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Manhattan X update


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Just to inform everybody that we are working on an update for Manhattan X based on the comments from users.

The new version does not only solve all issues we know (including full DX10 compatibility) it also increases framerates. This was possible because we removed even more polygons that are not seen unless you try to land in impossible locations and because a portion of the bumpmaps were removed. This was a discussion issue for a while in our office but the bumpmaps were not useful unless you got so close to buildings that windows would start to break. Image attached showing a location over Central Park with scenery AND autogen density at Extremely Dense at 47 fps. Also attached an image of the other settings. The next person who tells me FSX is slow will need to eat these images.

This update is expected to be available on Friday and will be the base for the boxed version that will be available soon.

post-43-1233774670_thumb.jpg

post-43-1233774694_thumb.jpg

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Mathijs,

Do you know what issues I would run into if I install Manhattan X in FSX without FS SP2? I have installed and uninstalled Accelerator a number of times because it causes scenery issuse for me. I get the dreaded scenery spikes in a few dense areas and have scenery where I should have water as well. Michigan stretches to the shores of Chicago and the water around Orka's Island in Washington is full of scenery.

I would love to add Manhattan X to my flying pleasure.

Thanks,

Jim Wight

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Mathijs,

Do you know what issues I would run into if I install Manhattan X in FSX without FS SP2? I have installed and uninstalled Accelerator a number of times because it causes scenery issuse for me. I get the dreaded scenery spikes in a few dense areas and have scenery where I should have water as well. Michigan stretches to the shores of Chicago and the water around Orka's Island in Washington is full of scenery.

I would love to add Manhattan X to my flying pleasure.

Thanks,

Jim Wight

The scenery is full SP2 compatible (as well as fully compatible with FSX Acceleration). The scenery spikes are caused by standard FSX traffic but only seen when FSX is overloaded, just reduce the traffic levels a bit and it should go away.

I got no ideas on the land where water should be issue, Manhattan scenery does not extend beyond the river banks on both sides and it's hard to see how it could cause problems so far away. I did just check myself and can not recreate the issue on my three test systems.

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Just to inform everybody that we are working on an update for Manhattan X based on the comments from users.

The new version does not only solve all issues we know (including full DX10 compatibility) it also increases framerates. This was possible because we removed even more polygons that are not seen unless you try to land in impossible locations and because a portion of the bumpmaps were removed. This was a discussion issue for a while in our office but the bumpmaps were not useful unless you got so close to buildings that windows would start to break. Image attached showing a location over Central Park with scenery AND autogen density at Extremely Dense at 47 fps. Also attached an image of the other settings. The next person who tells me FSX is slow will need to eat these images.

This update is expected to be available on Friday and will be the base for the boxed version that will be available soon.

Hi Mathijs

Looking forward to the update - I sure hope it helps me!

My system is not cutting edge, but not bad either. Core Duo 2.8, 4GB RAM, 8800GTS 320MB, WinXP.

I get 10-15fps over Manhattan, dropping to single figures occasionally. (Using the recommended settings).

But scenery detail is terrible; blurred buildings and terrain. Menu text is blurred and after 10-15 mins of flying (in the FSX Microlight) I get a CTD with the FSX is out of memory error.

Reducing autogen, screen resolution, inactivating UTX has no effect. I use Endall to close all unnecessary programs before running FSX also.

I know the bottleneck is likely to be my graphics card, but would an increase to 512MB GPU memory really improve things to the level apparent in your screenshots?

Maybe I should wait for Win 7!

Hendrik

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Mr. Mathijs Kok,

Just to inform everybody that we are working on an update for Manhattan X based on the comments from users.

The new version does not only solve all issues we know (including full DX10 compatibility) it also increases framerates. This was possible because we removed even more polygons that are not seen unless you try to land in impossible locations and because a portion of the bumpmaps were removed.... but the bumpmaps were not useful unless you got so close to buildings that windows would start to break. ....

This update is expected to be available on Friday and will be the base for the boxed version that will be available soon.

I'm glad to see you've resolved all these issues (and in such a short time). But, I don't understand what you mean by this statement:
"but the bumpmaps were not useful unless you got so close to buildings that windows would start to break."

1. Does this mean that you've decreased the "LEVEL of DETAIL" close to the buildings?

2. If so, was it done solely for the purpose of FPS?

3. Can you post another two Screenshots with all your FSX Settings to MAX (Sliders to the right) along with the FPS results?

(I ask for this because that is how I prefer to have my FSX settings, when I use all your products, and because I don't want to see issues like these with the Tahiti X v1.02 and come nag you all for updates/fixes. I get tired of doing that and I'm sure you all get tired of me asking too. PLEASE UNDERSTAND I'M NOT LOOKING FOR PERFECTION; JUST A SOLUTION. Thank you for understanding).

....I got no ideas on the land where water should be issue, Manhattan scenery does not extend beyond the river banks on both sides and it's hard to see how it could cause problems so far away....

May I make a suggestion: There are issues with a product line from ORBX FTX AU Regions (especially when combined with Flight1's UTX) which adversely affects coastlines and water in other parts (regions) of the FSX World. I've posted HERE about this issue; Although, in this example there was a solution to my specific problem, the issue still exists, for other regions of the FSX world, for ALL users of Orbx's FTX product lines. They also indicate that in their product Manuals/Forums and show "work arounds." Moreover, I'm not sure for an specific user (i.e. for Mr. Jim Wight's post) or scenery package; but, If users are using FTX and/or UTX together then these issues may become visibly instantly. I ONLY know how to resolve these by ...

1. Placing Manhattan X (and Flight1's UTX) at a HIGHER priority in the FSX Scenery Library than ANY ORBX FTX AU product.

2. DE-ACTIVATING and then RE-ACTIVATING all the WATER and COASTLINE Textures in Flight1's UTX Configurator Tool (ie. re-install all the textures).

That has resolved many issues between these products and other addon sceneries, for me, and is also the suggested guidelines by their developers.

Thank you for your attention.

PS: Looking forward to including Manhattan X v1.xx (Updated) into my FSX. :)

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  • May I make a suggestion: There are issues with a product line from ORBX FTX AU Regions (especially when combined with Flight1's UTX) which adversely affects coastlines and water in other parts (regions) of the FSX World. I've posted HERE about this issue; Although, in this example there was a solution to my specific problem, the issue still exists, for other regions of the FSX world, for ALL users of Orbx's FTX product lines. They also indicate that in their product Manuals/Forums and show "work arounds." Moreover, I'm not sure for an specific user (i.e. for Mr. Jim Wight's post) or scenery package; but, If users are using FTX and/or UTX together then these issues may become visibly instantly. I ONLY know how to resolve these by ...1. Placing Manhattan X (and Flight1's UTX) at a HIGHER priority in the FSX Scenery Library than ANY ORBX FTX AU product.

    2. DE-ACTIVATING and then RE-ACTIVATING all the WATER and COASTLINE Textures in Flight1's UTX Configurator Tool (ie. re-install all the textures).

That has resolved many issues between these products and other addon sceneries, for me, and is also the suggested guidelines by their developers.

Thank you for your attention.

PS: Looking forward to including Manhattan X v1.xx (Updated) into my FSX. :)

James,

The issue you refer to about the coastline dissapearing and having land where there should be water is well known and is caused by FTX mode.

It is caused by modifying the 'terrain.cfg'. Both UTX and FTX need to modify this file. UTX does this the best way by actually adding its entries to the existing terrain.cfg.

Unfortunately the FTX devs decided to go down the path of actually replacing the existing file with their own. This of course means any entries required by other scenery packages will not be in the FTX 'terrain.cfg' which causes this issue and many others.

This is one of the main reasons why you must switch off FTX mode when you install scenery packages. If you do not and the scenery package needs to add any entries to the terrain.cfg, then it will edit the FTX custom terrain.cfg not the standard one.

This can get quite confusing as you have two terrain.cfgs flying about.

There is a work around for UTX to get it working with FTX mode on. When you run any of the UTX setup tools, they check the currently active terrain.cfg and if the required entries are not there they will add them. So to get UTX coastlines working with FTX simply run a UTX setup tool with FTX mode switched on. This must be done EVERY time you update or install an FTX package as they tend to replace the terrain.cfg (without warning you first!)

You DO NOT need to deactivate or reactivate any thing in UTX. Simply running the setup tool is enough.

OrbX have anounced that they will remove FTX mode and start using the system that UTX already uses for the terrian.cfg (why they couldn't do this at the start since their installer already adds entries to the scenery.cfg without any probs, I don't know)

BACK ON TOPIC---

Really looking forward to this update. Any extra performance you can give us will be well recieved!

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Bonjour à tous,

Each time i try Manhattan, i receive the following well-known message: LACK OF MEMORY :angry:

I have done a lot of tries under Vista with : DXC10 or DXC9 , modifiying the parameters .....

the message is always there!

Is this problem already referenced for Manhattan x ?

The to-morrow update would it solve this bug ?

Thanks for your help.

Intel quad core 2,4...Ram 4 Go 8800GTX

For the moment Manhattan is the only scenery which cause this type of pb on my computer !

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Bonjour à tous,

Each time i try Manhattan, i receive the following well-known message: LACK OF MEMORY :angry:

I have done a lot of tries under Vista with : DXC10 or DXC9 , modifiying the parameters .....

the message is always there!

Is this problem already referenced for Manhattan x ?

The to-morrow update would it solve this bug ?

Thanks for your help.

Intel quad core 2,4...Ram 4 Go 8800GTX

For the moment Manhattan is the only scenery which cause this type of pb on my computer !

I sympathise! (See my post above).

At least I manage to get some time flying before I get the out of memory message and FSX crash.

You seem to have a better system than mine, and if your 8800GTX has 512MB memory, then upgrading my 8800GTS 312MB isn't doing to help....

Lets hope the update helps and we get some response from the Admins....

Hendrik

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I always had trouble with OOM errors using VFR London until I did this:

Remove the 'bufferpools' mod from the fsx.cfg. (or reduce it)

Pushing this too high causes OOM errors.

Also try the instructions in this thread by Nick Needham about increasing the memory usage in Vista (about half way through):

http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=29041

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Hello Mathijs,

Just my two cent's worth. I am enjoying ManhattanX, very nice product, but I am also having problems with framerates. I get about 15 FPS with a system that includes an E8500 processor, GTX-280, 4GB memory, Windows XP SP3, and an EVGA 780i SLI motherboard. I have tried the recommended settings, and even tried to reduce those settings. No matter what settings I try or disable, the framerate stays right around 15.

But, I am having another problem that I have not seen documented here. I cannot use my second monitor with ManhattanX. I have tried different resolutions and refresh rates, and still get a second screen with only gray blocks for buildings. It seems that the second monitor tries to draw the screen, then gets hung up on the gray blocks. I can use the second monitor for AFCS panels when flying the Seahawk/Jayhawk, with no problem. I have many Aerosoft add-ons, and have never had a problem with using both monitors.

Has anyone else had this problem with ManhattanX?

Am looking forward to the update.

Thank you,

Howard

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Hello Mathijs,

Just my two cent's worth. I am enjoying ManhattanX, very nice product, but I am also having problems with framerates. I get about 15 FPS with a system that includes an E8500 processor, GTX-280, 4GB memory, Windows XP SP3, and an EVGA 780i SLI motherboard. I have tried the recommended settings, and even tried to reduce those settings. No matter what settings I try or disable, the framerate stays right around 15.

But, I am having another problem that I have not seen documented here. I cannot use my second monitor with ManhattanX. I have tried different resolutions and refresh rates, and still get a second screen with only gray blocks for buildings. It seems that the second monitor tries to draw the screen, then gets hung up on the gray blocks. I can use the second monitor for AFCS panels when flying the Seahawk/Jayhawk, with no problem. I have many Aerosoft add-ons, and have never had a problem with using both monitors.

Has anyone else had this problem with ManhattanX?

Am looking forward to the update.

Thank you,

Howard

I am using dual monitors and haven't noticed any problem. I am running an AMD X2 2.66 processor with a junk mobo, 4 gig ram, Nvidia 8800 GT and get around 15-20 fps in NYC

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Many thanks to you, hendrik47 and pwheeler.

I've found a good answer in the Nick Needham's post indicated by pwheeler concerning the tuning of the virtual memory.

No more memory OOM pb with Manhattan.

I'm waiting for the update ...because the FPS are very low for the moment !!! between 6 and 8 above the Manhattan Island.

But,the night view around Manhattan Island is really beautiful.

manhattanxkg9.jpg

Mille mercis to the authors !

Many thanks for your help.

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Many thanks to you, hendrik47 and pwheeler.

I've found a good answer in the Nick Needham's post indicated by pwheeler concerning the tuning of the virtual memory.

No more memory OOM pb with Manhattan.

I'm waiting for the update ...because the FPS are very low for the moment !!! between 6 and 8 above the Manhattan Island.

But,the night view around Manhattan Island is really beautiful.

manhattanxkg9.jpg

Mille mercis to the authors !

Many thanks for your help.

Huge improvement with this update on my system. Very nice scenery Aerosoft!

David

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Just to inform everybody that we are working on an update for Manhattan X based on the comments from users.

The new version does not only solve all issues we know (including full DX10 compatibility) it also increases framerates. This was possible because we removed even more polygons that are not seen unless you try to land in impossible locations and because a portion of the bumpmaps were removed. This was a discussion issue for a while in our office but the bumpmaps were not useful unless you got so close to buildings that windows would start to break. Image attached showing a location over Central Park with scenery AND autogen density at Extremely Dense at 47 fps. Also attached an image of the other settings. The next person who tells me FSX is slow will need to eat these images.

This update is expected to be available on Friday and will be the base for the boxed version that will be available soon.

1. First impressions - update has definitely improved my flight experience:

2. Maybe a 5fps improvement, but flight seems smoother.

3. No OOM errors so far although I also included the bufferpools fix (remove from fsx.cfg) mentioned in this thread.

4. Central Park looks a bit more realistic - I'm seeing some autogen trees!

5. Some buildings have a sharper look, but some landmarks (eg Chrysler building and Empire State) are still blurred.

6. Terrain is still blurred in comparison to many of the screenshots here.

I am also running UTX, GEX and Megascenery Earth's photorealistic New York. Is this wise?? Could I improve things by removing one or all of these scenery enhancements?

Any advice for 5. and 6. much appreciated!

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Hi,

Few words regarding your problems and observations:

> 2. Maybe a 5fps improvement, but flight seems smoother.

If it is so than it's 20% on most systems, not bad at all...

(With my settings I use for design, I still get more frames in the new scenery than with the default).

> 4. Central Park looks a bit more realistic - I'm seeing some autogen trees!

Nothing chanhed there, so there was probably a memory problem with your OS with the first release.

> 5. Some buildings have a sharper look, but some landmarks (eg Chrysler building and Empire State) are still blurred.

Nothing I can do there. It means your system is not capable to load the highest res mip-maps.

> 6. Terrain is still blurred in comparison to many of the screenshots here.

See above, same issue with full-res mip-maps not loaded because of memory.

best regards

Andras

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There's an improvement on my system, but not what i'd hoped for: My frame rates are up by about 3-4, and there's a slight improvement with 'the jitters'.

However, now much of Manhatton is now 'floating' a few feet above the ground! What's that all about then?

post-15400-1233956797_thumb.jpg

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Mr. Paul Wheeler,

...The issue you refer to about the coastline dissapearing and having land where there should be water is well known and is caused by FTX mode....you have two terrain.cfgs....

Thank you for this info. It really helps to know way so that you can make wise decisions when troubleshooting. These issues are resolved in as far as can be done with every install/update from ORBX. I still have many more of their products to buy and install so, I'm sure that I'll run into these issue again and, thanks to your help and others at ORBX, I'll be able to resolve it more quickly this time around.

OrbX have anounced that they will remove FTX mode and start using the system that UTX already uses for the terrian.cfg (why they couldn't do this at the start since their installer already adds entries to the scenery.cfg without any probs, I don't know)

Well, better late then never. ;)

....Remove the 'bufferpools' mod from the fsx.cfg. (or reduce it)

.... Also try the instructions in this thread by Nick Needham about increasing the memory usage in Vista (about half way through):

http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=29041

This was great information to have; Thank you very much! B)

PS: When do you plan on releasing the FSWC+?

========================================

Mr. Andras,

Thank you for all your hard work and, of course, the update for Manhattan X. ;)

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Hi,

Few words regarding your problems and observations:

> 2. Maybe a 5fps improvement, but flight seems smoother.

If it is so than it's 20% on most systems, not bad at all...

(With my settings I use for design, I still get more frames in the new scenery than with the default).

> 4. Central Park looks a bit more realistic - I'm seeing some autogen trees!

Nothing chanhed there, so there was probably a memory problem with your OS with the first release.

> 5. Some buildings have a sharper look, but some landmarks (eg Chrysler building and Empire State) are still blurred.

Nothing I can do there. It means your system is not capable to load the highest res mip-maps.

> 6. Terrain is still blurred in comparison to many of the screenshots here.

See above, same issue with full-res mip-maps not loaded because of memory.

best regards

Andras

Thanks for the observations: On 5 and 6 you mean GPU memory? My 8800GTS 320MB is below recommended specs - but is there any guarantee that upgrading to a 512MB or higher memory GTX would improve things? I have the same problems with VFR London, but despite extensive research I've never come across any advice to suggest a minor upgrade of video memory would help! (In fact there are many reports of an NVidia 280 not improving things either!)

Regards - Hendrik

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Thanks for the two contributions to my problem/question. I have now got FS Accelerator/SP2 working properly by cleaning up UT and unistalling and re-installing Victoria+. I will also drop AI if I start to see scenery spikes. Once the update to Manhattan X is out I will have to give it a shot.

Thanks again,

Jim

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Thanks for the observations: On 5 and 6 you mean GPU memory? My 8800GTS 320MB is below recommended specs - but is there any guarantee that upgrading to a 512MB or higher memory GTX would improve things? I have the same problems with VFR London, but despite extensive research I've never come across any advice to suggest a minor upgrade of video memory would help! (In fact there are many reports of an NVidia 280 not improving things either!)

Regards - Hendrik

Mr. Hendrik47,

The GPU helps a lot; but, with FSX, the REAL solution is an upgrade in the CPU/Motherboard combination + the right memory. This is really what makes a difference.

Good Luck with your purchasing decisions! ;)

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Mr. Hendrik47,

The GPU helps a lot; but, with FSX, the REAL solution is an upgrade in the CPU/Motherboard combination + the right memory. This is really what makes a difference.

Good Luck with your purchasing decisions! ;)

See my earlier post - Core Duo 2.8, 12 month old gigabyte Mobo, 4GB RAM. Not cutting edge but not bad. I know my GPU is being stressed; what I need to know is whether upping the GPU memory will help load high res mipmaps....

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(In fact there are many reports of an NVidia 280 not improving things either!)

Regards - Hendrik

In my experience, the 8800 compared to the 280 is like this:

Say you have a 20 inch chainsaw (8800) and you pay $300 more to get a 26 inch chainsaw. Yeah, you can cut smaller trees faster (other games), and it sounds like it's a lot better, but when you go to cut that big oak tree (FSX), you're still gonna be there all day, and that extra 6 inches really won't make much difference, except in your wallet.

lol....

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