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Aerosoft (DA) CRJ Preview (Released)

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JRBarrett    154
4 hours ago, Allbakedout said: Wow, didn't expect to see that announcement... I can't wait!!! How much will this be expected to cost? (Sorry too lazy to search)

Well - you could just read the whole thread again? 

 

3 hours ago, JRBarrett said:  

Keep in mind that the real CRJ is considerably less complex than a 737/747/777 - especially its FMS and autopilot. There are no autothrottles - climbs are performed in IAS mode with FADEC limiting thrust and speed controlled by pitch. On a warm day, with a heavy load, the aircraft is not not a "high performance sports car" by any means - though definitely a better performer than the CRJ-200

 

Cruise and descent require the pilot to manage thrust manually, and monitor it continuously. Don't expect to be able to leave the flight deck while in cruise for a protracted break as you could with more advanced types with autothrottles and full VNAV.

 

The FMS is rather basic in its modes (in the real aircraft). VNAV is "advisory" only, and is really only used during descent. You can see if you are above or below your desired descent profile, but managing that profile is up to the pilot, using thrust and V/S intervention if need be.

 

In other words, the pilot has to think ahead of the aircraft much more than in more advanced types. Complex STAR arrivals with multiple speed and altitude constraints require constant pilot attention - especially when winds aloft are part of the equation - you can't just dial down the altitude upon reaching TOD and relax while the autopilot does everything.

 

There are no auto brakes, and thrust reversers have to be manually armed before landing or they will not deploy when called for.

 

Yaw dampers and mach trim have to be manually selected "on" before takeoff or the autopilot won't engage, or won't function correctly.

 

I think that all onboard systems are accurately modeled. You probably won't find extensive failure modeling as you would with a typical PMDG product, but if you were to use a real CRJ POH to perform all the various system tests that would be required on the first flight of the day, you would probably find that said systems respond exactly as they would in the real aircraft.

 

(Or so I'm told )

 

The real CRJ has some system peculiarities that might be mis-identified as "bugs" by those new to the aircraft.

 

Turning on either electric fuel boost pump also automatically turns on the opposite side boost pump - but you need to insure that both switches are depressed before engine start or you will see CAS error messages.

 

There are no fewer than 4 auxiliary electric hydraulic pumps - 3 of which have both a manual and automatic mode of operation. These have to be set properly before takeoff.

 

The APU master switch only lights up if there is a fault. After pressing it, you have to monitor the system synoptic display to see if the APU is ready to start.

 

One system in the real CRJ 700/900 is actually MORE advanced than (say) the 737, and that is bleed air management. Packs will automatically go offline during an engine start, and come back on after the start is complete. APU and engine bleed air valves automatically sequence open and closed at the proper time without pilot intervention. In that regard, the CRJ is more like a 777.

 

 

 

Interesting. Thanks for the insight... Is it similar to the Dash-8 then?

 

Yes and no. Higher performance of course. In the Q400 in cruise, you can pretty much leave the power levers set, and it will maintain speed quite well.

 

In the CRJ, you have to pay much closer attention to speed once leveling off. If your Mach creeps up higher than your desired speed, a slight reduction in power - perhaps with a touch of speed brakes- will get you slowed down smoothly.

 

On the other hand, if you let your speed drop too low, it takes QUITE a bit of power to accelerate back to your desired cruise Mach number. (Or IAS if you are below about 26,000 feet.

 

In climb, the CRJ is very docile. Normally you select 250 knots below 10,000 feet, and 290 knots for climb above 10,000 feet - you simply press the SPD button once, and advance the power levers to the CLB detent. The aircraft will pitch up to maintain your selected speed. What you cannot control directly control is RATE of climb. You accept whatever you get, which will vary depending on your weight and the OAT. Typically around 2000 - 3000 FPM until getting above about FL200, when the rate may scale back a bit.

 

You can climb in V/S mode, but that can be dangerous at higher altitudes, as the aircraft will happily pitch you up into a stall if you have a vertical speed set too high, and are not carrying enough power.

 

You have to pay attention though as the aircraft levels off. This is when you have to actively begin reducing thrust, or the aircraft can overspeed rather quickly.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Tom A320    2929
5 hours ago, kityatyi1 said:

I am wondering how is the ground friction going to be like with this aircraft. As it has been in development for so many years I expect an improved ground physics model here like the newer PMDG aircraft, the MJC Q400 or the A2A birds. All serious developers need to overcome the crappy default ground physics.

 

Please have a look here:

 

 

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Hightower    156
4 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

 

Keep in mind that the real CRJ is considerably less complex than a 737/747/777 - especially its FMS and autopilot. There are no autothrottles - climbs are performed in IAS mode with FADEC limiting thrust and speed controlled by pitch. On a warm day, with a heavy load, the aircraft is not not a "high performance sports car" by any means - though definitely a better performer than the CRJ-200

 

Cruise and descent require the pilot to manage thrust manually, and monitor it continuously. Don't expect to be able to leave the flight deck while in cruise for a protracted break as you could with more advanced types with autothrottles and full VNAV.

 

The FMS is rather basic in its modes (in the real aircraft). VNAV is "advisory" only, and is really only used during descent. You can see if you are above or below your desired descent profile, but managing that profile is up to the pilot, using thrust and V/S intervention if need be.

 

In other words, the pilot has to think ahead of the aircraft much more than in more advanced types. Complex STAR arrivals with multiple speed and altitude constraints require constant pilot attention - especially when winds aloft are part of the equation - you can't just dial down the altitude upon reaching TOD and relax while the autopilot does everything.

 

There are no auto brakes, and thrust reversers have to be manually armed before landing or they will not deploy when called for.

 

Yaw dampers and mach trim have to be manually selected "on" before takeoff or the autopilot won't engage, or won't function correctly.

 

I think that all onboard systems are accurately modeled. You probably won't find extensive failure modeling as you would with a typical PMDG product, but if you were to use a real CRJ POH to perform all the various system tests that would be required on the first flight of the day, you would probably find that said systems respond exactly as they would in the real aircraft.

 

(Or so I'm told emoji12.png)

 

The real CRJ has some system peculiarities that might be mis-identified as "bugs" by those new to the aircraft.

 

Turning on either electric fuel boost pump also automatically turns on the opposite side boost pump - but you need to insure that both switches are depressed before engine start or you will see CAS error messages.

 

There are no fewer than 4 auxiliary electric hydraulic pumps - 3 of which have both a manual and automatic mode of operation. These have to be set properly before takeoff.

 

The APU master switch only lights up if there is a fault. After pressing it, you have to monitor the system synoptic display to see if the APU is ready to start.

 

One system in the real CRJ 700/900 is actually MORE advanced than (say) the 737, and that is bleed air management. Packs will automatically go offline during an engine start, and come back on after the start is complete. APU and engine bleed air valves automatically sequence open and closed at the proper time without pilot intervention. In that regard, the CRJ is more like a 777.

 

 

 

I think this is a great thing. Something quite different and a little challenging rather than just pressing AP.  Its why flying the NGX manually can be alot of fun managing your own descents and speeds. 

 

Congratulations to Hans and the entire team to seeing this long long project thru to the end. Have no doubt it will be a great success especially since P3D V4 has few aircraft to fly in. 

 

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FWAviation    350
vor 32 Minuten, Hans Hartmann sagte:

After all, I think the CRJ has turned out to be a nicely detailed product which will be fun to use - once you got the hang of the CRJ specials (for example having to switch the nav source from FMS to VOR/LOC before hitting that APPR button). You can also trust Jim Barrett's evaluation of the product here. He was one of the beta testers and also works on CRJs in real life.

 

And one sure can feel that @JRBarrett knows what he is talking about. Thank you for the great explanation about the peculiarities of the CRJ, Jim! Mathijs explained them here before, but that was many months ago and I have to admit that I didn't understand all of them right away. Now I finally did - and I'm looking very much forward to experience those peculiarities "in person" (albeit only in a virtual plane)! ;)

 

And just to add a bit to my earlier "swooning over the CRJ" post: For my last two flights on Lufthansa's CRJ-900s, I had seats in the plane's aft section, near the engines. It's almost deafening for a few seconds when they start up and produce that deep bass growl during the start of combustion - just amazing, since you never experience such an intense growl in planes that have their engines fixed to the wing as opposed to the fuselage! And no, I don't expect that sound in the cockpit of your CRJ. ;)

 

And I also have a question for you, @JRBarrett: You mentioned that one has to manually control the thrust in the CRJ during cruise. The thrust changes are usually only very minimal, right (unless there are abrupt wind changes)? Because I was surprised that even despite manual thrust control, one could hardly ever hear noticeable thrust changes during cruise in my real life CRJ flights as a passenger. I guess that as soon as I control the thrust of "my" Aerosoft CRJ during cruise or descent, I will have difficulties to not push or pull the thrust lever too far. I suppose one has to have very fine motor skills in order to apply the only minimal thrust changes needed. ;)

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Frank Docter    3795

The throttles on the CRJ have a large "throw" to make that adjustment easier. The difference with the A320 freaked me out the first 100 hours. 1 mm of movement in an CRJ is 0.3% N1, in the Airbus it is 8 %. ;) 

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FWAviation    350
vor 6 Minuten, Frank Docter sagte:

The throttles on the CRJ have a large "throw" to make that adjustment easier. The difference with the A320 freaked me out the first 100 hours. 1 mm of movement in an CRJ is 0.3% N1, in the Airbus it is 8 %. ;) 

 

Thanks for the explanation. The only catch is that the "throw" of my Thrustmaster throttle isn't that large. And my fine motor skills are... well, let me put it this way: I could not become a goldsmith or make ships in a bottle. ;) But I guess it will be great training for my motor skills.

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With H.Hartmann onboard if this plane is as good as the DA Cheyenne(I'm still flying it in P3D), no doubt it will be awesome.

 

Cheers

 

Pat

 

 

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Frank Docter    3795
28 minutes ago, FWAviation said:

 

The only catch is that the "throw" of my Thrustmaster throttle isn't that large. 

 

I have the TM Warthog and unfortunately setting the correct cruise N1 can be a bit of an hasle. Make very small corrections!

 

I flew the CRJ beta so much that I am now at the same level as I was when I flew her IRL. I can set the throttle by feel and it just works. Practice makes perfect. ;) 

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Legacy650    16

Great way to finish a day at work. I'll be looking forward to picking this up when I get home from this trip. I've been following this development since before I started flying for a living; it's funny to look back and see how far we've come! Going to be a long few days coming up but when I get home Friday, I'll be headed straight to my computer (assuming all goes well between now and then). Congrats to all involved!

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Anders Bermann    506
36 minutes ago, Citation X said:

And guess who your new pilot will be? that's right Frank Docter

 

 

If Frank is gonna be the pilot, then I'm not boarding!

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kityatyi1    51
3 hours ago, Tom A320 said:

 

Please have a look here:

 

 


This is only half of an answer. There might technically not be such thing as ground friction model yet several developers managed to improve on whaheter-we-call-it-ground-physics, ground movement experience, or taxi physics etc. No need to explain it away or hijack the fact: let's be simple and straightforward: unlike PMDG\s newer aircraft, unlike FSLAB's A320 (and future releases), unlike the Majestic Q400 or any of the A2A product range, the new CRJ comes with the default, crap ground-whatever- we-call-physics. I think  improvements on this such as is the case with the previously listed products is a realistic expectation in 2017. They are the proof that there is a solution, workaround or way to improve and anyone who states otherwise is wrong. No matter how we call it, we all know what are we talking about. 

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Eric Bakker    582
7 minutes ago, kityatyi1 said:


unlike PMDG\s newer aircraft, unlike FSLAB's A320 (and future releases), unlike the Majestic Q400 or any of the A2A product range, the new CRJ comes with the default, crap ground-whatever- we-call-physics.

 

I think you should wait with judging a product until you tried the (unreleased) product.

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FWAviation    350
Vor 1 Stunde, Hans Hartmann sagte:

Actually, I probably use the same kind of Thrustmaster throttle (the one on the T16000M) and I agree about the required skills to properly set it. To make it easier for myself, I added a little (optional) feature called "throttle hint" that displays the throttle detent on the PFD. It will show "MAN", "CLB", "TOGA" or "MAX". This helps a lot with this specific hardware.

ThrottleHint.PNG

 

Thanks, Hans! No, I have the T-Flight Hotas X (joystick and thrust lever) - but your throttle hint will sure help.

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Just now, FWAviation said:

 

Thanks, Hans! No, I have the T-Flight Hotas X (joystick and thrust lever) - but your throttle hint will sure help.

Does the thrust lever have the same thrust range issue as the normal T16000M?

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FWAviation    350
gerade, Hans Hartmann sagte:

Does the thrust lever have the same thrust range issue as the normal T16000M?

 

I sadly can't answer that, I know nothing about the T16000M. But please feel free to send me a direct message, so we can keep it out of the public discussion.

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kityatyi1    51
3 minutes ago, Eric Bakker said:

 

I think you should wait with judging a product until you tried the (unreleased) product.


If no improvements are made on this then there is nothing to wait. The default "taxi-feel" is awful, one must apply a lot of power to get an aircraft moving and once you reduce power it comes to a complete stop in no time. Also it is a hell to prevent runaway taxi with no change made to the ground behaviour. This is why I decided not to purchase the otherwise nice Boeing 717 of TFDS and even though I am sure this CRJ is going to be an amazing aircraft, the fact that after 6 years or so such a basic aspect was not improved upon is disappointing. Nevertheless I stop repeating myself as it won't help the case, I have now learned what I wanted to know and I appreciate your responses.

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