246 replies to this topic

[Mathijs Kok]

Aerosoft will release NavDataPro this summer. This is a navigation data set to be used in advanced aircraft and planning/routing/tracking tools. As this is a rather special product we think it is a good idea to provide some answers you might have.

 

Do I need a product like this?
Depends. If you run a serious simulator setup or you fly online it is a very good idea to have an up to date data set. It's also something that all high end aircraft add-ons require (though they all comes with a data set to start with).

Why compete with Navigraph?
Simple, we were offered this more extensive data set and we think it a very good idea to have a second source of data for the many advanced aircraft (and tools) being used now. Of course, being a commercial firm we also hope to make some money!

Where does this data come from?
This data set comes from Lufthansa Systems and is also known as Lido/FMS.

Does this change the simulator?
The navigation database of FS 2004 and FSX will remain as it is, this is only used by add-ons. It is also fully compatible with X-plane 10.

Interface
The NavDataPro dataset comes with a user friendly interface that will allow you to select download and install the datasets. No manual manipulation needed.

Compatibility
The data sets will be available in the same format as Navigraph and will be 100% compatible. Both data sets are completely interchangeable. So it will work fine in PMDG/PSS/Wilco etc.

Reliability
The LIDO database is used by commercial aircraft all over the world and it updated monthly. It is the most dependable database available. We got a long term contract with the supplier.

Pricing and availability
We will offer the product at a competitive price and will offer a single data set, a set of 4 data sets, or a full yearly set (13 data sets). Our own aircraft (like the Airbus X Extended and CRJ) will come with a up to date free of charge. The product is scheduled to be released this summer.

Real versus simulation (aka will it cover airports that no longer in real life?)
This a real world database. An exact copy of the database used in tens of thousand of aircraft. It will not have any fictional data.

[Herman]

I love competition! I'll be following this with interest, and will likely switch if it's advantageous.

Here's one of the inevitable questions you can't cover in a brief Q&A: Users of the NGX (among others) are frustrated at the incomplete coverage of FMS appraches into Innsbruck. Unless this was just fixed, the LOC DME West still isn't available. Will it be in NavDataPro?

What can you add about coverage of RNP approaches and a comparison with Navigraph?

[Egbert Drenth]

Sounds interesting.
Can you post an image of the interface and/or chart examples or is there a web page where we can see the interface/charts?

EDIT:
Nevermind, it is only the FMC nav data not the (approach/aorport) charts, right?

[Chris F.]

Very very interesting. Can't wait to try it out.

[hero93]

Do you consider to distribute Lido Charts in the future, as well?

[Mathijs Kok]

I love competition! I'll be following this with interest, and will likely switch if it's advantageous.

Here's one of the inevitable questions you can't cover in a brief Q&A: Users of the NGX (among others) are frustrated at the incomplete coverage of FMS appraches into Innsbruck. Unless this was just fixed, the LOC DME West still isn't available. Will it be in NavDataPro?

What can you add about coverage of RNP approaches and a comparison with Navigraph?

LOWI is complete as far as I can see, certainly there are more procedures then in Navigraph. Not 100% sure on RNP approaches, but will follow up on that.

[Mathijs Kok]

Do you consider to distribute Lido Charts in the future, as well?

Not at this moment.

[Fabian Boulegue]

Sounds interesting.
Can you post an image of the interface and/or chart examples or is there a web page where we can see the interface/charts?

EDIT:
Nevermind, it is only the FMC nav data not the (approach/aorport) charts, right?

Not yet ! Will do it if its finished.

Greets
Fabian

[Emi]

This sounds interesting! I'm going to see if I'll buy it. I still have a navigraph one year package to go with, but I'll surely will buy at least one of your updates to check how big the difference is!

Does this change the simulator?
The navigation database of FS 2004 and FSX will remain as it is, this is only used by add-ons. It is also fully compatible with X-plane 10.

When you're already talking about this, have you thouhgt of making such an update for FS itself?
For example you could add the variation based on current charts or add/delete new/old airports or VORs and NDBs. I'd certanly be in for such a product!

[Joshua Che.]

This sounds interesting! I'm going to see if I'll buy it. I still have a navigraph one year package to go with, but I'll surely will buy at least one of your updates to check how big the difference is!



When you're already talking about this, have you thouhgt of making such an update for FS itself?
For example you could add the variation based on current charts or add/delete new/old airports or VORs and NDBs. I'd certanly be in for such a product!

I believe to edit the Navdata for FSX itself will be mammoth as FSX compiles navdata into many bgls.

[Mathijs Kok]

I believe to edit the Navdata for FSX itself will be mammoth as FSX compiles navdata into many bgls.

Besides, I am sure it would lead to all kinds of issues like ILS's leading down to runways that are not in FS etc.

[kaspis29]

Sounds great! Hope it makes the flights more realistic. It is going to be a monthly regular update, right?

[Dion73]

Hi,
If aerosoft would include vhhx kai tak this would surely be a great plus for a lot of us... A simple set of procedures that only have to be included once and will be the same in every following update forever/;)
Kind regards,
Dion

[Herman]

LOWI is complete as far as I can see, certainly there are more procedures then in Navigraph. Not 100% sure on RNP approaches, but will follow up on that.

Very good news indeed! I take it from your answer that all the publicly available approaches for LOWI are planned for inclusion. Right there, you've got me as a customer, since some are missing from the Navigraph coverage.

As for RNP approaches, of course I'm referring to public ones. Private ones require the appropriate charts and I wouldn't expect to see you offer them.

[Jan-Paul Schuchna]

Hi,

all RNP Approaches that are NOT tailored ones should be included. So LOWI R26 should be there.


Jan-Paul

[mopperle]

Hi,
If aerosoft would include vhhx kai tak this would surely be a great plus for a lot of us... A simple set of procedures that only have to be included once and will be the same in every following update forever/;)
Kind regards,
Dion

Doesn't make any sense: Aerosoft gets REAL world data from a REAL world airline. And as Kai Tak is simply history, the dataset is as it is: REAL world.

[lonewulf47]

Sounds great! Hope it makes the flights more realistic. It is going to be a monthly regular update, right?

We should avoid using the term "monthly update" when it comes to Nav Databases. The Update Cycle is worldwide fixed to the 28-day AIRAC Cycle which is definitely not a monthly rhythm. Full updates are available every fourth thursday. Last update was on May 31st, next will therefore be on June 28th and so on.

Oskar

[Mathijs Kok]

Hi,
If aerosoft would include vhhx kai tak this would surely be a great plus for a lot of us... A simple set of procedures that only have to be included once and will be the same in every following update forever/;)
Kind regards,
Dion

We will never add anything. This is not a data set build and maintained by us. We will (and legally can) only distribute it as it is used in real aviation.

[Mathijs Kok]

We should avoid using the term "monthly update" when it comes to Nav Databases. The Update Cycle is worldwide fixed to the 28-day AIRAC Cycle which is definitely not a monthly rhythm. Full updates are available every fourth thursday. Last update was on May 31st, next will therefore be on June 28th and so on.

Oskar

Indeed we will update every 28 days.

[deetee]

I use tools like FS Commander and Aivlasoft EFB for flight planning, and VoxATC for ATC (the latter currently uses the Level-D 767 format Navigraph data to assign you SIDS and STARS).
Will we be able to import the Navdata Pro data into formats such as these?

Thanks.

[Mathijs Kok]

I use tools like FS Commander and Aivlasoft EFB for flight planning, and VoxATC for ATC (the latter currently uses the Level-D 767 format Navigraph data to assign you SIDS and STARS).
Will we be able to import the Navdata Pro data into formats such as these?

Thanks.

Sure, it is 100% compatible with Navigraph.

[ScottM]

Sounds very interesting. I fly a lot of the high-quality payware (PMDG MD-11 and JS41, QW757 ect.) and now as he data witch comes with those is now getting old (think the QW ARIAC is from 2010 or something) so, price dependant you will have me buying this

[mopperle]

Sure, it is 100% compatible with Navigraph.

So there will be different download formats? Because some products use simple txt files, others use MS Access and others something compiled, like FSC.

[Mathijs Kok]

So there will be different download formats? Because some products use simple txt files, others use MS Access and others something compiled, like FSC.

Sure, you will download the data in the correct format for each product. Replacing Navigraph is just a matter of dropping it in. Our Airbus X Extended will have an option to select either database (but it comes with NavDataPro of course.

[mopperle]

Sure, you will download the data in the correct format for each product. Replacing Navigraph is just a matter of dropping it in. Our Airbus X Extended will have an option to select either database (but it comes with NavDataPro of course.

Great! And now dreaming of the Lido/FlightBag

[James A]

Sounds interesting. Two question though, can an individual edit the relevant files to add fictisious airports etcetera like one can with Navigraph and will there be an idiots guide?

[mopperle]

Sounds interesting. Two question though, can an individual edit the relevant files to add fictisious airports etcetera like one can with Navigraph and will there be an idiots guide?

I did this in the past with the Navigraph data, and that's what it means:
- manually editing txt files or manually editing the structure of MS Access database, repeating this on various locations depending on the addon you are using
- repeating this procedure for each new cycle.
So I stopped doing it as it is not worth the time you have to spend.

So I'm 100% sure that Aerosoft
- will never provide you with a guide how to do this
- will never explain you the structure of the dataset
- weill never give you any support when you do something on your own risk
- and maybe it could also be a violation of the EULA

So keep it as it is: Real Wold Data!

[Bryn]

Will you support FOC 2003?

[Mathijs Kok]

I did this in the past with the Navigraph data, and that's what it means:
- manually editing txt files or manually editing the structure of MS Access database, repeating this on various locations depending on the addon you are using
- repeating this procedure for each new cycle.
So I stopped doing it as it is not worth the time you have to spend.

So I'm 100% sure that Aerosoft
- will never provide you with a guide how to do this
- will never explain you the structure of the dataset
- weill never give you any support when you do something on your own risk
- and maybe it could also be a violation of the EULA

So keep it as it is: Real Wold Data!

Correct on all items.

[Mathijs Kok]

Will you support FOC 2003?

If you can use Navigraph you sure can use NavDataPro.

[Emmanuel Kurz]

What does this mean?

Can the NavDataPro be a complete drop-in replacement in place of Navigraph, for aircraft that only know about Navigraph (eg PMDG 747-400X, 737NGX, MD-11X);

Yes! As mentioned you will be able to download the new database in the correct format, the addon(s) need. Its just a new source!

best regards,
Emmanuel

[vonmar]

Question on purchasing / price.

Navigraph uses "credits" that easily expire if not used in a given time period. Personally, I do not like this usage/time limit system. I have, as many others have, lost cycles also several times.

Will you be using this system?

[Mathijs Kok]

What does this mean?

Can the NavDataPro be a complete drop-in replacement in place of Navigraph, for aircraft that only know about Navigraph (eg PMDG 747-400X, 737NGX, MD-11X);

Yes, the format of all datafiles is exactly the same, just more data!

[Mathijs Kok]

Question on purchasing / price.

Navigraph uses "credits" that easily expire if not used in a given time period. Personally, I do not like this usage/time limit system. I have, as many others have, lost cycles also several times.

Will you be using this system?

I see the issue and will discuss that.
We will sell single data sets, 4 data sets a year or 13 data sets per year. I am sure we can send you a reminder or download link when there is a new one available for you.

[vonmar]

Thanks.
What is a data set?

[Moshe]

sounds very interesting. looking forward!

[Emmanuel Kurz]

Thanks.
What is a data set?

... A data set (or dataset) is a collection of data, usually presented in tabular form. Each column represents a particular variable. Each row corresponds to a given member of the data set in question. It lists values for each of the variables, such as height and weight of an object. Each value is known as a datum. ...

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_set

So in each row for example you have a VOR:

For example (this is not the correct representation of the format(!!!)):
CODE NAME FREQ LAT LON
LNZ LINZ 116.60 48.229698 14 6.191998
SBG SALZBURG 48.323856 16.490953
...

and the same for NDB, SID, STAR, Airports, Routes.

Best regards,
Emmanuel

[vonmar]

Emmanuel,

Navigraph sells "credits" to download AIRAC cycles.
Aerosoft will sell DataSets ... is that the same?