No holding pattern on ND

[bpcw001 28]

Hi,

using the new 1.31 A320 CFM.

Example: missed approach EDDF ILS 25C via TAU VOR to MTR VOR. At MTR VOR, program a hold (208 deg inbound, "R" turn, at 5000ft).

The ND (both in PLN and other MAP modes) does not show the hold plotted. There used to be at least a circle at the holding fix that could be made an ellipse by entering a distance for the hold instead of leaving the default 1 min inbound leg time. Now there is nothing holding-related plotted on the ND except a small arrow at the holding fix.

I am not sure if that is a feature (and the hold ellipse only shows up when actually in the missed approach) or a bug. I would be surprised if you could not graphically check the entered hold by looking at a depiction on the ND though.

 

Thanks

[bud 3]

I have same problem and I think this issue has been there since 1.3 release. It use to work in version 1.2x.

After you make entries for hold go back and check you will see Time / Range is something like 999.4. I deleted and re-entered for 1 min, going back to Flight Plan and then re-check hold entries, it got changed again to 999.4 - I think that is where problem is.

[bpcw001 28]

Ok, that makes two of us already.

Any comments from dev? Can you reproduce/confirm the issue or is it just our particular setups acting up?

[bpcw001 28]

So here I dug up something from the Thales manual. It states that the holding pattern is graphically plotted when range scale is below 160nm.
When range scale is larger, the holding pattern display is replaced by an arrow indicating the direction of the turn.

So, the problem with the 1.31 bus is that I exclusively get the turn arrow representation; also and in particular for range scale settings below 160nm.

 

 

 

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[bpcw001 28]

Well, I'd appreciate to get at least a minimal "official" feedback on this.

I'll make it easy. Just tick:

 

Dude you have no idea and got it all wrong. RTFM!  Yes __ No __

 

Otherwise:

 

Can reproduce: Yes __ No __

Looking into it: Yes __ No __

Will fix it: Yes __ No __

Need more info: Yes __ No __ If yes, what should I provide:

 

Thanks

 

[Andyphone 11]

I don't see this problem and it's working fine with 1.31 for me. I can confirm that to see the pattern on the ND the scale must be set below 160 nm but also I believe the distance from the hold has to be not more than 40/50 miles to see it, farther out you will see only the arrow; that must be a limit in the simulation.

Ciao

 

[bpcw001 28]

16 hours ago, Andyphone said:

I don't see this problem and it's working fine with 1.31 for me. I can confirm that to see the pattern on the ND the scale must be set below 160 nm but also I believe the distance from the hold has to be not more than 40/50 miles to see it, farther out you will see only the arrow; that must be a limit in the simulation.

Ciao

 

Thanks for your input. Interesting. What Navdata do you use? Navdata Pro? Navigraph?

Can you see the holding pattern displayed when in PLN mode and stepping through the flight plan? (scale below 160nm of course)?
Is your hold in the missed approach part of the approach procedure or just somewhere enroute?
Do you specifiy a distance for the inbound leg or just leave the default 1min time for the inbound leg?

In my case, even when actually flying the missed approach, a hold defined at a fix that is part of the missed approach is not shown, despite of the fact that the aircraft should be pretty close to it.

Also, I cannot see any hold plotted on the ND when the holding fixes are at IF's or IAF's, even when the aircraft is close enough and range scale is below 160nm.

So ... what's up here?

 

[bpcw001 28]

On 11/8/2015, 3:09:11, bud said:

I have same problem and I think this issue has been there since 1.3 release. It use to work in version 1.2x.

After you make entries for hold go back and check you will see Time / Range is something like 999.4. I deleted and re-entered for 1 min, going back to Flight Plan and then re-check hold entries, it got changed again to 999.4 - I think that is where problem is.

This I haven't experienced on my system. The number 999.4 or the like never shows up. It always stays 1 min. Still the holding ellipsis (or circle or whatever pattern) is not getting displayed.

Strange that this holding stuff appears to behave so differently from installation to installation.

[bud 3]

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 10:54:45, Andyphone said:

I don't see this problem and it's working fine with 1.31 for me. I can confirm that to see the pattern on the ND the scale must be set below 160 nm but also I believe the distance from the hold has to be not more than 40/50 miles to see it, farther out you will see only the arrow; that must be a limit in the simulation.

Ciao

 

 

18 hours ago, bpcw001 said:

This I haven't experienced on my system. The number 999.4 or the like never shows up. It always stays 1 min. Still the holding ellipsis (or circle or whatever pattern) is not getting displayed.

Strange that this holding stuff appears to behave so differently from installation to installation.

Ok, you guys made do this again. Actually I wanted to try this again.

So here is my example, LOWW to LDZA - RWY: 23, STAR: PETO2G Transition: ZAG

1) HOLD gets assigned automatically when selecting VIA ->ZAG

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2) Checking the HOLD, besides incorrect course, Time / Distance is way of, or perhaps as per AIRAC

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3) I can make course and time corrections but time does not stay, when checking again Time / Distance reverted back

But I was able to configure somehow with distance entry, even it the time is way of.

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After that I tried other random waypoint with 1 min time only and it worked.

So it appears that some waypoints work with distance only, eh, I'm not sure but if I can get it working with either / or  - I'm fine with it.

And I noticed that HOLD pattern will show only when very close to the waypoint.

Now the only other thing I can think of, if you're not seeing holding pattern on ND when very close, try switching between PLAN / NAV / ARC modes to see if this refreshes the display to bring it back to life.

Cheers

Michael

 

 

[bpcw001 28]

Hi bud,

 

thanks for your effort in reproducing this again. Like I said, I have not yet seen these strange figures, but I get a little closer to the problem of holdings not displaying in my case:

Apparently, if I am in the air and define a hold at a fix close enough to my present position, I can see the hold displayed on the ND all relevant ND modes with range below 160nm.

What does not work is if I set up a hold while on the ground, e. g. as part of the missed approach procedure or at an IF/IAF at the destination aerodrome. The holding definition will be accepted, but even if I get close and approach the holding in the air, I never get more than a small arrow at that position.

So, I wonder if that is how the real thing is supposed to work, that you can only define holdings when in the air and at a fix close enough to the present aircraft's position if you ever want to expand them from the small arrow to the actual what-you-see-is-what-you-fly pattern on the ND.

For me that smells like a bug/quirk, but maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment on it.

[bpcw001 28]

OK, I did some more reading and found the answer in the Thales manual, section "ND symbols":

Holding patterns

These appear only when they are part of the flight plan. For the 160 and 320 NM range scales, each one is shown by a white arrow that originates at the associated fix and indicates the direction of the turn.

For shorter range scales and if the procedure turn or the holding pattern is in the next or the active leg, the display shows the full circuit or pattern.

Will have to check whether this works as described here. First tests looked promising.

If that proves to work like described in the manual, then hats off to you guys at Aerosoft for providing a by-the-book implementation!