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BeaverX - Turn Coordinator and rate one turns


Xiderpunk

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Have enjoyed flying the BeaverX in past couple of weeks but have one fairly significant problem:

The turn coordinator has standard marks for rate 1 turns.. however these are far from correct. Carrying out a rate 1 turn according to those markings in fact ends up around 4 minutes!

I practice flying in IMC frequently in FSX mainly to keep more current in my real life flying and therefore consider this to be fairly critical, it has forced me to adopt other aeroplanes for flying in IMC.

Please can this be looked at and and accurate markings placed on the gauge?

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  • Aerosoft
Have enjoyed flying the BeaverX in past couple of weeks but have one fairly significant problem:

The turn coordinator has standard marks for rate 1 turns.. however these are far from correct. Carrying out a rate 1 turn according to those markings in fact ends up around 4 minutes!

I practice flying in IMC frequently in FSX mainly to keep more current in my real life flying and therefore consider this to be fairly critical, it has forced me to adopt other aeroplanes for flying in IMC.

Please can this be looked at and and accurate markings placed on the gauge?

I'll look into this soon, thanks for reporting it.

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Many thanks :-)

Done some experiments and I got the feeling there is more in play. First off all I found all default aircraft were very strange in this, using the turn coordinate gauge you don't get close to 2 minutes turns.

Editing the AP of the Beaver I found that I need a bank angle of 18 degrees at 2000' and 135 knots IAS to get a good 2 minute 360 circle. If I edit the bitmap to match these values would that solve your problem?

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That would be great! A rate one turn bank angle always changes slightly with the airspeed, usually it is around 15 - 20degrees of bank so 18degrees sounds absolutely right at that airspeed.

In fact there is a good and more scientific method for working out bank angle required for rate one turn:

1. If indicated airspeed is in MPH, divide airspeed by 10 and add 5 for standard rate turn. Ex. IAS is 110mph, divide by 10 equals 11, plus 5 equals 16 degrees (110/10=11+5=16 degrees) bank angle for a standard rate turn.

2. If indicated airspeed is in knots, divide airspeed by 10 and add 50% of that value. Ex. IAS is 100kts divided by 10 equals 10 plus 5 (50% of 10) equals 15 degrees (100/10=10+5 (50% of 10) =15 degrees) bank angle for a standard rate turn.

So in your tests, 135/10 = 13.5 + 6.7 = 20 degrees

This of course assumes that the aircraft is in balance and does differ slightly from airplane to airplane. Therefore if the marks on the TC are altered to 18 degrees in theory they should scale well accross airspeeds.

Thanks again.

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That would be great! A rate one turn bank angle always changes slightly with the airspeed, usually it is around 15 - 20degrees of bank so 18degrees sounds absolutely right at that airspeed.

In fact there is a good and more scientific method for working out bank angle required for rate one turn:

1. If indicated airspeed is in MPH, divide airspeed by 10 and add 5 for standard rate turn. Ex. IAS is 110mph, divide by 10 equals 11, plus 5 equals 16 degrees (110/10=11+5=16 degrees) bank angle for a standard rate turn.

2. If indicated airspeed is in knots, divide airspeed by 10 and add 50% of that value. Ex. IAS is 100kts divided by 10 equals 10 plus 5 (50% of 10) equals 15 degrees (100/10=10+5 (50% of 10) =15 degrees) bank angle for a standard rate turn.

So in your tests, 135/10 = 13.5 + 6.7 = 20 degrees

This of course assumes that the aircraft is in balance and does differ slightly from airplane to airplane. Therefore if the marks on the TC are altered to 18 degrees in theory they should scale well accross airspeeds.

Thanks again.

Darned, where were you when I was looking for beta testers? I'll have the bitmap done this week.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Mathijs, the turn co-ordinator should work at all speeds. But depending on speed the 2 min turn bank angle is different, so you cant catch it with the single setting in the AP bank angle. According information I got, the bank angle in the AP is often set to the top white angle speed as this is speed flown in approach or holds and then matching the 2 min turn and the with that the turn radius is important.

If you are going to match that, could you also rework the pitch indicator? See FXP review.

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Mathijs, the turn co-ordinator should work at all speeds. But depending on speed the 2 min turn bank angle is different, so you cant catch it with the single setting in the AP bank angle. According information I got, the bank angle in the AP is often set to the top white angle speed as this is speed flown in approach or holds and then matching the 2 min turn and the with that the turn radius is important.

If you are going to match that, could you also rework the pitch indicator? See FXP review.

Yep, both updates are planned this week (the were of course planned last week but life...)

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Yep, both updates are planned this week (the were of course planned last week but life...)

Okay we worked on the Attitude Indicator and the Turn Coordinator. We'll keep the fix until we got an mission (to let you get to know the aircraft) done as well. Should be released next week. I still want to see if we can get the visibility of some of the switches a bit more usable.

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May I remind you that Turn Coordination in FS as NEVER been an exact science.

This has been a battle for ages along with other major FS bugs.

Don't botter editing the Air file or the Gauge. It's an FS Flaw that's being criticized since FS2000 and it's not reported fixed in FSX.

I assure you.

I could present you with the boring math are you interested?

Guess not...

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I spent about an hour yesterday flying rate 1 turns in one particular aircraft trying to test a gauge update and while it is still a lot harder to keep a balanced turn in FS than it has been in any real world aircraft I've flown, it does seem a little easier in FSX than it was in FS9.

If you use the rudder now, it actually appears to try and balance the turn, rather than increase the bank angle to ridiculous levels. It might not be right yet, but it is better. ;)

Cheers,

Ian P.

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I spent about an hour yesterday flying rate 1 turns in one particular aircraft trying to test a gauge update and while it is still a lot harder to keep a balanced turn in FS than it has been in any real world aircraft I've flown, it does seem a little easier in FSX than it was in FS9.

If you use the rudder now, it actually appears to try and balance the turn, rather than increase the bank angle to ridiculous levels. It might not be right yet, but it is better. ;)

Cheers,

Ian P.

Got to be honest, while testing I normally fly auto coordinated, but while doing the Super Cub I flew a lot with feet gear and I never really noticed problems. I think the issue is not that the gauges are wrong but that you don't have the 'butt feel'. In a real aircraft you will sense a slip a lot faster than you see it on your instruments (assuming you got the earth in sight).

My father learned me to fly. He had the most sensitive butt known to mankind. I seen him doze off in the Cub we used to fly, only to wake up to tell me to keep my turns stable. Not bad for a guy who flown 104's for a living.

Nice story.

As he was a airforce pilot we used military flight equipment in our Piper Cub flights. Why buy headsets when you got the best gear, right? But the best was mounted inside the helmet and well... it looked a bit weird when two guys climbed out of a 110 hp Piper Cub dressed in full F104 combat gear with helmets, G pants and oxygen tubes hanging left and right. Of course we made it worse by doing a full weapons safe check before lifting the integrated natural sun/artificially sun visors (got to be down in case a nuc goes off under your wing while you check them!) on the helmet. We used to do loads of saluting and shouting "Left side clear!!!"" while the recreational pilots were choking on their apple pie and coffee.

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