583 replies to this topic

[Mathijs Kok]

November already. What's about to happen this month... (but there are many events this month I got to attend so things are slow.)

• Some of the users that have been helpful here will be send a NDA and they will be invited to be part of the Users Forum. They will get pretty up to date information on the project status.
• The project server will be increased in size to be able to handle the increase discussions between Aerosoft and it's partners.
• My boss will kick my ass to move forwards.
• I will continue to ask for input here.

[VBV041 - Michiel]

This has to be the most useless update so far, but thanks anyway

[Robert Halmich]

As for access to the "users forum" what are you looking at with regards to numbers of people with full access? I would really like to be part of the users group.

Best regards,

Robert Halmich

[Deniz]

Me too Robert


Deniz

[Paul K]

• My boss will kick my ass to move forwards

Any chance of that on Youtube, Mathijs ? It'd keep us all amused till 2012.

[MatthewS]

As for access to the "users forum" what are you looking at with regards to numbers of people with full access? I would really like to be part of the users group.

+1

[CubDriver]

As for access to the "users forum" what are you looking at with regards to numbers of people with full access? I would really like to be part of the users group.

+1

[Alexander Barger]

I really would love to be in that Special Users Group too.

[Emmanuel Kurz]

I would also like to receive a invitation to the NDA but I don't have many posts until today, so it is a bit difficult for the Admins to figure out if I would be helpful in this group ^^.
I hope I can earn it with as many ideas and "input" I can.

Emmanuel

[ludoboss]

I was just thinking about scenery creation. AFS should include a scenery editor such as RoF editor or Sandbox from Crysis where you can directly place building into the sim and directly see the result !
For example, you want to add a control tower on a airport : you select the place by airport ID or coordinates, and you see the default scenery (or the old one). Now, you can modify, delete a building and add your control tower ! I would be great to see that in 3D and in 2D from the top, where we could display a satellite view from google or else ! It should be possible to add into the editor a personal model from gmax or Sketchup (the great model tool from google).

Thank you for given us the opportunity to contribute to the development of AFS2012 !

Edit: i'm now thinking (i think a lot today lol) of prohibited or dangerous flight area and flight area in general... There is quite a lot in the world (i guess, but it's really true in France !). It's really important during flight (and during the flight preparation), but I think it's not really shown in FS ! For instance, when you prepare a VFR flight, you draw line between the departure and arrival airport (and maybe between several others points) and you look for the area you will go through. Sometimes it's totally forbidden and you have to find a solution to go round (in my region, a couple of years ago, it was really tricky to leave my region, because there was a military area that enclose my region between 800 or 500 feet AGL, to 10000 feet or more, so with my small plane i'd to fly really low) ! I said that just in order to show how it's important to prepare the flight and know where you fly and which controller you have to contact. So to make more realistic AFS, it would be great to have the update area definition but I think it's a too big job for your company to update the whole world. So maybe, users could modify flight area with their own official charts (every pilot have charts of their area with coordinates of the aera(for me, France !)), and say if it's a prohibited/dangerous area or if you can pass through after contact the control, and upload that, allowing all people to use this area definition !
And also, about users update, it should be possible to add some VFR mark easily such as windmill or radio tower and to upload on a host server, where every user could download such info (or better, the sim automatically download infos when you fly in this region)

[Pi@no]

I would also like to receive a invitation to the NDA but I don't have many posts until today, so it is a bit difficult for the Admins to figure out if I would be helpful in this group ^^.
I hope I can earn it with as many ideas and "input" I can.

Emmanuel

I think all the users can sign the NDA and access to the "private" forum, no ?

[Emmanuel Kurz]

• Some of the users that have been helpful here will be send a NDA and they will be invited to be part of the Users Forum. They will get pretty up to date information on the project status.

If I understood this correctly, then users are selected by Moderators or Admins.

Emmanuel

[ludoboss]

If I understood this correctly, then users are selected by Moderators or Admins.

Emmanuel

I think so !

[JKR]

Right,

So I registered so that I could put my view forwad .

Anyway what I was thinking was this....
I am a sort of multiplatform person. The kind of person who looks at what has been achieved with simulation games on PS3 or Xbox 360 and gone... I wish I could get Flight Simulator to work and look like some of this but with the Simulator part sorted. Well if you could incorporate little tiny details which make things so much better. Let's start with the wear and tear.

The FIFA series.... when you load the game for the first time all the fields are covered in nice green grass.... as you play the area around the keeper starts to fade and so on. Can this not be incorporated into your FS. I.E we buy the game and the airports are pretty much brand spanking new.... and then as we play more and more rubber marks go down on the runway... the a/c get dirtier the general wear and tear as has been much asked for. But that could also be incorporated in a Career mode thing whereas in the normal Fly Now situation there could just be a default wear and tear level.

Secondly I like the idea of this career mode possibility. BUT I simply do not have the time or the patience to work up from the limitations of a C152. So far the only way around this in some ad-ons is to simply decrease the difficulty BUT that makes it feel like I am cheating. The possibility of chosing your entry point into this career mode if their is to be one. I.E unlicenced learner pilot.... all the way up to ATPL F/o on a jet.

The most important thing to fix is the immersion. Again coming back to PS3 and Xbox 360 "simulators" I will take the example of the new Need For Speed Shift game where you can hear the little rattle of the car as you drive and the vision becomes blurred as the vehicle vibrates more and more which is what happens. When taking-off from an airport I would like to be able to feel the center line because of the bump from the reflecting lights. A hard landing would lead to a shudder and blurred vision.

Weather. Now here I have a more limited range of examples which have already been done BUT when you fly the rain on the windshield does not sound or act the same when your on the ground and compared to in the air at 250 kts. Nor does a rain sodden runway act the same as a bone dry runway. Here however I can draw an example of something which has been done. In sony F1 Championship edition you CANNOT drive the same way on a wet track as you can on a dry track or even a moist track. Again this leads back to a PLEASE do this in FS thing where the way an aircraft lands is affected by the runway contaminents.

Then of course there is the birdstrike.... emergencies..... blow outs.... fires...... physics....and lighting but yes this also needs to be looked at and I am sure it isn't too hard to do. As well as the correct flight physics and of course ARMS and LEGS and A BODY.

I also like the idea of the "snooze button" where the computer, aka First officer, can completely take over those long haul flights while you go out and do something else. And incase you completely forget about it or sleep through your alarm it should be able to get itself to the gate and complete the flight.

So there we go just my ideas. Now most these have all already been done it is just a question of combining them into your flight simulator and in essence creating the BEST simulator EVER. The thing is the technology to do all these things is out there because these have all been done on other games.

I hope I was some help.

James

[Albrecht]

The icing on the cake?

I'm talking about freeware.

What would a Flightsimulator be, without freeware?

A lot of people want to do something for the community (and for themselves).
It's a want, it takes pleasure in this hobby, to be proud of something,
creating something, giving something to the community...

And all professional Addon producer need them? Why?
I guess, all of addon developer have started this way!

And freeware makes a flightsimulator interesting.
Topics in web forums, reviews in magazines,
and we user get stuff, which isn't lucrative for payware developer.

FSX has changed the situation, because FSX made freeware difficult.
There is an increasing visual demand and less sceneries, less aircrafts.

But there is still a lot, paintings, tools, missions, screenshots, videos...

What could be the future of freeware?
What would be essential?

Could it be a kind of toolkit with a lot of prefabricated buildings, open content.
I would place all buildings in my street on the right place.
This could be stored on a platform, anybody could download this.
And more parts of the world will look authentic.

Would be interesting to here other ideas and wishes.

Albrecht

[Albrecht]

Edit: i'm now thinking (i think a lot today lol) of prohibited or dangerous flight area and flight area in general...

Would be a nice gimmick to meet some artificial military aircrafts (rocking wings and flashing
navigational lights). This would be the first time, when I take care of restricted airspace ;-).

Albrecht

[ludoboss]

Would be a nice gimmick to meet some artificial military aircrafts (rocking wings and flashing
navigational lights). This would be the first time, when I take care of restricted airspace ;-).

Albrecht

I thought the same, but it's, in a way, just for fun, but it would be great.
I would be funny if the control tell you that you are in a prohibited area and that you have to leave or to land, and if you don't leave, 2 fighters come and shoot you or guide you

[Colin Caughie]

The most important thing to fix is the immersion. Again coming back to PS3 and Xbox 360 "simulators" I will take the example of the new Need For Speed Shift game where you can hear the little rattle of the car as you drive and the vision becomes blurred as the vehicle vibrates more and more which is what happens. When taking-off from an airport I would like to be able to feel the center line because of the bump from the reflecting lights. A hard landing would lead to a shudder and blurred vision.

That would be great. This is an interesting post; a lot of people scoff at folk who want "game-like" features in a flight simulator, but as you point out there are many games that do a better job of simulating, at least in some respects, than the state of the art (consumer) flight simulators currently available.

This and the other examples you mention would give a much better sense of being in the plane.

Colin

[BPL]

The most important thing to fix is the immersion. Again coming back to PS3 and Xbox 360 "simulators" I will take the example of the new Need For Speed Shift game where you can hear the little rattle of the car as you drive and the vision becomes blurred as the vehicle vibrates more and more which is what happens. When taking-off from an airport I would like to be able to feel the center line because of the bump from the reflecting lights. A hard landing would lead to a shudder and blurred vision.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I believe immersion to be one of the most important things in a flight sim. The only reason I use flight sims is that I don't have the time or money at this stage of my life (a 16 year-old high school student) to take real life flying lessons. Therefore, I want to feel as if I'm really there. No matter how realistic the flight model is, or how good the graphics are; if the little details that create immersion aren't sufficiently developed, you're not going to feel as if you're really there. The things in any simulator or game that stand out to me the most are the details that make you think, "Wow! I can't believe they thought of that! That's amazing that it does that!" I don't think any flight sim I have tried has had sufficient immersion. Immersion seems to be ignored in the development of flight sims in favor of concentration other things. It shouldn't be. Immersion is what gives the "Wow Factor." I think this is the most important thing for AFS2012 to improve upon from other flight sims.

[JKR]

We need to remember that any Flight Simulator isn't the real thing it should do what it says on the box which is to simulate flight. Sounds kind of obvious but I feel that in recent years Microsoft has been developping something which thinks its the real thing and tries too hard to convince you its real and in doing so you feel dissapointed (check spelling ) because it's not the real thing.

However what would be nice is something which knows it's not the real thing but it gives you the best offer and because you also know it's not the real thing you feel impressed by what has been done with it. Let me take an example from the BBC Top Gear series. They tested a car which was a Japanese version of the Rolls Royce. Now Top Gear said exactly the same thing. The car makers knew it wasn't a Rolls and the driver knew it wasn't a Rolls so when it did something which was almost like a Rolls it was wonderful and you were impressed.

I hope this makes sense

[StORM48]

 

Some of the users that have been helpful here will be send a NDA and they will be invited to be part of the Users Forum.

Does this mean that only you'll be inviting them?


What was the purpose of so call "voting" about the NDA thing, if I voted "YES" and nobody really wants to invite me there, although I want to sign the NDA?

Really weird politics...   

Best regards,

Dragan

[JKR]

That would be great. This is an interesting post; a lot of people scoff at folk who want "game-like" features in a flight simulator, but as you point out there are many games that do a better job of simulating, at least in some respects, than the state of the art (consumer) flight simulators currently available.

This and the other examples you mention would give a much better sense of being in the plane.

Colin

Thanks Colin. I just hope that Aerosoft can pick up on this and make it a much better piece of software and something completely different to what has been done. In FSX if I put thrust reversers on the only way I know they are on is that the speed needle decreases fast and the sound changes. But in real there is that whole thrown forwards and incredible rattling. So that would need looking at.

I appreciate the fact that Aerosoft are going out to the consumers to get the best possible feedback. I think what should happen is later on during the development stage there should be a poll as to what are the MUST have little extras on the simulator like have a list of things like career mode and blurred vision for immersion and stuff like that and the top 2 or 3 or the most popular ones or however aerosoft want to work at it become a feature of the simulator.

James

[Emmanuel Kurz]

I also would recommend to work on details because they are important for the look & feel as a pilot.

Additional ideas:

• Rainshowers should also appear in smaller areas. Whats in my mind is, in MSFS you fly through a whole area where it rains but in real life they occur also just under clouds or where precipitation is possible and in different intensity.
  Look at this one here, to see what I mean.
  http://www.youtube.c...h?v=SacFRH_H6gg (1m 54s)
• Moving grass or trees near the runway? Likely not possible because of the amount of vertices which have to be animated.
• It should be possible to activate effects by gauges and not just per "smoke on/off". => will be applicable for wing vortex, rain wash
• Use of different cloud textures depending on the cloud than just a single set for the all clouds.
• Color temperature should be configurable for runways not just one texture for every airport.

Emmanuel

[jeanco46]

I have not yet read this on the forum (maybe I overlooked it), but a good deal of real immersion is gained if you take the trouble (and money ) to buy a good surround set and a TripleHeadtoGo. The first thing is obvious: the sound really puts you right onto the flight deck; as far as the second is concerned, taxiing really becomes a lot more realistic with three monitors and a screen resolution of 3840x1024: I sometimes give demonstrations elsewhere on a 4:3 screen and for me it's virtually impossible to fly in that mode!

[Patrick O.]

Took the words right out of my mouth guys.

Immersion (a.k.a. WOW factor) is definitely the missing key with all the flight simulators right now.

@JKR: While I agree with the RR analogy to an extent, I still would like the feeling of being there. Cockpit rattling on landing, more realistic inertial head movement, etc.

@BPL: I'm 17 and in the same boat.

[JKR]

Took the words right out of my mouth guys.

Immersion (a.k.a. WOW factor) is definitely the missing key with all the flight simulators right now.

@JKR: While I agree with the RR analogy to an extent, I still would like the feeling of being there. Cockpit rattling on landing, more realistic inertial head movement, etc.

@BPL: I'm 17 and in the same boat.

I agree with you it was just a way of putting things to try and explain it all... I don't know if you read my post on page 1?

[Patrick O.]

I agree with you it was just a way of putting things to try and explain it all... I don't know if you read my post on page 1?

??? ... Ooohhh, I'm sorry, I misinterpreted. So you're saying something like, if AFS2012 is presented as a product that is not attempting to "be real" and we expect that, then we'll be pleasantly surprised (or blown away, maybe) when we actually experience it? If so, then I could definitely agree.

[BPL]

@BPL: I'm 17 and in the same boat.

Yeah, it's too bad we're in the same boat and not the same plane!

One thing that I think would really add to immersion is the ability to conduct a realistic pre-flight. I'd like to be able to do the external checks like checking the fuel for contaminants. Why not be able to walk around the plane and conduct your pre-flight and then walk up to the door, open it, get in, close the door, start the engine, put on your headset (which would muffle the sounds), etc? Some people may think this is too "game-like," but why not? It would add to realism and immersion. If we're trying to make it realistic, then why eliminate something that pilots have to do in real life?

[JKR]

??? ... Ooohhh, I'm sorry, I misinterpreted. So you're saying something like, if AFS2012 is presented as a product that is not attempting to "be real" and we expect that, then we'll be pleasantly surprised (or blown away, maybe) when we actually experience it? If so, then I could definitely agree.

That is exactly what I was trying to say

[Waleed]

I do not know if this was mentioned, but I saw a preview (forgot where ) of a programme that adds motion to the cockpit.
Take-off roll, landing, and more. I cannot explain this too well, as it was a while back, but in the preview, the cockpit "shook?" while doing the take-off roll. It should not be too severe though (sea sickness.)
It sounds promising, and I thought I would mention it for consideration.

Sorry, but it was one of those moments where I did not even get the product name.

[Emmanuel Kurz]

You mean ActiveCamera? This software is able to add (virtual) motion to the virtual cockpit.

Emmanuel

[nolanh]

Add my vote for immersion elements - subtle turbulence effects, accurate rain sounds, subtle dynamics in lighting, sound, etc. plus the not so subtle, of course. At least allow these to be presented via add-ons. I guess this means allowing any data from the flight model, environment model to be registered for and received via the API.

[Waleed]

You mean ActiveCamera? This software is able to add (virtual) motion to the virtual cockpit.

Emmanuel

I am guessing that is it. Thanks Emmanuel. I am getting old.

[Sam-KPNS]

Mathijs:

It seems like a good move on Aerosoft's part would be to have at least 2 or more versions of the new Sim. Each priced by the number of features and detail included. I think you may have mentioned a Professional version but it was not clear if that level would be for the advanced home user or more for the use of Flight schools or similar applications. In reading through all the requests and desires, I find many examples of a plea for the new sim to work on a two year old Laptop followed by a request for something advanced like more real world ATC or weather functions. If you have the time to maybe expand on the possibilities of multi-level sims, it would be a great help.

Thanks

Sam

[ludoboss]

Hey !

Just a word about slope runway (or runway slope, im not sure ?!)... I think airport, runway, and taxiway should be stick on the mesh upon which it's placed (hope u will be able to unterstand this sentence lol) ! It's really annoying to have a cliff at the end of the runway.

Thx !

[Arista]

X-Plane's runways follow the terrain slope by default, which is great on the one hand, but makes some airports completely unusable due to defects in the terrain mesh (i.e. SRTM artifacts). So this problem needs to be considered. One option is to give content creators an easy to use tool set to modify the terrain mesh on a small scale. Another option might be to support different elevations for different points on runways, taxiways and other movement areas in the airport database, and adjust the mesh accordingly at runtime (or load time). Threshold elevations, one or more mid-point elevations for the trickier runways, ARP elevation, etc. are usually easily accessible from charts, and if you have access to the airport, you could even drive/taxi around with your GPS logger and record elevations for arbitrary points.

Judith

[Kenneth]

There is some things that I want in AFS 2012.

One is that AFS supports future addons like FSPassengersX. http://www.fspassengers.com/

If Aerosoft implements this in AFS, or if they'd like to make their own addon in the future, or they let that be a job for others, i don't care. But realy, I need an application like this, or a lot better. I've flown sims for over 15 years now, and i find it boring just to fly without a goal. I like the company and cariere mode in the FSPassengersX, it's a must have , and I think a lot of people will agree with that. Someone say that it does not have anything with a simulator to do, but they are wrong. Passengers, carriere and companymode is as important for sivilian flightsims, as being able to use the payload in a combat flightsim.

Crash/damage modelling is wanted. I want to see what happens when I do take wrong descisions. Look at the BlackShark simulator. I'd like to have a crash/damage model that goes from a simple scratch to a totaly destroyd airplane.

AI aircraft, and AI ATC is needed.

realism realism realism

I've had some people watching me fly FSX from the age of 10 to 60 years old. What do you think everyone wanted to see? well they all wanted to see a crash. They wanted to see what happends when we do this and that. I did show them what will happend when I push the nose down in a steep dive to mother earth, going straight in to the ground, and everyone said...... booooriiiiing! Stopping the sim with the writings of ***Crash**** is not realistic, and it is boring! And in FSX, it's nothing in between, you just CRASH. Will I live to tell the tale? We will newer know in FSX. Therefore we need to have crash damage modelling. It's time to put the 9/11 on the shelf.

Some people say that I am inhuman, well, I am not. It's not that I wan't to crash, it's just that I wan't more realism. I use the FSPassengersX, and the last thing I wan't is a crash. As a pilot I wan't to fly from A-B, safe. But the day I am not so lucky, I want to se the drama and action that we all think about flights. Why do you all think a lot of people is afraid of flying? well they are afraid of crashing. This is one of the most important tings about flight, the thrill, the exitement, and the risk!

Flying is fun, nice, gorgeouse, exiting, thrilling, magic, and it is risky! You do not have a real sim without the real complications and the real results of doing wrong tings in the cocpitt.

Nice crach damage models is important, and I guarantee you that you will sell more .

[Kenneth]

It seems like a good move on Aerosoft's part would be to have at least 2 or more versions of the new Sim. Each priced by the number of features and detail included. I think you may have mentioned a Professional version but it was not clear if that level would be for the advanced home user or more for the use of Flight schools or similar applications.

It's not for you and me, you will not have enough monney to buy hardware for the pro version. It's not like the MSFS9 smal and pro versjon this time. This time Pro is realy for the Professional, like the flyeing schools and companys. For home ovners they have to tweek it to fitt in to a single PC. For the pro, the buyers don't care, they pay for the hardware they need... a "super" computer...

This has been mentioned before by Mathijs.... not the same words, but still.....

[BPL]

Mathijs:

It seems like a good move on Aerosoft's part would be to have at least 2 or more versions of the new Sim. Each priced by the number of features and detail included. I think you may have mentioned a Professional version but it was not clear if that level would be for the advanced home user or more for the use of Flight schools or similar applications. In reading through all the requests and desires, I find many examples of a plea for the new sim to work on a two year old Laptop followed by a request for something advanced like more real world ATC or weather functions. If you have the time to maybe expand on the possibilities of multi-level sims, it would be a great help.

Thanks

Sam

It's my understanding that the Professional version will be for flight schools and the like. Not for home use.

Hey !

Just a word about slope runway (or runway slope, im not sure ?!)... I think airport, runway, and taxiway should be stick on the mesh upon which it's placed (hope u will be able to unterstand this sentence lol) ! It's really annoying to have a cliff at the end of the runway.

Thx !

Very early on in this project I remember Mathijs saying that AFS2012 will include sloped runways. Which will be great!

[HugoAB345]

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