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Twin Otter Extended Preview (FSX,P3D)


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A really awesome virtual cockpit! thumbsup2.gif

It almost feels like being there (not that I've ever been in a Twotter, lol).

I've flown once in a Twotter (a short 15 minutes flight). That was a cargo/passengers flight and there was so much cargo between us and the cockpit that i never saw the cockpit or pilots.

Real Deraps

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Hi guys

I've only just seen this series of posts about the up-and-coming all-new Twin Otter. Please accept my comments in the light they are intended - observations, questions, exploring possibilities. Frankly, I am in awe of those of you who have the skill, knowledge and motivation to do what you do. I fly for a living - a simple machine operator, but I do like my flight sim!

I have the Twin Otter X, and it's really nice to fly until in approach and landing configuration where it strikes me as awkward and sluggish. I flew the DHC6-300 for some years and I remember it being quite responsive - had to be really, especially on final into tropical airstrips surrounded by coconut plantations, in a blustery south-east trade wind...

I have wondered too about this issue with propellor feathering at start and shutdown. In the real aircraft, having the prop levers in feather causes the fuel control unit to reduce the amount of fuel, supplying just enough to keep the engines at idle. The props settle down at some fairly low rpm, eg around 225 in the Dash 8. The FSX "engine" ADDS fuel when you feather the props, increasing torque.

Twotter X doesn't do this exactly which is nice - prop rpm decreases on the gauge, but sitting inside the cockpit it SOUNDS as if it's actually increasing.

Outside it's ok, although there's no visual rendition of feathered props until the engines are actually shut down.

I reckon that an animation of feathered props, spinning at a few hundred rpm (when the engines are running, of course) when the propellor levers are at minimum rpm would just give that added layer of realism. And a gradual rather than sudden transition in and out of feather - the real thing takes about 6-7 seconds to accelerate out of feather after start; feathering prior to shutdown is quicker and is accompanied by a very distinctive growl.

Just my two bob worth- what do you think? Meanwhile, thanks for all your efforts so far - I'm looking forward to seeing what's coming next!

Chris

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  • Aerosoft

Hi guys

I've only just seen this series of posts about the up-and-coming all-new Twin Otter. Please accept my comments in the light they are intended - observations, questions, exploring possibilities. Frankly, I am in awe of those of you who have the skill, knowledge and motivation to do what you do. I fly for a living - a simple machine operator, but I do like my flight sim!

I have the Twin Otter X, and it's really nice to fly until in approach and landing configuration where it strikes me as awkward and sluggish. I flew the DHC6-300 for some years and I remember it being quite responsive - had to be really, especially on final into tropical airstrips surrounded by coconut plantations, in a blustery south-east trade wind...

I have wondered too about this issue with propellor feathering at start and shutdown. In the real aircraft, having the prop levers in feather causes the fuel control unit to reduce the amount of fuel, supplying just enough to keep the engines at idle. The props settle down at some fairly low rpm, eg around 225 in the Dash 8. The FSX "engine" ADDS fuel when you feather the props, increasing torque.

Twotter X doesn't do this exactly which is nice - prop rpm decreases on the gauge, but sitting inside the cockpit it SOUNDS as if it's actually increasing.

Outside it's ok, although there's no visual rendition of feathered props until the engines are actually shut down.

I reckon that an animation of feathered props, spinning at a few hundred rpm (when the engines are running, of course) when the propellor levers are at minimum rpm would just give that added layer of realism. And a gradual rather than sudden transition in and out of feather - the real thing takes about 6-7 seconds to accelerate out of feather after start; feathering prior to shutdown is quicker and is accompanied by a very distinctive growl.

Just my two bob worth- what do you think? Meanwhile, thanks for all your efforts so far - I'm looking forward to seeing what's coming next!

Chris

Thanks for your comments! As we now know how to handle these things much better we decided to do this new version, so I think that you will see these things all changed.

You say you flew the Twotter, can I invite you for the beta? We are still looking for some people to verify the flight model etc.

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l live up the street on the other side of CYYC from the Viking hanger. Want me to go in and take someone hostage for the BETA? I watched a new one take off the other day for their 3 hour test flight. they start out painted green.

On the subject of BETA, it must be difficult to nail roll rate and aileron sensitivity with the huge number of variables in setups. We have everything from Saitek Pro Flight, Saitek Pro Cessna, CH eclipse type units up to $600 precision flight yokes. They all behave differently and add to that people customizing sensitivity in FsX or using FSUIPC to modify things all affecting the way planes behave in FSX and then complaining about the flight models.

I wonder if a way around that is provide a calibration technique where you can tell us... for those interrested, full deflection at X speed IAS results in 90 degress bank angle in aproximately X seconds... for max accuracy, please adjust optionally, your yoke or stIck sensitivity. on second thought, that might open a can of worms.

C

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Guys, that looks truly and purely amazingly awesome.. it's getting better and better every time I check this thread.. really nice !!

@ Chris Allan :

About those propellers, mounted on PT6A free turbine engines.. after many investigations, talks with the pilot and some mechanics for my Pilatus research work, the reasons of " 6-7 seconds to go from feather to ground fine pitch, and much quicker to feather " is due that, Hartzell props works like that :

The two " actuators " of blades pitch is :

- To coarsen ( from low pitch toward feather ), it's a big string pring, located inside the hub, which, when Np ( prop speed ) is getting low ( after shutdown.. or engine fail ! ) has sufficient force to bring the blade pitch against feather stops, usually between 85-90°. In addition, " counterweights " are mounted on blade root to, with centrifugal force, help the spring to feather the prop. ( see my little video :

)

- To fine the pitch, it's hydraulically actuated, oil pressure is supplied by the turbine. In other words, you can't unfeather the prop if the turbine is not running to supply that oil pressure ( this is why any free turbine propeller, PT6 Like, is always in feather position when plane parked or so, you actually can't see it " flat pitch " except while in maintenance ), to create a superior force than the spring and counterweights combination.

All that to explain why it's slower to unfeather ( hydraulic pressure slow to rise ) than to feather ( the oil is dumped out from the hub, immediately makes spring and counterweights force sufficient to coarse the blades against feather stops ). Wondering if all this little system can be ( and worth ? ) to be simulated in FS. But of course it would add it's touch of realism ;-)

Also, any chance to see this wonder in X-Plane 10 ?

Valentin

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Good day Mathijs Kok . I was reading on one of the page's that you are still looking for some pilots to test out the otter. I am a captain on the twin otter and fly for a small cargo company based out of Toronto, and have 3000 hours under my belt. I was woundering i have time at night to do some Beta testing and would like to help out with some of my knowlege. Will you please consider me on part of your team. Thanks again . My system is an AMD XF6100 Video card is ATI 4650 8 gig of ram 24'' Acer Monitor. And Window's 7 / 64 bit

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  • Aerosoft

Not complete but at least it gives a good idea on the plans:

Models

  • 100 normal wheels 620 shp (4 blades)
  • 300 normal wheels 620 shp (3 blades) normal door
  • 300 normal wheels 620 shp (3 blades) air stair
  • 300 tundra wheels 620 shp
  • 300 floats 620 shp
  • 300 ski/wheel 620 shp
  • 100 normal wheels 620 shp (streamlined exhaust)
  • 100 normal wheels 550 shp
  • 100 tundra wheels 620 shp
  • 100 tundra wheels 550 shp
  • 100 floater 550 shp


    Flight models
    • Very high end flight models for all version.


      Engines and airframe

      • More realistic engine indications for Torque, RPM and ITT
      • Engine anti icing (inertial seperator) influence on engine parameters
      • Propeller start locks on Float versions
      • Engine failures due to overtorque, overtemp, engine icing or hotstarts
      • Structural icing influence on flight performance
      • Functional Fire detection and extinguishing system
      • Custom electrical, fuel and hydraulic systems
      • Avionics:

          [*]Custom coded GPS with Com1 & Nav1 radios

          [*]United instruments 5506L-S Altitude alerter

          [*]Bendix King KX 155 Com2 and Nav2 radios

          [*]Bendix king KN 64 DME

          [*]Bendix King KR 87 ADF radio

          [*]Bendix King KT 70 transponder

          [*]Bendix King KMA Audio panel

          [*]Collins AP-106 Autopilot with Flight director, manual autopilot mode, IAS hold, altitude capture, Go Around mode, MDA mode, Ded Rec mode as well as hdg, Nav and approach modes.

          [*]Digital Flight Flight Data Recorder where data can be shown in Google Maps

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  • Aerosoft

can we have on on anphib floats mathijs thx.

garmin just releaced a new set of radios. look into it for future prodjects please.

chadhitteberger

Chat, we are only doing the models listed and for avionics we always a base model (an existing real aircraft). And so far the new set has not popped up in any of those. For sure there is no Twin Otter that uses the GNC range.

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