WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Edited to fix a broken link. Just wanted to let you know I finally managed to solve my OOM issues and this by doing the following: switching from DX9 -> DX10 using SteveFX DX10 Scenery Fixer Tool following this -> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52676345/DX10_Fix/Notes/DX10%20Notes.pdf guide to setup FSX including fsx.cfg and Nvidia Inspector for DX10 After doing this I'm now able to use the full product without any LITE modes and with all bells & whistles like 3D grass and lights enabled plus all my addons like the NGX, FS Global Ultimate, UTX, FTXG, ASN etc. When I was still running DX9 I used to have approx 200 MB VAS left and thus being on the edge to an OOM error only by sitting in a cold and dark NGX @ LGTS panning around in different views, see post #82 here -> http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/78173-thessaloniki-x-city-configurator-v30-if-you-have-oom-issues/page-3 Now in DX10 when I do the exact same test at the exact same location with the exact same addons installed I have approx 1.2 GB VAS left...that is 1 GB more compared to when running DX9!! On top of this my FPS increased from 30-35 -> 55-60 with all FSX sliders in the same positions all the way to the right except for water at Low 2.x and Autogen @ Normal. Looking at the image quality it's equal to DX9 and my fear that lots of stuff wouldn't show up correctly in DX10 like Aerosoft AES and IVAO MTL objects being all white which was the case when I last tried DX10 proved to no longer be true. All these object now show up perfectly fine in correct colors and textures after using the tool mentioned above. So...a very happy ending and I'm actually grateful I had all these OOM issues initially @ LGTS because otherwise I wouldn't have been running DX10 now with the incredible boost in both VAS management and performance. Here's a screenshot showing the situation I've been using for my testing, sitting at gate 13 in the virtual cockpit in a cold and dark NGX. Check out the available VAS in the FSX title bar and the FPS counter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badfinger 62 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Great post Richard. I have been using DX10 for several months now and will never go back to DX9. However, trying to convince some users on the Aerosoft forum (s) and developers that DX10 is now becoming the the number one choice amongst FSX users has fallen on deaf ears. All you hear is Dx10 is not supported. Yeah right!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yeah, I heard that too and although a part of me can understand Aerosoft's view on supporting a mode of FSX which never was finished officially I think it's a shame considering how today's DX10 with the tool mentioned would let many of Aerosoft's customers use and enjoy Aerosoft products they can't enjoy the same way in DX9 me being a good example. Also with this tool fixing most of the former issues in my eyes the investment by Aerosoft fixing the few issues that still may exist with some products would be minor compared to the benefits of having lots of more customers who could enjoy their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Good to see you got it working, Richard! As far as your OOMs with DX9 were concerned, it looks to me as if your departure scenery didn't unload from your VAS. So, strictly speaking, switching to DX10 is a workaround for your somehow flawed departure scenery design. I have great results, VAS-wise, when flying out of Thessaloniki (or flying out of FlyTampa airports, for example) in DX9. Anyhoo, DX10 has its benefits and it may still make sense to go DX10 even for someone who doesn't suffer from OOMs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs Jeroen Doorman 1763 Posted February 4, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 4, 2014 Great post Richard. I have been using DX10 for several months now and will never go back to DX9. However, trying to convince some users on the Aerosoft forum (s) and developers that DX10 is now becoming the the number one choice amongst FSX users has fallen on deaf ears. All you hear is Dx10 is not supported. Yeah right!!! The reasson why DX10 is not supported is mostly because microsoft never finished it as it's a preview. Next to that, the dx10 fixer doesn't always fix everything so eventhough it's a great add on it's not the complete fix to support all the scenery/add ons. That's just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badfinger 62 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I have most Aerosoft addon airports and they all work with the DX10 fixer. The only one that has an issue is Heraklion X if you have 3D grass enabled. I don't mean to be rude to you, but it is that sort of mis information that confuses users. Every addon airport I own works. I have a lot from all known developers. Every update Steve releases makes it even better. Other well known devs like Fly Tampa have jumped on the Dx10 bandwagon with updates. BTW, when I talk DX10, I don't refer to Dx10 preview, I know it does not work out of the box. The statement that Dx10 preview is not supported is rather mute. Every discussion on the subject is met with "The reason why DX10 is not supported is mostly because microsoft never finished it as it's a preview." Forget that, as Steve finished it More addons work in DX10 than in P3D V2, and Aerosoft support that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Good to see you got it working, Richard! As far as your OOMs with DX9 were concerned, it looks to me as if your departure scenery didn't unload from your VAS. So, strictly speaking, switching to DX10 is a workaround for your somehow flawed departure scenery design. I have great results, VAS-wise, when flying out of Thessaloniki (or flying out of FlyTampa airports, for example) in DX9. Anyhoo, DX10 has its benefits and it may still make sense to go DX10 even for someone who doesn't suffer from OOMs! Thanks Oliver and I guess you very well may be correct in it's the departure scenery not releasing it's VAS footprint. I do most of my flights out of ESSA since it's my home airport and considering this scenery (Aerosoft Mega Airport Stockholm Arlanda) was released many years ago making it in desperate need of an update or even better brand new scenery ( ;) Mathijs) that makes it even more likely. Anyhow I'm more than pleased to see the benefits from now running FSX in DX10 mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal Haczek 1612 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 this scenery (Aerosoft Mega Airport Stockholm Arlanda) was released many years ago Yes, more than five years now. But from my experience I must tell you it is, maybe due to the lack of high-end details that many current sceneries offer (together with headaches sometimes), one of the best performing airports I own (and I do own a lot). Aside from Drzewiecki Design airports (EPKK, EPKT, EPGD) it is the only aerodrome in my collection where I can lock FPS to 30 in AXE or NGX and not see it going below this limit. Also VAS doesn't rise a lot. So, yes, an older and not extremely detailed scenery. But on the other hand a very well performing and safe airport that allows dropping in all the other VAS-eaters you can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 The reasson why DX10 is not supported is mostly because microsoft never finished it as it's a preview. Next to that, the dx10 fixer doesn't always fix everything so eventhough it's a great add on it's not the complete fix to support all the scenery/add ons. That's just my 2 cents Yeah, just like Julian points out and so did I in my initial post I fully understand why Aerosoft would not choose to support the DX10 Preview mode the way it is out of the box but now with the SteveFX Scenery Fixer tool available the story is totally different with most of the former DX10 Preview issues sorted and only a few ones remaining and a DX10 user base that has grown considerably since Steve (the developer of the tool) decided to start looking into a way fixing DX10 in FSX and succeeded doing so to a very high degree. So if Aerosoft (and any other addon developers) would decide to support this new "breed" of FSX I'm certain it wouldn't benefit only the customers but also the developers. I think more and more people will jump to DX10 when they realize just how good DX10 now is working using Steve's tool and all the benefits that come from running DX10 like how today's hardware and especially today's video cards are much better utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs Jeroen Doorman 1763 Posted February 4, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yeah, just like Julian points out and so did I in my initial post I fully understand why Aerosoft would not choose to support the DX10 Preview mode the way it is out of the box but now with the SteveFX Scenery Fixer tool available the story is totally different with most of the former DX10 Preview issues sorted and only a few ones remaining and a DX10 user base that has grown considerably since Steve (the developer of the tool) decided to start looking into a way fixing DX10 in FSX and succeeded doing so to a very high degree. So if Aerosoft (and any other addon developers) would decide to support this new "breed" of FSX I'm certain it wouldn't benefit only the customers but also the developers. I think more and more people will jump to DX10 when they realize just how good DX10 now is working using Steve's tool and all the benefits that come from running DX10 like how today's hardware and especially today's video cards are much better utilized. Well then I must take a look at it again and maybe buy it to see if I can agree on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yes, more than five years now. But from my experience I must tell you it is, maybe due to the lack of high-end details that many current sceneries offer (together with headaches sometimes), one of the best performing airports I own (and I do own a lot). Aside from Drzewiecki Design airports (EPKK, EPKT, EPGD) it is the only aerodrome in my collection where I can lock FPS to 30 in AXE or NGX and not see it going below this limit. Also VAS doesn't rise a lot. So, yes, an older and not extremely detailed scenery. But on the other hand a very well performing and safe airport that allows dropping in all the other VAS-eaters you can think of. I have to agree with you it does both look and perform very well considering it's age. However looking at VAS even if it won't make a huge footprint I wonder how much of the VAS used it will return when you leave the area? As you may have read in the post made by Oliver only a couple of posts above made by Oliver he suggested not returning used VAS might have been part of the issues I had with LGTS when flying out of ESSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Re-reading Richard's post here (http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/78173-thessaloniki-x-city-configurator-v30-if-you-have-oom-issues/?p=559975), it could actually be due to the scenery "in between", and not ESSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Re-reading Richard's post here (http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/78173-thessaloniki-x-city-configurator-v30-if-you-have-oom-issues/?p=559975), it could actually be due to the scenery "in between", and not ESSA? Not sure though what that scenery would be because I have no VAS consuming photo scenery along the route ESSA-LGTS and if my memory recalls I also did a flight with all my other addon scenery disabled but ESSA and LGTS and still I had the OOM issues arriving at LGTS. My guess is it was more a combination of a long flight (+3 hours) and using other global and maybe VAS-consuming addons that caused my issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Photoscenery will always be loaded into your VAS, no matter what your route is. Sorry for derailing your thread, back to the benefits of DX10 now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted February 4, 2014 Aerosoft Share Posted February 4, 2014 The reasson why DX10 is not supported is mostly because microsoft never finished it as it's a preview. Next to that, the dx10 fixer doesn't always fix everything so eventhough it's a great add on it's not the complete fix to support all the scenery/add ons. That's just my 2 cents And they always refused to support it in any way. It's not in the SDK, questions about it were never answered. Over beers MS devs have told me a few times it was a huge mistake to include it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Well then I must take a look at it again and maybe buy it to see if I can agree on this Yes, you should definitely do that! I think you'll be as positively surprised as I was Just make sure to follow the great advice found in this forum -> http://forum.avsim.net/forum/569-dx-10-discussions-hints-and-help/ and in particular in the guide I linked in my first post which in a very good way learn how to setup FSX and Nvidia Inspector to give you a great result both looking at the visuals and FPS. To me, this forum clearly shows the growing interest in DX10 in the FS community. Another forum of interest might be the official DX10 Scenery Fixer tool forum found here -> http://forum.avsim.net/forum/644-the-official-dx10-scenery-fixer-support-forum/ From what I've seen so far Steve really is on his toes always trying to further improve the tool. Other great reading discussing the differences between DX9 vs DX10 is found here -> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7sxevg36m00fv0k/BeCLMniGXe/Vertex%20%26%20Index%20Buffers.pdf and I found it particulary interesting how the rendering in DX10 is all handled by the GPU vs in DX9 where the rendering is shared by the CPU and GPU. This was one of the major reasons I decided to give DX10 a second chance and I'm so glad I did! Here's the post where it all started for me -> http://forum.avsim.net/topic/433879-thinking-of-doing-a-second-attempt-switching-from-dx9-dx10/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Photoscenery will always be loaded into your VAS, no matter what your route is. Sorry for derailing your thread, back to the benefits of DX10 now! Yes I know but I don't have any pure photo scenery addons installed. Never mind, all is good now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 And they always refused to support it in any way. It's not in the SDK, questions about it were never answered. Over beers MS devs have told me a few times it was a huge mistake to include it. I hear you and I fully understand your view on all this but things have really changed with the tool discussed in this thread and what was true about DX10 in the past is in no way longer true. Even Aerosoft AES known to be not compatible with DX10 (which has been a major show-stopper for me using AES with all my airports and with Oliver saying no DX10 support is to be expected) to my big joy now works perfectly fine in DX10 mode using the latest version of the DX10 Scenery Fixer Tool With this tool DX10 now instead offers what I would like to call a new version of FSX and the way I see it (and I might very well end up in this group myself) I think DX10 for many people will be an alternative to P3Dv2. Clearly it's your own choice but you really owe it to yourself Mathijs having a second look what today's DX10 in FSX is like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs Jeroen Doorman 1763 Posted February 4, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 4, 2014 With this tool DX10 now instead offers what I would like to call a new version of FSX and the way I see it (and I might very well end up in this group myself) I think DX10 for many people will be an alternative to P3Dv2. I can't see this being an alternative for P3Dv2 as that contains (partly) different coding and runs on DX11 and has some interesting features like volumetric fog and a couple of other things ... but again ... that's just my view and opinion. I don't have numbers to go with that opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs Jeroen Doorman 1763 Posted February 4, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 4, 2014 And they always refused to support it in any way. It's not in the SDK, questions about it were never answered. Over beers MS devs have told me a few times it was a huge mistake to include it. Beer and developers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I can't see this being an alternative for P3Dv2 as that contains (partly) different coding and runs on DX11 and has some interesting features like volumetric fog and a couple of other things ... but again ... that's just my view and opinion. I don't have numbers to go with that opinion P3Dv2 could become pretty expensive, considering that a number of addon developers raise their (FSX) prices for P3Dv2 titles (Aerosoft doesn't seem to become one of those, though). So, IMO, yes: DX10 (incl. a fixer) for FSX could be an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs Jeroen Doorman 1763 Posted February 4, 2014 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted February 4, 2014 P3Dv2 could become pretty expensive, considering that a number of addon developers raise their (FSX) prices for P3Dv2 titles (Aerosoft doesn't seem to become one of those, though). So, IMO, yes: DX10 (incl. a fixer) for FSX could be an alternative. It might be for some it might not be for others. I just wanna install the software and start using it without having to download a patch in order to make things complete and than run a tool to get it working correct in DX10 My personal solution is ... DX9 with 4096 max load and an overclocked processor I will however have another look at it with my throttle in idle to see if I see any benefits out of DX10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 None of us know for sure what the future holds and maybe a better wording from me would have been I think DX10 for many people will could be an alternative to P3Dv2 For now I'm more than pleased with DX10 and in my eyes it already transformed FSX into a new sim for me and I especially like the fact how I will now be able to better utilize my hardware and get something back for the $ I invested in my FSX rig. However I also bought P3Dv2 when it was first released and just like everyone else I'm looking forward to the upcoming patch since the current RTM version didn't even come close to meet my expectations to be honest with lots of pure bugs. Looking in the crystal ball I think in the near future (1-3 years) the majority will stay with FSX and many of them will be switching to DX10 to in some way "renew" their simulator to better utilize their hardware and so on but still being able to keep all their addons etc and avoid a total reinstallation of their simulator environment. In the longer run I think P3Dv2 (or more likely v3 or v4 or v5 and probably/hopefully in 64-bit) will be the dominating platform for simulating flight in front of your computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Chief Pilot 829 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 In the longer run, X-Plane could also be improved visually and enriched by today's FSX/P3D addon developers (like PMDG). So, even more alternatives to pick from. We flightsimmers could be a happy bunch of people. (If it wasn't for the nerve-wracking tinkering all the time!!! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WebMaximus 320 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 True. Not to mention all time spent in various forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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