Joining a STAR beyond first point

[mjansen 7]

Hi everyone,

Approaching KMIA (Miami) from the southeast, I've selected the FLIPR2 RNAV arrival. This is the route (TNCM-KMIA):

JUICE B520 MALIE JAAWS RTE3 UTAHS R507 GTK Y587 COZIE FLIPR FLIPR2

PFPX insists on flying back to FOWEE and then back to FLIPR. Looking at the STAR chart for KMIA, this is probably caused by the fact that all transitions end at FOWEE. However, if I decide to join the STAR at a later point (in this case FLIPR), there is no way to override PFPX to accept the later moment of joining on the STAR. There is room for improvement here in a way that waypoints on the STAR should be recognized and the STAR should be picked up from any waypoint in the flightplan that is part of it.

Mark

[srcooke 422]

Looking at the chart Mark the entry point to FILPR2 is FOWEE so your route should be:

JUICE B520 MALIE DCT ROBLE DCT UTAHS R507 GTK Y587 COZIE DCT FOWEE FLIPR2

otherwise you aren't using the STAR at all

Alternatively this to use the NASSAU Transition:

JUICE B520 MALIE DCT ROBLE DCT UTAHS R507 GTK Y587 DONEZ A555 ZQA FLIPR2

[mjansen 7]

Looking at the chart Mark the entry point to FILPR2 is FOWEE so your route should be:

JUICE B520 MALIE DCT ROBLE DCT UTAHS R507 GTK Y587 COZIE DCT FOWEE FLIPR2

otherwise you aren't using the STAR at all

Alternatively this to use the NASSAU Transition:

JUICE B520 MALIE DCT ROBLE DCT UTAHS R507 GTK Y587 DONEZ A555 ZQA FLIPR2

Thanks for the heads up, but it's a real world route from FlightAware. And since the name on the chart is also called FLIPR.FLIPR2, it should be valid to join the arrival route at FLIPR.

Mark

[srcooke 422]

I guess you could file direct to FLIPR and then use FLIPR runway transition which is listed in FMC entries but FLIPR2 definitely enters at FOWEE:

[dz111 11]

And since the name on the chart is also called FLIPR.FLIPR2, it should be valid to join the arrival route at FLIPR.

You find that all of the charts do that. The FLIPR STAR is simply an RNAV version of the FOWEE STAR. The routing is exactly the same until LUVLY where the FLIPR STAR takes you onto downwind to land on the easterly runways.

The STAR commences at FOWEE - you are generally not allowed to flight plan to join a STAR half-way. The only time you would join a STAR half-way is if a controller had vectored you for sequencing and wanted you to rejoin the STAR at a later point.

It's not surprising that PFPX makes mistakes - it's a computer tool that can't possibly deal with every possible scenario. It does a hell of a better job than most tools out there (and those tools make the life of virtual controllers difficult), but at the end of the day, a human being should be checking the output. And after the human has checked the output, PFPX even lets him make adjustments, again, unlike tools that we've seen before!