ASK21 aerobatics (aileron roll)

[a320maxi 39]

Hi,

first of all I'd like to say what an incredibly marvelous addon the ASK21 is, I love it. So a big thanks goes to Joachim and his team.  

I still have a question regarding aerobatics, though. I see people doing aileron rolls in the ASK21. However, when I try to do one, after pitching up some 20-30 degrees and rolling the aircraft applying full aileron and some rudder, I end up on my back with my nose already about 10-20 degrees below the horizon and my speed around 100 km/h, which means that I can't complete the roll without having the nose well below the horizon and a speed of already 200 or more km/h- I seem not to have enough roll rate. In addition to that, my heading changes around 45 degrees into the opposite direction of the roll.  I suppose this is a matter of me not carrying out the maneuver correctly, some advice from someone who flies this thing in rw (Joachim?) or flies glider aerobatics would be very appreciated. 

Best regards

[Emi 5161]

Hi,

the aileron is not exactly the strongest on the ASK21, so the roll takes some time.
You must use the elevator to counteract the downforce while the plane is upsidedown.

For the roll, rudder, rudder and again rudder. The 21 is really a plane where you need to master the rudder. It takes a lot of flight students many hours to get this right.
When you keep the turn coordinator centered (watch the string on your canopy!) there won't be any change in your heading.

[a320maxi 39]

Thanks for your advice Emanuel. It's a lot better now when I keep the glider coordinated. I just need to get better at managing the speed, I still exit the roll at more than 200 km/h, since I can't manage keeping the nose above the horizon when I'm on my back. I guess some training is needed...

[Emi 5161]

Yep, in real life it takes flight studends some 50-60 flights to master the plane, so keep training! You won't regret it!

[J.Schweigler 203]

Hi,

 

enter the roll at around 200kph. It is easier than 180 (normal speed) or even 160, some pilots are able to make some kind of a nice looking roll with this speed also.

This is the procedure:

Fly around 200, lift the nose around 20 degrees, maybe more, maybe less, you must decide, you have no gauge to verify, then AILERONS ONLY! DO NOT apply rudder here, this will push the nose down. DO NOT hold the stick pulled, this will create some more adverse yaw and a curved line above ground. Begin to push the stick as much as weeded to fly straight above the ground. Most pushing is needed in inverted flight of course. Try to get or keep the nose above the horizon and keep rolling. In the real thing, this is the most stricky part, because due to the bad angle of your arms with an almost full pushed stick plus the g forces lifting you out of the seat, it is hard to keep full aileron, especially if you have ab bit bigger legs ;-) But you must keep full aileron. Once you are around 3/4 done you will need some rudder to keep the nose from dropping. Use it. Here is the only disadvantage in the flight model we currently have. If you apply rudder and aileron in the same direction, the roll rate increases. The original does not. The rest is VERY close to the real thing. It is no fox or swift, that means practise, practise, practise. BUT: If you can do a good roll in an ASK21, than you'll most certainly be able to roll every other plane :-)

Remember, this is no aerobatic plane. It is a trainer, which is certified for aerobatics. This is a difference ;-)

Bests, Joachim

[a320maxi 39]

4 hours ago, J.Schweigler said:

Hi,

 

enter the roll at around 200kph. It is easier than 180 (normal speed) or even 160, some pilots are able to make some kind of a nice looking roll with this speed also.

This is the procedure:

Fly around 200, lift the nose around 20 degrees, maybe more, maybe less, you must decide, you have no gauge to verify, then AILERONS ONLY! DO NOT apply rudder here, this will push the nose down. DO NOT hold the stick pulled, this will create some more adverse yaw and a curved line above ground. Begin to push the stick as much as weeded to fly straight above the ground. Most pushing is needed in inverted flight of course. Try to get or keep the nose above the horizon and keep rolling. In the real thing, this is the most stricky part, because due to the bad angle of your arms with an almost full pushed stick plus the g forces lifting you out of the seat, it is hard to keep full aileron, especially if you have ab bit bigger legs ;-) But you must keep full aileron. Once you are around 3/4 done you will need some rudder to keep the nose from dropping. Use it. Here is the only disadvantage in the flight model we currently have. If you apply rudder and aileron in the same direction, the roll rate increases. The original does not. The rest is VERY close to the real thing. It is no fox or swift, that means practise, practise, practise. BUT: If you can do a good roll in an ASK21, than you'll most certainly be able to roll every other plane :-)

Remember, this is no aerobatic plane. It is a trainer, which is certified for aerobatics. This is a difference ;-)

Bests, Joachim

Thanks for your comprehensive explanation, Joachim. Yeah, I already found out the ASK21 isn't behaving like a Swift, it's really difficult to master this type of maneuvres in such a "relaxed" glider. Just one little question: After the roll, I suppose, it's normal, that the glider changes its heading a little due to the adverse yaw, right? Or is there any technique to prevent it?

Regards

[J.Schweigler 203]

A good roll looks like flown on "one line". Sure it is not possible vertically in the ASK21 because you must lift the nose pretty high before starting the maneuver, but horizontally there should be no change in any direction. This is possible in the ASK21 btw ;-)

 

Bests, Joachim

[a320maxi 39]

2 hours ago, J.Schweigler said:

A good roll looks like flown on "one line". Sure it is not possible vertically in the ASK21 because you must lift the nose pretty high before starting the maneuver, but horizontally there should be no change in any direction. This is possible in the ASK21 btw ;-)

 

Bests, Joachim

Ok... Hmmm, I guess I'll have to try even harder to eliminate that slight 10° heading change I still got after rolling... Anyway, thanks for all the tips.

 

[J.Schweigler 203]

No problem :-)

 

practise, practise, practise!