Airway issue?

[JamesT 0]

Hi

This is probably something I am doing incorrecty but here goes..

I am trying to enter the flight plan generated by PPFX

DTY UL10 DVR UL9 KONAN UL607 KOK UM150 PITES UZ380 MUN UZ738 UNKEN UL603 RUGAS UN128 LMO UN127 EXELA UM601 DAROS

into the FMC manually and I am having an issue entering it - specifically with the DTY UL10 DVR part.

Entering DTY, selecting airways, entering UL10 (all ok) but then when I enter DVR as the airway exit it says 'Not allowed'.

It looks like a valid airway in PPFX and I am using the latest Navigraph 1408 on both PPFX and the Airbus Extended.

If I export the route from PPFX and then load it as a company route in the FMC it all looks fine.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks

James

[mopperle 4162]

Can you please post a screenshot where you get the error? What is your DEP and ARR Airport so that I can try to recreate it?

[KyleD 1027]

Hi James,

In addition to what Otto requested, out of curiosity have you tried loading the airway as "UL10"? Looking at the chart either should be valid.

[JamesT 0]

Hi - thanks for the responses.

The full route is EGBB DTY UL10 DVR UL9 KONAN UL607 KOK UM150 PITES UZ380 MUN UZ738 UNKEN UL603 RUGAS UN128 LMO UN127 EXELA UM601 DAROS LCLK

Screenshots attached. I should also note that the other airways enter correctly from that plan.

I have tried entering the airway in different ways but no difference.

[Jonas Kuster 1]

And you pushed LSK1R for sure? You didn't try to fill DVR into LSK2L?

[JamesT 0]

Hi

Yeah - for sure. I tried several times and made sure it was the right button. As I said other airways on that route entered without issue.

Thanks

[mopperle 4162]

I will do a test today evening. In FSC your routestring gives me a very strange routing. Can only test with NavdataPro.

[ubersu 23]

Make sure that the direction you are going is legitimate for that airway. NavdataPro provides directional airways and if you are going what the data considers the wrong way, the Airbus won't allow the entry...

DJ

[Jonas Kuster 1]

DTY UL10 DVR isn't accepted on my Airbus, either. The airway information of UL10 also looks a bit different from the one of L10, but I'm not familiar with the exact format and it's meaning.

Therefore, I checked with official Ennoute Charts from NATS. And there, it's written for the part between BPK and LAM (which is a part of DTY-DVR): Not avbl for eastbound flights btn BPK and LAM. This confirms what DJ supposed could be the problem. You find this information in the Enroute part of the UK AIP, document ENR 3.2 Upper ATS Routes: http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=4&Itemid=11.html. Have a look at page 5, third row from the bottom.

Direct link to PAMS light from EUROCONTROL: http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/pamslight/pdf/4e415453/EG/C/EN/AIP/ENR/EG_ENR_3_2_en.

Finally, your initial question can be answered with: no, there is no issue. You aren't allowed to use a part of this airway in the direction you wish. You should even replace your routing between DTY and DVR according to ECAC airspace route restrictions (EG2513 a), check with the CFMU route validator via EuroFPL.

Direct link: http://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/RAD/1408/docs/E1_RAD_3_RADAN_EG_en.pdf, page 4, second row from the bottom.

[Juergen_DL3FY 49]

hi James,

.... but then when I enter DVR as the airway

.... DVR is not a Airway !-

- check the waypoints DTY and HON too

- WP's MUN and UNKEN are DIRECT'S .... do you need it so ?

- the rest of your F-Plan is OK

- Dep- and Arr-Airport are ?

regards Jürgen

[Jonas Kuster 1]

- WP's MUN and UNKEN are DIRECT'S .... do you need it so ?

Even if that is not the original question of the topic, could you explain what you mean by that?

[Juergen_DL3FY 49]

hi Jonas,

Yeah sure .... between these waypoints No Airways were given and therefore these are direct connections.

Is that so also intentional?

regards Juergen

[JamesT 0]

Hi Jonas

Thanks - that answers my question.

[Jonas Kuster 1]

Yeah sure .... between these waypoints No Airways were given and therefore these are direct connections.

Is that so also intentional?

I'm not sure if I do understand you correctly. You mean MUN and UNKEN are just neighbour waypoints? But the published connection between them is airway UZ738. Sure you can use DCT between them, but it's always nicer to use an airway as connection, even if it's just for one waypoint. That should also respect directional restrictions, if there are any. And controllers can see you that you are on a normal airway and not just doing a "real" direct between 2 waypoints.