004256

Year Manufacturer None Cancel Date 06/18/1981

Reason for Cancellation Unknown Exported To

And yet a model site (Revell: http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/...npbypreview.htm again refers to Cousteau's PBY as a 6a...

And the Accident report on the crash? There it is referred to as a 6a.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record...8-0&lang=en

And then there's this interesting snippet:

Problems and errors:

It has been reported that PBY-6A N48129 (ex BuA 64071) was operated by Air America. This is very unlikely. During the sixties this particular PBY-6A (former BuA 64071) was registered as N6457C to Sonora Flying Service of Columbia CA, who used it as a fire-fighter, and then to Calypso Air Charters of Miami (FAA, US Civil Aircraft Register of 1 January 68, p. 1036). Only in 1968/69, was it re-registered as N48129 to Carl W. H. Jurgens of Dominica (FAA, US Civil Aircraft Register of 1 July 69, vol. II, p. 863). In the mid-seventies, the aircraft became N101CS with the Cousteau Society (Legg, Consolidated PBY Catalina, p. 267). So the period of a use by Air America would have been between 1968/69 and 1975. But the official Flight Operations Circulars of Air America covering that period, which are preserved at the Air America Archives, do not mention a PBY-6A N48129. Of Air America’s two PBY-5As, one had been scrapped and the other was on long term storage during that period. So, probably N48129 never left the Caribbean area and never flew with Air America.

Which comes from a VERY USEFUL find here: (PDF file)

http://www.utdallas.edu/library/collection.../Leeker/pby.pdf

And finally another good and useful find on http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/thirdseries7.html

63993/64411 Consolidated PBY-6A Catalina

.....

64071 (c/n 2141) to civil registry as NC48129 apparently in 1945 sold to unknown parties

then to Sonora Flying Service of Columbia, CA as N6457C and flew as tanker E 49. Next

with Calypso Air Charters of Miami, FL (1963-1969). During this period it next

was registered to Carl Jurgens of Dominica as N48129. Delivered from Arizona to Dominica

Feb 1968, In open storage at Ft Lauderdale, FL 1971-1974. Then it went to

American Equipment funding, Wilmington, DE in 1975. Then N101CS with Cousteau Society.

Crashed in River Tagus, Portugal Jun 28, 1979, killing Philippe Cousteau, son of

Jean Cousteau. The aircraft nosed over during a high speed taxi run after a water landing, to

check the hull for leakage. The Catalina turned upside down, causing the

fuselage to break behind the cockpit. The wing separated from the fuselage and

the left engine broke off, penetrating the captain's side of the cockpit.

Wreckage reported Museo do Air, Alverca AB, 1992. It has been reported that N48129

was operated by Air America, but this is unlikely.

So, the records favour a 6A... but with that nose? And the Tail? I don't know... could a 5A have been modified? You tell me. Could the 6A have been moified to give that different shape?

[ChrisB 11]

BTW - seeing as how even the FAA think it may be a 5A...

I sent them a message to ask about it. Who knows, but if I get a definitive answer, you'll be first to know. But for sure, the Cousteau Cat looks like a turretted model with the turret removed and some form of cover panel added. It may mean a slight model mod Mathijs...

[RADIOMAN 0]

If we are going to have and older model it seems to me that we should get analogic radios, those digital ones look out of place.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

If we are going to have and older model it seems to me that we should get analogic radios, those digital ones look out of place.

No, on the older models the radios were not on the dash but on a different compartment and as we only do the cockpit area (adding more would simply put too much strain on an already stressed FSX) you wont be able to see it. As you might need it we'll replace it with a pop up radio set, either the standard set or the DC3 radio.

The bendix king sets however are pretty old these days, lol. I doubt they are digital actually.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Kim, I can't see the file on the ftp. Could you check again?

Ignore me, found them.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Gents, based on your suggestions we have now the following list:

PBY-5

VA703 WQ-M

Canadian Vickers GR-IIa

Catalina_IIA.jpg

PBY-5

A24-64 OX-O 'The Dabster'

43 Squadron Roayl Australian Airforce

PBY_77_WalkAround.jpg (top one)

PBY-5A (late, with modified tail)

G-BLSC UK Airforce

Consolidated, 097480.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...inct_entry=true

PBY-5A (early)

C-DPQL 433915 USAF white livery,

Canadian Vickers Canso

http://www.catalinabookings.org/gallery.asp

PBY-5A (early)

G-PBYA (CV263), formerly C-FNJF

Duxford Airfield, Cambs, England (previously at Nanaimo, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada)

http://www.catalinabookings.org/gallery.asp ,

http://www.deltaweb.co.uk/eagles/shows/duxford05_05.jpg

PBY-5A (late, with modified tail)

PH-PBY (16-218) Karel Doorman

Stichting Catalina (Leystad)

http://www.catalina-pby.nl/site/index.php?...m&Itemid=55

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...inct_entry=true

PBY-5A (late)

C-FPQL Canadian Warplane Heritage

Canadian Vickers Canso

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...inct_entry=true

PBY-5A (late)

C-FOFI Buffalo Airways

Canadian Vickers Canso

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...inct_entry=true

PBY-5A (early)

N101CS, Cousteau (images alrerady send)

http://cansonet.free.fr/Utilisateurs/Coust...y_cousteau.html

PBY-6A

L-866 or /L-868

Royal Danish Airforce (with the radar dome)

Images being uploaded

PBY-6A

VH-PBZ, Historical Aircraft Restoration Society (HARS)

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...inct_entry=true

[Thrud 0]

wow, no authenic black cat? i'm surprised

[ChrisB 11]

Don't panic... I'll have Air America and a few black cats on my "to paint" list if Mathijs brings out a paintkit...

[Thrud 0]

whew, thanks Chris. it thought we'd be stuck with these modernized slick nose versions without turrets, and some of those even have 1 piece bubble type blisters.

they might as well model a Sopwith Camel with a bubble canopy, a merlin in the nose, and a glass cockpit. They may call it a Camel, it may be a biplane, but it's not a Camel.

example:

the difference between this Mustang

and this Mustang

which one of these is more of a mustang? and which one do you think of when someone says "show me a picture of a mustang"

i hope you see the analogy

[ChrisB 11]

Oh, I don't know - the Reno air racer is just as mustangy...

As for turretts, my paints won't be able to paint a turret in if there isn't one modelled. Sorry.

[ChrisB 11]

But hey - I have just followed all those image links and you're right - there'aren't any with a front turret. That would be a shame indeed.

[kimdahl 0]

Hi all

I would also like to vote for an authentic 'Black Cat' version with a front turret. Some of the early Cats of the RDAF (5A's) also had turrets.

Best regards

Kim

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

whew, thanks Chris. it thought we'd be stuck with these modernized slick nose versions without turrets, and some of those even have 1 piece bubble type blisters.

they might as well model a Sopwith Camel with a bubble canopy, a merlin in the nose, and a glass cockpit. They may call it a Camel, it may be a biplane, but it's not a Camel.

example:

the difference between this Mustang

and this Mustang

which one of these is more of a mustang? and which one do you think of when someone says "show me a picture of a mustang"

i hope you see the analogy

Neither... for me the only REAL good looking Mustang is the one with the original cockpit, so not the bubble one. That original one is soo sleek and so typical.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Hi all

I would also like to vote for an authentic 'Black Cat' version with a front turret. Some of the early Cats of the RDAF (5A's) also had turrets.

Best regards

Kim

Okay, gimme a good example then.

[kimdahl 0]

What kind of example do you call 'good'? I don't have any construction drawing with guns etc, but one of my RDAF paint scheme drawings shows a PBY-5A with a turret-like construction in sideview, and I have a few pictures of a PBY-5A with this construction. I will post them later today. But I am sure that some of the other guys in this forum can find equally good (or even better) historical examples with turrets too.

Regards

Kim

[SkyMaster 0]

Here's a link to some wartime shots. There may be other shots elsewhere on this site as well.

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/photo4.htm

Some more:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1...PBY/walk291.htm

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Here's a link to some wartime shots. There may be other shots elsewhere on this site as well.

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/photo4.htm

Some more:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1...PBY/walk291.htm

I think there are at least 3 type of nose turrets, the one most used is the bubble type. But I really am cautious here, as these are very open structures it also means we got to model part of the interior and if we do ther front turret do we also need to do the two side gunners and the rear gunners etc? Droppable bombs etc... All of that was no in our specs and not covered by the contracts we got now.

So I am not promising anything, perhaps something now, perhaps something later. Our base idea was always, as with all our other aircraft, to model the ones that are still flying, the ones that people see at shows, the ones you can use in FSX (that is based in modern days). There very few cats flying with guns or even with turrets. We build for FSX, not for museums. But who knows.

I am willing to compromise to do an older type VC with instruments that are older though. Without GPS etc. We'll do popup radios as we do not do the area behind the cockpit.

[Iron.Eagle 0]

hmm... i must say, i didn't know the Catalina before... but it becomes more and more interesting in my eyes.

do you already know how many missions will be enclosed? those few missions for the standard float planes in FSX were quite amusing but they were not many...

[Guest Dag]

Mathijs;

I did send you pics of the turreted one we have here a while ago, with the smaller radar, compared to the RDAF one?

I believe that's the most common late war/post war turret type. Basically it has a tunnel like perspex part on top and the RNoAF ones did not feature a gun post war.

These guys did air rescue and anti sub work and flew several times a year to Spitzbergen/Svalbard. I can get more pics of this variant if needed as I believe the one we have here has been even further restored.

[kimdahl 0]

Hi all

As I promised aerlier today, here are some pictures (all from the Alf Blume Collection, and published with Alf's permission). To make things more complicated, the RDAF PBY-5A's had at least two different variants of nose turrets, and as Dag has noticed, a smaller radar dome than the final PBY-6A version:

And finally two examples of the second type of turret:

Best regards

Kim

[Thrud 0]

The video i sent you had all the mesurements for the nose turret (PBY-5a with eyeball style turret), the inside, and how it worked. you can read all the name plates (for the skinners) inside there. Is there missing data? i don't think i missed anything. i know it would be extra work to model the interior of the nose turret and the blisters, but the data is in that video i sent if you choose to use it. At least make the external model correct. i bet if you took a poll, more would prefer the war time versions than the chopped up modified civilian versions.

If you have any holes in your data, tell us what you need. Let the community help you. That's why they are here. you have 7916 registerd users on this forum alone, not to mention others in other forums. That is a pretty good resource.

[MCDesigns 2]

I understand the issues of making the turreted version, but I feel it should be included for all the warbird lovers, museum or not.

here are some good image

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...inct_entry=true