WiderWille 0 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I feel like I'm missing something super obvious, but is there really no description of any of the file formats NavData Pro delivers? I'm mostly interested in the AirbusXExtended file format since I got the hang of at least the ATS, Airports and Navaid/Waypoint format already, but I have no clue whatsoever how to interpret anything in the PROC folder. Can anyone help me out? The only thing I found is this http://atr.flight1.net/forums/navdata-file-format-description_topic82.html, but it's incorrect and seems to be ages old. Note: I'll take _ANY_ of the formats supplied even if it means that I have to rewrite my existing parsers, if it means that I can parse all of the data and not just a subset. I just want to parse the files myself so I can put them in an easier to query format (sqlite for that matter) for my own personal use, am I really the only one who has ever wanted to do so? All I can find online is people asking how to update their navdata, not how to interpret the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Boulegue 403 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Sorry, there is no public documentation on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiderWille 0 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Alright, not public then. Is there any chance to sign an NDA and throw some money at it to get non-public information? There must be some documentation accessible somewhere given that third party add-on developers make use of that data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs mopperle 4162 Posted December 30, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted December 30, 2015 No it works only the other way round, if 3rd party developers wants to use the navdata, they come up with the format they need and Aerosoft together with Lufthansa Systems decides if this is possible or not. Reason is simply, that there is no common format for all addons. Data for e.g. a flightplaner differ totally from what e.g. an Airbus or Boeing needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiderWille 0 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 I hear ya, however, JarDesigns A320 and Rotates MD-80 both use the same format, the Airbus X Extended format (the older version I believe, but don't quote me on that). I would think they didn't individually come up with this exact format and Aerosoft was like "You know what, someone before you asked for exactly THAT format. Here you go!". Neither JarDesign nor Rotate came up with that format, so somehow they must have either gotten documentation for it or reverse engineered it, which I suppose I could do as well by simple loading some SIDs and STARs into an FMC and trying to correlate that with the data I have on disk here, but come on, there must be a better way for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs Tom A320 4915 Posted December 30, 2015 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted December 30, 2015 The file format specification is restricted. And I doubt that AS is allowed to open it up to you, as it is intellectual property of Lufthansa Systems. But taking a look into the files and understanding them is really not that hard. In fact it is that easy that I wouldn't even call it reverse engineering at all. Beside an FMC actual charts are also of help. I did the same some time ago to pin point a bug in the AS A318/A319 prior to its initial release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiderWille 0 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 The file format specification is restricted. And I doubt that AS is allowed to open it up to you, as it is intellectual property of Lufthansa Systems. Alright, fair enough. Again, where can I license the documentation then? Which NDA do I have to sign and what bank account do I need to wire how much money to? This just all seems very backwards to me, wouldn't it be in Aerosofts interest to be able to supply documentation for the formats so that it can be used by third party thus getting more users to actually use NavData Pro? I'm just very confused, and I come from the world of software development with lots of very asinine and backwards licensing schemes, but this just seems like such a no-brainer to me. I'm not asking for the data, I already bought it, all I want is a document telling me how the data is formatted. I'm just... I don't know, it seems very perplexing to me that this question doesn't seem to have come up so far? But taking a look into the files and understanding them is really not that hard. In fact it is that easy that I wouldn't even call it reverse engineering at all. Beside an FMC actual charts are also of help. I did the same some time ago to pin point a bug in the AS A318/A319 prior to its initial release. I also got quite far with making sense of the data, although some fields are still a mystery. The thing that really gets me though are the SIDs and Stars, they have a ton of fields and some of them seem to be boolean values, but no idea what exactly they represent. It would just be nice to have a definite reference. And yes, I understand, this is not public information for whatever reason, so, whom do I have to talk to, to get access to that kind of information and what do I have to pay and sign for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted December 31, 2015 Aerosoft Share Posted December 31, 2015 I am sorry we simply do not have the rights to give out that information. We understand you have problems seeing the logic in that but the facts are as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiderWille 0 Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 I am sorry we simply do not have the rights to give out that information. We understand you have problems seeing the logic in that but the facts are as they are. Alright. Let's say for a second I wanted to develop an aircraft, DC-10 or whatever you want. Now I want to make a custom FMC with all the fancy bits and pieces and navdata, but I don't want to be the one who has to supply the navdata because I'm in the business of developing aircrafts and there are others who already have great navdata. One of said others is Aerosoft, they have a product called NavData Pro and it integrates with third party add ons. So, of course I want to integrate their navdata into my DC-10, but, I don't find any documentation for that format. I know that some of my fiercest competitors, JarDesign and Rotate, have added support for Aerosofts navdata format, so there must be a way. Now, let's forget about this forum post and everything said, I'm developing a DC-10, what do I do now to get information about the navdata from Aerosoft? And don't tell me that's impossible. I simply can't believe that every third party developer just reverse engineers what is apparently the intellectual property of Aerosoft and Lufthansa, not to say that both JarDesign and Rotate distribute navdata with their planes (granted, both are very old cycles). If that was the case, where are the cease and desist letters? So basically, what is the difference, what requirements do I need to fulfil to get that access that is obviously given out to some? You can't give it out, I get it, who can? Whom do I need to talk to, and what are their requirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted December 31, 2015 Aerosoft Share Posted December 31, 2015 If you are developing an add-on just send us a mail at support@aerosoft.com and we can talk. However if you just want it for private experiments we'll not assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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