202 replies to this topic

[Mathijs Kok]

Gentlemen, I will make this a short and sweet post.

Last weekend we had a lot of meetings regarding the new possible simulator to be done by Aerosoft. Now first of all I got to state that we are NOT yet ready to say that there will be one. But I can say that the probability is a lot larger now. From 50% last week to 80% now. We are currently investing officially money in this project. We are currently using the unofficial name Aerosoft Flight Simulator 2012. A brilliant name if I say so myself, we got our name (Aerosoft) in it, we got what we intend to do (Flight Simulator) in the name and we even got the release year in it. I do not expect this name to be used for the release btw, but for now lets call it AFS2012, okay?

Following up from the less structured discussions we had we are now focusing into clearly defined topics. We hope you will be helping us shape the new sim with your comments. But please note that we will remove comments that are not structurally important to the process. You will see a new topic appear about every week.

[Aetos1160]

Great news, thanks for the info Mathijs. So, what is the release date again? Ah, Ah, Ah, just joking of course!

[Mathijs Kok]

Great news, thanks for the info Mathijs. So, what is the release date again? Ah, Ah, Ah, just joking of course!

Easter 2012

[Sharrow]

This is fantastic news Mathijs!

[PNyman]

Indeed wonderful news! It's great to have this to look forward to

It would be nice to have topics about the game/graphics engines you are considering and also the ATC system.

[Mavrocket]

Great to hear this news! I'm sure you (Aerosoft) can all pull off an incredible product, you have already proven yourselves time and time again!

[Waleed]

Fantastic news. I am looking forward to the release.

I think the most important thing for me is to have AFS2012 last long enough (say four years?) for us to enjoy a healthy ROI. A lot of money is invested into this hobby, and enjoying it as long as possible is essential. Make it modular, and add (for a reasonable fee) upgrades every so often to keep it up to date with the latest technological advances.
I think fs9 proved the validity of age maturity to an extent. Besides that, it takes a while for developers to fill the "playground" you create for them, and leaves us with a serious lack of patience when new products are proposed. Are we there yet takes on a more vicious tone in the fs world as everyone knows.

If this is to be a success, we all (including developers) have to come to terms with the best cost/enjoyment index. Updates (not fixes) should not be free if they require serious work, otherwise no one will be interested in doing the work. I hate to say this, as it would mean more cost to me and others, but I strongly believe that we need to "reward" developers for their work so they stay with it, and not get fatigued and move on.

Good luck, and I promise to wait more patiently for this one.

[riccardo74]

Great news! Fantastic. Great name, AFS2012.

A suggestion, can you create many different topics, example:

1) ATC

2) Navigation databse, just like now

3) Graphic engine

and so on... so we can write in the appropriate section of AFS2012.

I hope you take care of users suggestions, when you start the earliear topics about Aerosoft FS 2012. There are many and many good ideas and innovation for the new simulator!

[OpenStandard]

Last weekend we had a lot of meetings regarding the new possible simulator to be done by Aerosoft. Now first of all I got to state that we are NOT yet ready to say that there will be one. But I can say that the probability is a lot larger now. From 50% last week to 80% now. We are currently investing officially money in this project. We are currently using the unofficial name Aerosoft Flight Simulator 2012

Matjis, very good to hear that you open the new simulator to Linux as an additional OS platform and also using OpenGL. I must say that is a very clever move. Good luck with your plans and I think you are on the right track here to become more independent.

Cheers
Chris

[CubDriver]

Hello Mathijs,

awesome news. I was really hoping for that and I hope the final decision is positive as well.

You talked about more structured discussions. Thats a good thing and I would have a suggestion: What do you think about creating a subforum or subthread just for potential add-on developers. People, who are interested in creating add-ons or would like to do that in the future for AFS2012 could talk about their wishes for the new platform, have technical discussions etc. That would be really great and is a little different to what the general user would love to have. I think this will help to get it even more structured.

What do you think?

-Pete

[Daveduck]

Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere, but I just saw news about this on X-Plane.org...

Will there be a Mac version?

Thanks.

[lillebix]

Think of all the man hour they are taking from theirs normal addon development.

[Mathijs Kok]

Indeed wonderful news! It's great to have this to look forward to

It would be nice to have topics about the game/graphics engines you are considering and also the ATC system.

Soon.

[Mathijs Kok]

Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere, but I just saw news about this on X-Plane.org...

Will there be a Mac version?

Thanks.

no, we want to fully use the new DX11 options (REALLY makes a difference for sims) and that make a MAC version nearly impossible.

[Mathijs Kok]

Think of all the man hour they are taking from theirs normal addon development.

Mwahhhh, not really as we are hiring new people for this project. And we do expect the market to get slow in 2011 anyway.

[Alexander Barger]

Good to hear this, Mathijs

Hopefully we can give you enough hints in the next weeks/months, so that you will finally start with the developement

[Reco]

no, we want to fully use the new DX11 options (REALLY makes a difference for sims) and that make a MAC version nearly impossible.

Can you please explain more how the DX11 makes a difference for sims?

Different subject.
If it is possible the sim should be designed so it is easy to port to a raytraycing game engine in the future.

Just a few interresting links:
http://www.pcper.com...cle.php?aid=455
http://blogs.intel.c...g_the_end_o.php
http://scarydevil.co...terization.html


Reco

[Mikethebike]

Without a Linux version I'll almost certainly stick to X-plane, Fly!Legacy and Flightgear etc. as I don't intend to update creepy Vista64 anymore.

[MatthewS]

no, we want to fully use the new DX11 options (REALLY makes a difference for sims) and that make a MAC version nearly impossible.

DX11, excellent!

Also, I applaud you on choosing to stick with a Windows only release. This means you can focus on the best technology (eg DX11) for a single platform (Windows) instead of having to follow a "lowest common denominator" approach if you were to target multiple platforms.

[hals1010]

If I may add my 2 cents...


Please don't waste time trying to surpass existing implementations regarding ATC or weather. Make AFS2012 a modular, easy-extensible platform with a sophisticated graphics engine. If this means DX11 on Windows 7, so be it.

If you want a high-end ATC, stick to online flights or purchase Radar Contact 2012.
If you want a high-end weather engine, purchase Active Sky Advanced 2012.
....


Regards,
Jörn

[Mikethebike]

DX11, excellent!

Also, I applaud you on choosing to stick with a Windows only release. This means you can focus on the best technology (eg DX11) for a single platform (Windows) instead of having to follow a "lowest common denominator" approach if you were to target multiple platforms.

OpenGL can do anything that DX11 does! But it has much nicer texture rendering etc. FSX looks dead ugly...I'm sorry. Also targeting multiple platforms has no visual impact at all and only minimal additional work at inital stage.
But hey if you want DX11 why not make it run on Linux with WINE.
DX9 is already working...(not perfect though)

[Mathijs Kok]

Matjis, very good to hear that you open the new simulator to Linux as an additional OS platform and also using OpenGL. I must say that is a very clever move. Good luck with your plans and I think you are on the right track here to become more independent.

Cheers
Chris

Sorry but AFS2012 will be based on Windows7/DX11 (with fall back to older Windows and DirectX versions). So pure Windows.

Think you are confusing Airline Simulator 3, Pilot Flying with this Aerosoft Flight Simulator 2012. They are separate projects. Not linked in any way.

[Mathijs Kok]

OpenGL can do anything that DX11 does! But it has much nicer texture rendering etc. FSX looks dead ugly...I'm sorry. Also targeting multiple platforms has no visual impact at all and only minimal additional work at inital stage.
But hey if you want DX11 why not make it run on Linux with WINE.
DX9 is already working...(not perfect though)

I know OpenGL made advances over the last few years (months actually), but we are going for the much larger and more stable platform and will be using DX11. For all the same reasons as many games developers are making the same decision.

[Mathijs Kok]

Without a Linux version I'll almost certainly stick to X-plane, Fly!Legacy and Flightgear etc. as I don't intend to update creepy Vista64 anymore.

That's fine. We know there are users who do not like Windows. Hope you have fun with those other fine simulators.

[Mathijs Kok]

Can you please explain more how the DX11 makes a difference for sims?

Different subject.
If it is possible the sim should be designed so it is easy to port to a raytraycing game engine in the future.

Just a few interresting links:
http://www.pcper.com...cle.php?aid=455
http://blogs.intel.c...g_the_end_o.php
http://scarydevil.co...terization.html


Reco

Going into a large discussion on DX11 goes to far for this forum (if only because I hardly understand it myself), but there are many pages on the Internet that got good information. For sims the tesselation is by far the most important bit as it allows a much higher degree of details without raising the CPU demand. At the same time we will be able to send CPU tasks to the GPU (that is hundreds of times faster for some things) when needed. So all in all it means that with a good CPU and a good GPU you will be much faster and more flexible.

We do not see a lot of advantages in raytracing. I have been hearing it is about to break through for almost 15 years now, but still have not seen a lot in real time.

[RojanTrojan]

Just out of interest would you be looking at doing something like MS ESP as well as a flight simulator for consumers? I bet there is still a large market for a commecrial based desktop PC simulator for flight schools etc.

Rhydian

[Mathijs Kok]

Just out of interest would you be looking at doing something like MS ESP as well as a flight simulator for consumers? I bet there is still a large market for a commecrial based desktop PC simulator for flight schools etc.

Rhydian

100% yes. And a lot more reliable then Microsoft did it. You got no idea how pissed off major companies where when MS dropped ESP.

The new sim is intended to run standard scenery databases in OpenFlight in the version I will now christen Aerosoft Flight Simulator 2012 Professional. (it is so cool to give names to projects!)

[lindbergh72]

Hello Mathijs

I think it's great news regarding AFS2012 really looking forward to it.

Have some questions:

1. Will it be possible to use SLI (duel graphic cards) ?
2. Which airplanes will be "standard" in AFS12?
3. Will you cooperate with other software partners like you do to day? regarding airports etc.

[RojanTrojan]

100% yes. And a lot more reliable then Microsoft did it. You got no idea how ######ed off major companies where when MS dropped ESP.

The new sim is intended to run standard scenery databases in OpenFlight in the version I will now christen Aerosoft Flight Simulator 2012 Professional. (it is so cool to give names to projects!)

Fantastic news Mathijs! When these companies got dumped by MS we wern't talking small companies either. Northrop Grumman was one of them and I bet they were not best pleased. AFS2012Pro will hopefully regain trust with such high profile companies.

Rhydian

[Mathijs Kok]

Will the knew sim support multi core CPU? if so how many, the Intel I9's will go to 6 cores I think? also will we see multi GPU support with SLI or Crossfire, will the new sim support current hardware controllers ... I'm guessing not anything that rely's on Simconnect though?

Finally, will the sim have multiplay of any kind.

Sorry for so many questions, I've got more but that's enough for now

Thanks.

The new sim will make use of any CPU core you got and will even have the GPU assist the CPU where it can using the DX11 standards. One of the major goals of our projects is to get rid of ANY legacy issue. A total clean braek. Professional developers using modern software will be able to recompile their files for the new sim very easy though. So if you got a 12 core PC, it will use it. If you got a 4 GPU double SLI system, it will use it. We just take what Windows tells us is available, we will NOT talk to any hardware directly.

Simconnect is MS standard so we can't use it. But if we document things well that should not be an issue. In fact I honestly think all major external products that need FSUIPC or SimConnect will be available in a few weeks after the first beta. That's all easy stuff.

Multiplayer mode? Sure! We need it.

[Mathijs Kok]

Hello Mathijs

I think it's great news regarding AFS2012 really looking forward to it.

Have some questions:

1. Will it be possible to use SLI (duel graphic cards) ?
2. Which airplanes will be "standard" in AFS12?
3. Will you cooperate with other software partners like you do to day? regarding airports etc.

1. Yes. If Windows knows about the hardware we'll use it (and a dammed lot better then FSX does).
2. Not decided, but to see if the engine works we'll need to have some of each from helicopters, via ultralights to 380's.
3. We'll listen to all, talk to most of them. AFS2012 is not a program, it's a platform. Without PMDG, Carenado, Limesim and all the others it means nothing. It's our sim, but it is not our platform. We seriously intend to make this a more open platfor, then MS did. See, in the end Aerosoft can NOT make a new sim, we need all our competitors, all our friends, all our customers and even all the people who do not like us to help us. Most know that in 2012 there will not be much of a FSX addon market left. ALL know that in 2012 there will not be an FSX market left.

[Silverbird]

Mathijs, Glad to hear the project is progressing, I really hope you guys make it easy to mod in the sim since that's what keeps a lot of games running for many years, the only thing I can think of is that I hope you guys make sure the engine is very flexible and even go as far as deign it with old hardware as of course the new hardware will run it better.

There are some online massive multiplayer games out there that just take to much to run and are not successful then you have some games that are well coded look wonderful and work on older hardware fine and are doing very well. but I honestly really think that if the engine is good and efficient the more customers you will have, most people cant afford new hardware escpeely in times like these I refuse to believe that we cant have some nice eye candy without performance going down I wish aerosoft the best with the project and I really hope this will be the best flightsim we have seen.

[lindbergh72]

I hope that the graphics interface regarding FPS will be better in AFS12 than FSX

[harvesl]

What's planned in regards to the depiction of flight? Physics engine?

[LufthansaPilot]

Hi Mathijs!

What about the Graphics engine? Are you gonna create a new one?

Can we also expect Combat Planes where you can fire missiles and throw bombs??? If not, are you going to implement sth. so that add on makers will be possible to create for instance missions where you can do that?

[lindbergh72]

Hi Mathijs!

What about the Graphics engine? Are you gonna create a new one?

Can we also expect Combat Planes where you can fire missiles and throw bombs??? If not, are you going to implement sth. so that add on makers will be possible to create for instance missions where you can do that?

Good idea

[MatthewS]

Please don't waste time trying to surpass existing implementations regarding ATC or weather. Make AFS2012 a modular, easy-extensible platform with a sophisticated graphics engine. If this means DX11 on Windows 7, so be it.

If you want a high-end ATC, stick to online flights or purchase Radar Contact 2012.
If you want a high-end weather engine, purchase Active Sky Advanced 2012.

Yes yes yes!

Please Aerosoft don't waste your time and money trying to do complex ATC or weather engines, these are best left to 3rd parties.

IMHO you need to concentrate on building the core "platform" and a powerful API (like MS did with SimConnect) which will enable 3rd parties to enhance your platform.

[Mikethebike]

I know OpenGL made advances over the last few years (months actually), but we are going for the much larger and more stable platform and will be using DX11. For all the same reasons as many games developers are making the same decision.

If you would say because we don't want any extra work ok, but saying DX to be more stable is silly. Myself I'll be more than happy to ditch Vista as soon as possible. Look here at my current problem:
http://www.vistax64.com/software/250300-net-framework.html

Activison didn't support Linux/Mac with Wolfenstein 2 because of the extra work. Even though the game engine they used would have made such possible. But such approach also shows in the game. Even with the newer engine, the game is less fun than Wolfenstein.