44 replies to this topic

[Mathijs Kok]

The radar is perhaps one of the most complex bits of this product and things like Aspect Angle etc are not easy to fully comprehend. If you got any comments or questions posts them here and we'll try to help out But please note the current radar is already a tour de force. it can be tweaked but making it more realistic is not really an option.

This topic is closed until release.

[pauldgardner]

Hi Mathijs,

I am overwhelmed by the new F-16, what a stunning aircraft !! Congratulations to all the team for their hard work and expertise!!

Is this the right place to ask for more intructions on how to target a specific aircraft?

I have tried to do this on the LH MFD but I don't understand how you select one out of several contacts.

Also the manual suggest changing from normal HUD to intercept HUD. I seem to have missed finding how to do this.

Cheers

Paul

[saprintz]

Hi Mathijs,

I am overwhelmed by the new F-16, what a stunning aircraft !! Congratulations to all the team for their hard work and expertise!!

Is this the right place to ask for more intructions on how to target a specific aircraft?

I have tried to do this on the LH MFD but I don't understand how you select one out of several contacts.

Also the manual suggest changing from normal HUD to intercept HUD. I seem to have missed finding how to do this.

Cheers

Paul

Paul:

The transition from the main HUD to Intercept HUD is done automatically once a target is locked up. You can tell a target is locked because it will turn red on the left MFD, and its altitude, also in red and in thousands of ft., will appear near it. (Altitude remains red; the aircraft radar return blip turns back to green after about 10 seconds.)

Selecting one out of several contacts is, admittedly, a little frustrating. The only way to do it is to keep cycling through the list of nearby AI aircraft, which is usually 10 planes long, until the one you want is locked up... which means it'll turn red, have the red altitude readout, and have a line of text information along the top of the MFD (aspect angle, target heading, target ground speed, closing speed).

Hope this helps.

[nidr]

about the radar, i'm able to succesfull get a aitraffic in green but locking doesn't work. When i'm getting close there's no square no assiment that point to a automatic lock and when i'm very close, just at the moment of intercept signal disapere. any suggestions?

regards
nick

[saprintz]

about the radar, i'm able to succesfull get a aitraffic in green but locking doesn't work. When i'm getting close there's no square no assiment that point to a automatic lock and when i'm very close, just at the moment of intercept signal disapere. any suggestions?

regards
nick

Nick:
Usually you have to press on the "cycle targets" click area to lock a target, often several times in a row, until the stored list comes around to the plane you want. This cycle targets click area is in the upper right hand corner of the left MFD. Yes, the radar will pick up targets automatically, but it is not always the AI plane you'd want or expect. This has less to do with the way the gauge is programmed and more to do with the way FSX handles its internal AI traffic routines.

Scott

[pauldgardner]

Nick:
Usually you have to press on the "cycle targets" click area to lock a target, often several times in a row, until the stored list comes around to the plane you want. This cycle targets click area is in the upper right hand corner of the left MFD. Yes, the radar will pick up targets automatically, but it is not always the AI plane you'd want or expect. This has less to do with the way the gauge is programmed and more to do with the way FSX handles its internal AI traffic routines.

Scott

I thought I had targetting sorted last night, but tonight I am having problems. I find I can cycle the targets and one after another, sometimes rather slowly, one will turn red.
As you say it shows red for a few seconds but does not lock. Do I need to click the centre top area of the MFD screen to get a lock?
If not, I am unsure what this click area does. The manual suggests that the centre top area of the MFD and the upper side right click areas do the same thing.

Any thoughts or advice please?

Paul

[saprintz]

I thought I had targetting sorted last night, but tonight I am having problems. I find I can cycle the targets and one after another, sometimes rather slowly, one will turn red.
As you say it shows red for a few seconds but does not lock. Do I need to click the centre top area of the MFD screen to get a lock?
If not, I am unsure what this click area does. The manual suggests that the centre top area of the MFD and the upper side right click areas do the same thing.

Any thoughts or advice please?

Paul

Paul:

A target turning red, as you seem to have discovered, does not mean it is necessarily "locked." An AI aircraft will only TRULY lock (with the corresponding MFD and HUD info and displays) if it's within certain parameters: within 60 degrees left and 60 degrees right in azimuth, and 60 degrees up and down (pitch stabilized) in the vertical. It must also be under 20 miles. (To limit list size.) So being red is not enough... look for red AND a red altitude display (in thousands) near the radar return. This way you know who's locked up. (BTW, the colors of the radar targets will probably be changing. White instead of green, which my newest sources tell me is most realistic, with the locked target being yellow....)

As to the two mouse areas at the top of the MFD glass, the one at the top right cycles through all the aircraft in FSX's list of nearby AI aircraft. You need to keep clicking this button until the red (plus red altitude) is over the target you want. The top CENTER mouse area is to basically turn radar locking on and off. The radar WILL automatically lock onto planes, and sometimes you may not want it to. So this click area allows you to tell the radar to not lock anything. I'm going to add something to the MFD to let you know when this is either on or off, something I thought I did last minute, but apparently not. I think a big X in the top right will be used.

Let me know if you have any more questions.


Scott

[pauldgardner]

Paul:

A target turning red, as you seem to have discovered, does not mean it is necessarily "locked." An AI aircraft will only TRULY lock (with the corresponding MFD and HUD info and displays) if it's within certain parameters: within 60 degrees left and 60 degrees right in azimuth, and 60 degrees up and down (pitch stabilized) in the vertical. It must also be under 20 miles. (To limit list size.) So being red is not enough... look for red AND a red altitude display (in thousands) near the radar return. This way you know who's locked up. (BTW, the colors of the radar targets will probably be changing. White instead of green, which my newest sources tell me is most realistic, with the locked target being yellow....)

As to the two mouse areas at the top of the MFD glass, the one at the top right cycles through all the aircraft in FSX's list of nearby AI aircraft. You need to keep clicking this button until the red (plus red altitude) is over the target you want. The top CENTER mouse area is to basically turn radar locking on and off. The radar WILL automatically lock onto planes, and sometimes you may not want it to. So this click area allows you to tell the radar to not lock anything. I'm going to add something to the MFD to let you know when this is either on or off, something I thought I did last minute, but apparently not. I think a big X in the top right will be used.

Let me know if you have any more questions.


Scott

Thanks Scott.

That information clears up a lot that I did not understand. Is there any reason that buttons around screen of the MFD were not used instead of the click areas? There is something comforting about seeing the button move in and out to let you know that your input has been recognised.

No doubt you have had it pointed out that the range click points on the LH MFD are the green up and down arrows, but on the RH MFD the side buttons are used. For the sake of commonality it would be nice if the same convention was used on both MFDs.

Having said all that I think you have done a superb job with this aircraft and I am finding new pleasure flying the F-16 with every flight.

Paul

[saprintz]

Thanks Scott.

That information clears up a lot that I did not understand. Is there any reason that buttons around screen of the MFD were not used instead of the click areas? There is something comforting about seeing the button move in and out to let you know that your input has been recognised.

No doubt you have had it pointed out that the range click points on the LH MFD are the green up and down arrows, but on the RH MFD the side buttons are used. For the sake of commonality it would be nice if the same convention was used on both MFDs.

Having said all that I think you have done a superb job with this aircraft and I am finding new pleasure flying the F-16 with every flight.

Paul

Hi Paul, and thanks. The problem is that we wanted to avoid using the buttons that were slightly hidden by the UFC console. These are the right hand buttons on the left MFD and lefthand buttons on the right MFD. They're no problem for TrackIR people, but may be for other who have to use CTRL and ALT and ENTER, etc. And then one click area (top center of LMFD) was a last second addition. So it had to be put in as part of the gauge, and not part of the model.

Yes, the plan is to straighten all of this out for the service pack. ;-)


Scott

[dswo]

Some basic questions about the display:

1. What is the moving bar with a cross in the center?
2. Are we looking down, from above, or forward, in the direction of flight?
3. What is "overtake speed"?

[saprintz]

Some basic questions about the display:

1. What is the moving bar with a cross in the center?
2. Are we looking down, from above, or forward, in the direction of flight?
3. What is "overtake speed"?

Hi. To answer your questions:

* The moving bar with the cross in the center is an attitude indicator, with the cross representing the longitudinal axis.

* The radar is top down. The nose of your aircraft is at the top of the tallest white radar scan bar, just above the "FCR" text.

* Overtake speed is closing speed... the speed at which you're approaching the target. A negative number means the target's getting farther from you; a positive number means you're getting closer to it.

[Leonard Hjalmarson]

Would it be possible.. maybe using SIMCONNECT.. to be able to configure a key press to lock and cycle targets?

This more advanced HUD opens up some interesting possibilities for mission builders..

* as soon as you move from TWS to STT mode the bandit is going to know you are there..
* when you are in defensive mode you have to remain aware of your AOT relative to the type of tracking radar in order to break lock



Hmm.. I think we are going to need some effects for chaff and flares.

I wonder how hard it would be to model a basic TEWS in the cockpit?

[dswo]

I had trouble correlating what I saw on the target radar with what I saw on the moving map; the same objects were visible, but the perspectives were different. This excerpt from the Microprose Falcon 4.0 manual (1998) set me straight. The keyword is "B-scope." You can download the rest of the 579-page manual here: http://www.f-16.net/..._f4manuals.html.

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[warbird861]

In what unit does the radar show the target's speed?

[JamesChams]

Mr. Mathijs Kok / Staff/Developers,

How do you select a target to lock it?

[saprintz]

Mr. Mathijs Kok / Staff/Developers,

How do you select a target to lock it?

James,
Keep clicking on "Lock Target," which is engaged by clicking either the top right zone of the left MFD, or the actual MFD button right near there.

It's important to know what each click of "Lock Target" is actually doing. When the sim and then gauge loads, we tell FSX to go ahead, compile your list of the "best" AI aircraft that are nearby. We can tell it not to include more than 12 aircraft on that list, or not more than 30, but what we cannot do is tell it things like "only include planes in front of me in the list," or "only include planes that are flying faster than 250 knots in the list." What does go into THE LIST is decided on by FSX, and the list is very picky about how it will or won't allow itself to be read, modified, or manipulated. THE LIST has power. (Remember the first day of the F-16's release, when some people were having CTD's with some accidentally used versions of the left MFD? Yep, thank THE LIST.)

So we minimalize tampering with THE LIST. She even behaves differently between Acceleration and SP2. So we apply conditions between the list and the gauges, determining what our radar can do or will seem to, based on the list's settings and state, but controlling what goes into the list... shaky ground.

So, we've got THE LIST, containing 12 planes. Each click of "Lock Target" is simply 1 cycle of the 12 cycles needed to scroll all the way around to the front of the list again. For each click, FSX proceeds 1 plane down. USUALLY, the aircraft closest to and in front of you are among the first in the list, meaning you'll only have to click a few times. Sometimes you'll have to click more, yes. But if you have to click more than 12 times and none of the planes lock up or begin to, the problem is somewhere else. Probably a simple oversight.

Bottom line: chances are you're going to have to click more than once before you arrive at your desired target. So... keep clicking!

[saprintz]

In what unit does the radar show the target's speed?

Knots. But I believe it currently shows the target's ground speed, not airspeed.

Scott

[JamesChams]

Mr. Scott 'saprintz',

Thank you for all this information; you should have definitely included it in the manual; maybe in the next SP.
Now that I have an understanding of the functionality of the "Lock Target", I'll go play with it... Thanks.

Also, another question; where is the ICAO for the FALCON X folder/scenery installed in the scenery library by v1.10?

BTW: Thanks for fixing almost all the things on my posted "Bug's List" and adding a few other great requested items like AI F-16's and Missions.

[saprintz]

Would it be possible.. maybe using SIMCONNECT.. to be able to configure a key press to lock and cycle targets?

This more advanced HUD opens up some interesting possibilities for mission builders..

* as soon as you move from TWS to STT mode the bandit is going to know you are there..
* when you are in defensive mode you have to remain aware of your AOT relative to the type of tracking radar in order to break lock



Hmm.. I think we are going to need some effects for chaff and flares.

I wonder how hard it would be to model a basic TEWS in the cockpit?

Leonard,
I don't know how I didn't catch this post before but I've just now seen it. Yes, it's possible to set up the target lock so that it's done by a key-press instead of mouse-click. Feel free to e-mail me about this if needed. saprintz is my name, gmail dot com is my domain


Scott

[mangold]

Guten Tag
is it possible to to see online traffic (IVAO or VATSIM) with f16 radar ?
Günter

[Finn]

Guten Tag
is it possible to to see online traffic (IVAO or VATSIM) with f16 radar ?
Günter

Though I haven´t tried myself, I´m almost 99% certain that online traffic will show up too.

Finn

[mangold]

Though I haven´t tried myself, I´m almost 99% certain that online traffic will show up too.

Finn

Guten Tag Finn,
I am also convienced the aerosoft f16 is an excellent piece of software - radar included.
However to turn your 99% guess into a 100% statement could give you a hard time.
In case you have an IVAO account could you be so kind and do a test if the radar can "see" online traffic.
Two fellows of mine owning the new f16 v1.10 had no success in seeing online traffic 10 to 20nm dead ahead (being aware of the radar click zones)
Standing by for your findings.
Günter - IVAO online fan

[proflyer.be]

hello all,

i have a big problem...
i just dont see anything on the radarscreen.......

can someone help me?


regards,
Quinten

[saprintz]

hello all,

i have a big problem...
i just dont see anything on the radarscreen.......

can someone help me?


regards,
Quinten

Hi Quinten. Do you mean that the whole MFD screen is black, or that there's just traffic showing up? Is it both MFD's, or only one side? You have them powered up (switches at right rear of the cockpit) and still nothing?

[proflyer.be]

Hi Quinten. Do you mean that the whole MFD screen is black, or that there's just traffic showing up? Is it both MFD's, or only one side? You have them powered up (switches at right rear of the cockpit) and still nothing?

both mfd's are black
also when it put them on

[saprintz]

both mfd's are black
also when it put them on

I think there must be some kind of general power problem or something, or maybe something with the startup options or the default flight. Is everything else on, avionics-wise? HUD? I would first try to "reset" the default flight as the ultralight over Friday Harbor, and try flying from the main screen, as opposed to starting directly from a saved flight. Flights can easily be saved with some invisible options being the way you definitely DO NOT want them. (Has confounded me more than once!!) I always now keep the default flight as the default flight -- everything's in a "neutral" position with it, AFAIK. Then I change planes, locations, etc.

[proflyer.be]

I think there must be some kind of general power problem or something, or maybe something with the startup options or the default flight. Is everything else on, avionics-wise? HUD? I would first try to "reset" the default flight as the ultralight over Friday Harbor, and try flying from the main screen, as opposed to starting directly from a saved flight. Flights can easily be saved with some invisible options being the way you definitely DO NOT want them. (Has confounded me more than once!!) I always now keep the default flight as the default flight -- everything's in a "neutral" position with it, AFAIK. Then I change planes, locations, etc.

The HUD works, everyting else also. But what do you mean with reset the flight. Do you mean i first need to fligh from with the default startup of FSX?

Couldn't it be a problem with the gauges?

[proflyer.be]

The HUD works, everyting else also. But what do you mean with reset the flight. Do you mean i first need to fligh from with the default startup of FSX?

Couldn't it be a problem with the gauges?

OK it works now

[saprintz]

OK it works now

Great!

By the way, you can make any flight the default flight by going to the "Load Flight" option in the Flight options menu, then select the flight you want to be the default one, then mark the check box down below that says "Make this the default flight." Not only will that now be the startup flight, but many of the defaults / options / states associated with it will become default too. Most notoriously, things like view defaults are changed -- zooms, angles, etc., sometimes even over-riding the cameras.cfg. It can be frustratingly confusing!!

Scott

[proflyer.be]

thanks scott

[Barel]

Would it be possible.. maybe using SIMCONNECT.. to be able to configure a key press to lock and cycle targets?

This more advanced HUD opens up some interesting possibilities for mission builders..

* as soon as you move from TWS to STT mode the bandit is going to know you are there..
* when you are in defensive mode you have to remain aware of your AOT relative to the type of tracking radar in order to break lock



Hmm.. I think we are going to need some effects for chaff and flares.

I wonder how hard it would be to model a basic TEWS in the cockpit?

hm....my radar doesn't look like shown in the picture . how do I get to this function?

[Horten229]

hm....my radar doesn't look like shown in the picture . how do I get to this function?

Looks like a picture from Falcon 4.

Some of the button stuff is discussed in the thread on HOTAS Target Management and is integrated with a B Scope style display like this in the modifications provided in AN/APG-68 Radar.

[benpilot]

Hey guys

i don't know whether this is the right place to ask this question, but you can delete the post if not

How can you get THE LIST on the radar - screen?

Ben

[Horten229]

Hey guys

i don't know whether this is the right place to ask this question, but you can delete the post if not

How can you get THE LIST on the radar - screen?

Ben

The list of what?

Having looked at the code, I think the answer is no. But I'm still curious what you are looking for.

[benpilot]

The list of what?

Having looked at the code, I think the answer is no. But I'm still curious what you are looking for.

Hey Horton

I'm looking for the list you can pick up planes from to lock ore something, or did I undestand something wrong?

Ben

[Horten229]

Hey Horton

I'm looking for the list you can pick up planes from to lock ore something, or did I undestand something wrong?

Ben

The short answer is you can't.

The slightly longer answer is you should be able to lock onto anything you can see on the radar page (that page is the list). However, the default radar just cycles through the internal list of AI planes allowing you to select ones you can't see (and giving it the appearance of not doing anything but they do turn blue on the Map page).

The long answer is the list is maintained by the ITrafficInfo function internally and actually changes dymamically (as planes come and go from AI traffic). But no one displays that list directly.

[benpilot]

The short answer is you can't.

The slightly longer answer is you should be able to lock onto anything you can see on the radar page (that page is the list). However, the default radar just cycles through the internal list of AI planes allowing you to select ones you can't see (and giving it the appearance of not doing anything but they do turn blue on the Map page).

The long answer is the list is maintained by the ITrafficInfo function internally and actually changes dymamically (as planes come and go from AI traffic). But no one displays that list directly.

Ok Thanks Horton, that's all I wanted to know

[Spartan 969]

Ok, this isnt really a question about the Radar screen, but the Radar Alt above Gnd, so wether it fits here i'm not sure. Anyway how do I set the HUD so it displays my Radar alt, all it will display is BARO and being at 2300ft on Edwards AFB doesn't seem right (although that is my alt above sea lvl), I have set the Sensor Radar Alt to the on position and the HUD control panel to ALT Radar and Auto and still in the HUD I have no Altitude, it sits at ,000 and on the warning lights RADAR ALT is lit telling me that there is a malfunction. How can I get the Radar alt to show?

[Geraki]

Any news any update screenshots?