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London Heathrow 2008 FS9 Memory problems


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47 replies to this topic

#1 Shermann

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 20:49

Hi Guys !!

Since i have installed the Heathrow scenery i am not able to end a flight in the london area. Departing from heathrow directed to other airport there is no problem if the flight is to Heathrow once i am near the lkondon area or sometimes near the airport or in final i have a memory error telling me to clean up the disk . Hoew can i solve the problem? Thnaks

Alfredo
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#2 Shaun Fletcher

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 15:43

Hello Alfredo,

Whats your System specs especially your OS.
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#3 Shermann

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 20:10

Hi !! My system Spec is Intel core 2 CPU 66002.40 GHz 2 GB RAm Nvidia GEforce 8800GTX Windows XP Sp 2. FS9.1..

I hiope i diodnt forget anything smile.gif

Thanks for ur answer

Alfredo
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#4 Shaun Fletcher

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 15:51

Hello Alfredo,

Does this only happen in and around London or can you replicate this problem elsewhere. Also have you any third party landclasses installed like Ultimate Terrain.
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#5 isidoro

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 16:26

Im experiencing the same
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#6 Playa 2k6

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 20:09

Hi,
i had today the same problem.
I was in the descent to Heathrow from Dubai and then came this (****) massage smile.gif

It was not sooooooo heavy because i had done a save in the descent out of my PMDG B744 but it is not so reality..


Regarts!
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#7 Shaun Fletcher

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 04:40

Hello Folks,

Please read this thread here, which will ultimately bring you back to this forum..
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#8 crash_continental

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 02:04

I have the same problems, but it seems to be 09L with the PMDG 744. I've tried everything to no avail, but would like to suggest it might be the newest PMDG AIRAC. Is this possible?

My specs;
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4)
nVidia 9800GX2
2G RAM

- daniel
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#9 Shaun Fletcher

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 15:45

Hello Daniel,

It may well be as it seems to affect this plane.
Can you try doing a circuit in the PMDG without using the PMDG FMC so as not to use its database and see if it goes okay.
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#10 crash_continental

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:59

Hi Shaun,

Did as you asked today and fly a circuit with no problem. I then entered in an EGLL-EGLL into the FMC flight plan to see if that worked. It did, but I'm not sure the FMC was fully engaged. Will try a short hop (LFPG-EGLL) in the near future to see if it still doesn't crash.

I also have (just before you answered my post) used some programs to clean up any landclass or possible stray AFCADs, which I know can be brutal for OOM. Had a few that might explain it, though still I must say it only crashed in the PMDG with EGLL.

BTW: FS9.1 with XP Pro, Ultimate Terrain Europe, UK2000 scenery and a host of others.
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#11 Shaun Fletcher

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 02:14

Hello Daniel,

It seems that this also happened to a German customer using the PMDG.
The folks at Aerosoft have been informed but If it is the PMDG then they will no doubt inform them.
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#12 crash_continental

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 03:30

Just flew from LFPG - EGLL no problems. Strange... Will keep testing.

- daniel
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#13 crash_continental

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 17:49

Another crash coming from KLAX to Heathrow in the PMDG 747. This time the source was 'unknown', which was not very helpful at all. I got on the ground this time, was just exiting the runway, when I used the hat to look right. Wham! CTD. At least it wasn't a OOM problem though.
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#14 crash_continental

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 14:33

I had suspected UT Europe of being a culprit so I removed it completely. I still had an OOM error when flying the PMDG 747-400 into Heathrow. Very, very discouraging... Just can't seem to complete a flight into Heathrow 2008 with the PMDG 747!

What's my next step? I suppose removing Heathrow 2008, sadly...

It always seems to happen when I fly the BNN1D SID into 09L (with the 'without radar control' chart; Jeppesen 10-2G, 18-NOV-05)=

Co-ordinates: BNN, BNN180/5, LAM268/30, LAM268/34, GWC001/39, IAF 09L.

Probably doesn't help, but a shot in the dark...
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#15 altstiff

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 19:59

The OOM errors have nothing to do with how much RAM you have.

FSX Developer Phil Taylor explain how RAM works in a windows environment in this thread.


http://blogs.msdn.co...ress-space.aspx

When you use complex airplanes and complex scenery, lumped in with Active Sky running and so on, your going to get OOM errors. It's a combination of using so much memory intensive add on. The way windows (more so XP) allocates the blocks will cause the error.

With that the 3GB "fix" has cured my OOM errors in FS9 (I don't fly FSX very much).

I have yet to have an OOM since flying with it......
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#16 crash_continental

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 13:13

Yeah, I've been looking at this for some time now. I wasn't sure if you HAD to have more than 2Gs to implement it or not. But I guess not. I'll give it a try (although I've read that there can be problems...)

What kind of surprises me is that I ran all these programs (with the exception of Heathrow 2008) on my P4 2.8Mhz, with 2G memory with no OOM errors for years, and now I'm having problems on my new rig. Seems crazy to me, but...

Thanks for the reply, I'll give it a go and report back.
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#17 altstiff

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 14:23

QUOTE (crash_continental @ May 12 2008, 07:13 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, I've been looking at this for some time now. I wasn't sure if you HAD to have more than 2Gs to implement it or not. But I guess not. I'll give it a try (although I've read that there can be problems...)

What kind of surprises me is that I ran all these programs (with the exception of Heathrow 2008) on my P4 2.8Mhz, with 2G memory with no OOM errors for years, and now I'm having problems on my new rig. Seems crazy to me, but...

Thanks for the reply, I'll give it a go and report back.


Just so you know Crash, the FSX team applied the fix to the FSX.exe in SP2. They are that confident it fixes most of the OOM problems. You would still need to edit your boot ini to have the fix work though.

Using Phil's suggestions I have come up with this formula:

4096 - 768 (needed for the system) - (your video card ram) = your "USERVA" number for your boot ini.

I would start with the default suggested value of 2560 and if you do find your having anomalies (some report slow loading textures) try different values in blocks of 64.
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#18 crash_continental

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 02:22

Well... one flight down, no problems. San Fran to Heathrow - which was a dead sure OOM before - worked flawlessly. My vid card has 1G so I applied your equation [4096 - 768 - 1024 = 2304]. Seems to work just fine. I'll keep testing.

If this works Aerosoft might want to include a utility for this fix that determines viability and calculates the numbers accordingly, and then applies the boot.ini rewrite. Then again, that could just be a huge can of worms...

Thanks altstiff for your help, I really appreciate it.
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#19 crash_continental

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 21:33

Last word on this for any who might be experiencing the same problems...

This has now fixed all my OOM errors. Thanks to all.

Hope this helps someone else...
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#20 Rafal Haczek

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 22:04

Bloody...
The time has finally come for me to fly PMDG 747-400 to Heathrow (Heathrow 2008) on my new machine.
While approaching RWY27L I heard 'bang!' and the FS9 froze. I minimized to Windows only to see the OOM error message.

I've flown other machines to EGLL before without problems (LVLD 763 and FT737).

I'm using FS9.1. Anyone there who used to have the problem but finally cured it for good?
Thanks in advance for any assistance. Would be nice to fly 747 to Heathrow without stress.

As for the mentioned 3GB fix (which I don't really understand) - is it the same which causes AES problems?
If so, I would never sacrifice AES for one scenery (EGLL).

Sorry if I mixed up things but looks like I'm new to the problem and a bit confused.

Best regards,
Rafal
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#21 altstiff

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 12:53

QUOTE (VORJAB @ Jun 26 2008, 17:04 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bloody...
The time has finally come for me to fly PMDG 747-400 to Heathrow (Heathrow 2008) on my new machine.
While approaching RWY27L I heard 'bang!' and the FS9 froze. I minimized to Windows only to see the OOM error message.

I've flown other machines to EGLL before without problems (LVLD 763 and FT737).

I'm using FS9.1. Anyone there who used to have the problem but finally cured it for good?
Thanks in advance for any assistance. Would be nice to fly 747 to Heathrow without stress.

As for the mentioned 3GB fix (which I don't really understand) - is it the same which causes AES problems?
If so, I would never sacrifice AES for one scenery (EGLL).

Sorry if I mixed up things but looks like I'm new to the problem and a bit confused.

Best regards,
Rafal


Rafal, this "fix" is the same one that causes errors in AES. The problem being that the modeuls AES uses can only call on memory from the original 2GB, if the memory needed for AES falls outside that your going to get the error.

I couldn't fly for more than an hour with out getting the OOM error so this 3GB fix is a must have for me. When you run Ultimate Terrain, add on texture packages (FE and GEP) then Active sky into a well done airport like EGLL in a complex PMDG type plane, it bogs the system.

Crash, glad you got it sorted wink.gif
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#22 Rafal Haczek

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 15:25

Thanks for your reply, altstiff!

Of course you're right saying that complex simulation is heavy and may cause problems.
However, since I bought my new PC I've made a lot of flights using all the addons you mentioned.
I had no OOM erros at all. I was mainly flying 767-300ER by Level-D, also from/to EGLL.
Also to other large hubs like EDDF, EHAM, LSZH, LFPG, LIMC, LOWW, EFHK, UUDD.

The strange fact is that, in the sense of fluency, Heathrow 2008 gives me better frames than EDDF or LFPG.
Two days ago I dusted off my 747-400 by PMDG and made a flight to Heathrow.... and bang!
Looks like the combination of the aircraft and the scenery. I'm wondering now which one to avoid in my next flights.

If the 3GB fix is the one interfering wth AES, I will omit it since this was my first case of OOM on the new rig.
Flying to non-AESed airports doesn't give me so much enjoyment unless there is no choice (read: no AES for them).

Best regards,
Rafal
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#23 Rafal Haczek

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 21:16

Just to report: I've now another FS9 termination.
This time however I was approaching not Heathrow but Frankfurt (MAF2008) after a short test flight from Tegel.
I was flying in PMDG 747-400 in VC (with TrackIR4). The black screen came on final approach with aerodrome already in sight.

That makes me wonder and want to ask you, pilots:
Did you experience the problem only with PMDG 747-400? And if so, was it in VC or also with the 2D panel?
And if also in other planes and airports - which ones for example?

Just like alstiff I'm surprised since I didn't suffer the problem on my older much weaker PC.

Sorry for asking but I would like to use others' experience if possible.
I see no fun in the perspective of making tens of test flights with possible OOMs. sad.gif

Thanks in advance if anyone drops a line.

Best regards,
Rafal
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#24 altstiff

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 23:03

QUOTE (VORJAB @ Jun 27 2008, 15:16 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just to report: I've now another FS9 termination.
This time however I was approaching not Heathrow but Frankfurt (MAF2008) after a short test flight from Tegel.
I was flying in PMDG 747-400 in VC (with TrackIR4). The black screen came on final approach with aerodrome already in sight.

That makes me wonder and want to ask you, pilots:
Did you experience the problem only with PMDG 747-400? And if so, was it in VC or also with the 2D panel?
And if also in other planes and airports - which ones for example?

Just like alstiff I'm surprised since I didn't suffer the problem on my older much weaker PC.

Sorry for asking but I would like to use others' experience if possible.
I see no fun in the perspective of making tens of test flights with possible OOMs. sad.gif

Thanks in advance if anyone drops a line.

Best regards,
Rafal


Like I said, this problem will happen when you push FS9. No matter what plane.

I have had this occur in the LVD 767, F1 Super 80, Wilco 737 and of course the PMDG planes (both the 747 and the 737).

When you run so many add on's the game becomes very memory intensive.

I must use the 3GB patch or I get the OOM errors. The only draw back is the fact I can't use AES. It came down to choices for me. Fly stock airplanes and use AES. Or fly complex stuff and go with no AES. Not to mention I can max the heck out of everything now the the 3GB patch installed.

I have my fibgers crossed Oliver will come up with a soloution to the AES/3 GB problem.

I would also like to add, using the 3GB has CURED the OOM errors for me.
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#25 Rafal Haczek

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 23:53

QUOTE (altstiff @ Jun 28 2008, 01:03 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No matter what plane

I'm sure it may be like that.
However: a moment ago I recreated the same flight which ended up with the OMM error before. Arriving at Heathrow with everything full.
Same time, same weather, same amount of traffic (100%). Also VC+TrackIR4. The only change was: PMDG 747-400 into Level-D 767-300ER.
Guess what? NO PROBLEM!
I'm not saying I've caught the bandit (PMDG 744) but it clearly needs some more investigation.
As I said, the problem for me appeared after installing PMDG 744.

QUOTE (altstiff @ Jun 28 2008, 01:03 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have my fingers crossed Oliver will come up with a soloution to the AES/3 GB problem

So am I! Oliver is magician so it's just a question of time.

QUOTE (altstiff @ Jun 28 2008, 01:03 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would also like to add, using the 3GB has CURED the OOM errors for me.

That is very good, however I know well how much compromises hurt.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Best regards,
Rafal
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#26 altstiff

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 02:41

QUOTE (VORJAB @ Jun 27 2008, 18:53 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm sure it may be like that.
However: a moment ago I recreated the same flight which ended up with the OMM error before. Arriving at Heathrow with everything full.
Same time, same weather, same amount of traffic (100%). Also VC+TrackIR4. The only change was: PMDG 747-400 into Level-D 767-300ER.
Guess what? NO PROBLEM!
I'm not saying I've caught the bandit (PMDG 744) but it clearly needs some more investigation.
As I said, the problem for me appeared after installing PMDG 744.


So am I! Oliver is magician so it's just a question of time.


That is very good, however I know well how much compromises hurt.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Best regards,
Rafal


The OOM error is hit and miss in some cases. It has to do with the way a program uses memory. I'm no expert and someone can correct me if I'm wrong but from the way I was reading it over at Phil Taylors Blog was like this.

This user VA memory is allocated in "chunks", so say the PMDG needs 512 and then at another point it needs 768, and then it only needs 512 again, the unused memory gets gobbled up and kept by the program even if the program is not using it, up to a certain point when it will give back a chunk. I never learned what that chunk size is mind you.

And this expalins alot of the reason why some get errors and some do not. I think you will find that as more and more people use memory intensvie add on's more and more will have this problem. The AVSIM forums are flooded with people having OOM errors.

I think that the LVD will not cause OOM errors as frequently as say PMDG you will get one.

The first plane I had an OOM error with was the Coolsky MD80. I could fly my PMDG 747 all over the world at one point, but not the super 80.
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#27 jsheldon

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:42

I'm also having problems with the PMDG 747/Aerosoft Heathrow combo.
I'm getting the OOM error at exactly the same point every time I'm on the approach to 27R.
Surely it must be related to something specific in the scenery as opposed to a random occurence. I use the 747 everywhere else without a problem. Even more strange is the fact that this has only just started to happen as I have been happily making the same approach many times previously without any problems. I have also not installed anything new recently.

Any help will be gratefully received by all of us I'm sure !!

Jonny
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#28 Autopiloth

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 14:56

Just for information: Did you update the 747 with the latest PMDG patch released at May, 12th?
If not it should be worth to try. The CTD´s with PMDG 747 at EGLL (or other) is somehow related to navigation aids (ILS,VOR) as I experienced
As soon as you capture a glideslope or a specific NAV frequency becomes active it could crash.

Thorsten
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#29 jsheldon

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 15:09

QUOTE (Autopiloth @ Jun 30 2008, 15:56 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just for information: Did you update the 747 with the latest PMDG patch released at May, 12th?
If not it should be worth to try. The CTD´s with PMDG 747 at EGLL (or other) is somehow related to navigation aids (ILS,VOR) as I experienced
As soon as you capture a glideslope or a specific NAV frequency becomes active it could crash.

Thorsten



I did install the update - as it happens I've just uninstalled it as I thought maybe that was what was causing the problem. I'm going to give it a go again this evening without the patch and will report back....
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#30 Rafal Haczek

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 15:37

Unfortunately during my OOM crashes described above I was flying with the latest patch.
For now I'm tired with stressful testing, so my 747-400 was towed back to the hangar.
So it's time to fly twin-engines again. Not that I mind...

There is something in the PMDG programming that doesn't like mega hubs, especially Heathrow.
I know some simmers (like alstiff) were getting the errors in various aircraft.
But for me it was (and hopefully that wii remain) only PMDG 744.

Best regards,
Rafal
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#31 Autopiloth

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:06

@VORJAB
a suggestion: Rename the AFCAD AF2_EGLL.BGL file of Heathrow to *.OFF (better move it to a directory outside FS)
and try again. As I said before it is in most cases a problem of NAV installation in combination with 744. Removing the AFcad file will set back all navaids to default (for testing). Please make also sure that you are NOT using any other custom AFCAd file for EGLL.
It could be that a custom AFCAD file (London Heathrow which uses the SAME frequencies for both RWY ends which is extraordinary) causes some problems with the 744 radios.
Beside that switch Ai to 0% for testing to asure that not a specific corrupted AI aircraft that ONLY in London appears is causing that trouble.
3GB patch etc. must be correctly installed if using more than 2 GB RAM on 32bit XP!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is nothing "special" in EGLL scenery itself that could cause an aircraft CTD. Just 3D data and textures. The only "communicating to aircraft" file that comes with the scenery is the AFCAD. And the AFCAD provides place for Ai aircrafts that possibly wont show up at other places.
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#32 crash_continental

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 00:11

Oh, man.

My OOM errors are back! It was solved for a while, and now I again can't finish a PMDG744 flight back into Heathrow.

Two things (only, I think) have changed. 1) Bought a new 26' widescreen monitor, and now fly in 1920 x 1200 resolution. 2) Installed FSX, just to check it out.

What now, I wonder...?
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#33 Dave_M

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 15:38

I have had an out of memory problem with Heathrow 2008 in FS9 as well. I can start a flight from EGLL but if I try tofly to EGLL in a fairly complex aircraft ie, PMDG 747 I get the OOM, even if I am flying close to EGLL I will get the error.

At first I thought it was specifically the PMDG 747 but I had a similar OOM when flying the FLight1 ATR to EGLC when I came within about 40 nm of EGLL I got an OOM, I have repeated the flight a few times but disabled EGLL and had no OOM. I also had began a long haul flight with the PMDG 747 from EHAM and while climbing to cruise flew close to EGLL and had an OOM. After all of this I have disabled EGLL and have no OOM in the area.

One thing I did find was that if flying into EGLL in the 747 and the OOM occurs I could still save the flight. The flight would then reload successfully with the saved panel state and I could continue the landing at EGLL.

My observation is that if flying a fairly complex aircraft into Heathrow 2008 when FS9 loads the scenery an OOM is caused, this OOM does not occur if Heathrow is loaded initially ie starting a flight there.

Recently I have also had this occur with the new frankfurt scenery and the PMDG 747, both times I saved the flight after the OOM, restarted and landed succesfully.

By the way I tried the 3GB switch but couldn't get it to work successfully on my system.

Dave
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#34 crash_continental

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 22:05

I just had a successful flight, believe it or not. Maybe too early to tell...

The only thing I changed: FSUIPC TCAS monitoring. It was set to monitor 100, for some reason. I set it to 10 and did not get an OOM error. (Under the PMDG drop down menu in FS2004, in the options window)

I''l do some more testing and see if this stands up. I'd appreciate it if others with the same problem try it as well...
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#35 B777ER

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 01:18

The PMDG 744 even with the latest patch for it with FS9.1 is just a OOM lover. I can fly the 744 into some Fly-Tampa stuff and default stuff but that is it. For the most part, the 744 is never flown because of the OOM errors. If you want a flight to end with no OOM into places like EGLL and EDDF (the newest sceneries), just do not use the 744 like me. I fly the PSS777 and LVL-D 767 for the most part. I only hope the upcoming FS9 version of the MD11 from PMDG is no where like the resource hog 744 is.
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Eric

#36 Rafal Haczek

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 08:40

Eric, I share you thoughts and I also replaced 744 into 763 for my London and Frankfurt arrivals. No OOM so far.

However, one more thing I have to research is the navigational thread Thorsten mentioned.
I've bought credits for Navigraph and I may give PMDG another try to London (when I feel like) with the latest AIRAC.
I wonder if it changes anything.

And I see you were lucky to backup your files before PSS did the trick of cutting their customers off their purchased products.
I wasn't and, even though I made a review for this bird, I was left on the ice.
A pity since there could be a nice merge after Posky releases their tripple seven.

Best regards,
Rafal

EDIT:
PSS has made their customer files downloadable again. I downloaded the basepack and liveries last night. I'm a happy 777 pilot again. smile.gif
So, if there's anybody else who had no acces to their files, go and get them!
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#37 crash_continental

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 14:52

Last update, as this thread is practically dead.

Seems no joy for PMDG 747-400 and Heathrow 2008, at 1920 x 1200. Constant OOM errors, without fail. After everything I have tried (going on months now) I have not been able to isolate the problem, and have no clear idea what it might be, despite pulling apart and reassembling by fs2004 installation. Further, no one seems to have any clear ideas of what the problem truly is; duplicate AFCADs, missing texture files, page file size, driver updates, etc., etc. Filemon has given hints, but no real leads. I am totally without recourse now, but to choose between EGLL and the PMDG 747-400...

As a last observation I have seen many people with higher end nVidia cards (such as my 9800GX2) and multicore systems (such as my quadcore, 2.4 Q6600) have this same problem, with no solutions. Perhaps we've pushed fs2004 beyond it's limits? No one can say for sure...
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#38 okleber

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 21:56

The crashes are only partly related to the PMDG 747.

Flew into EGLL yesterday using an ifdg/PSS merged airplane, had no problems landing on 27L. Today with the CS757 two crashes at the very same spot on final to 9L.

As mentioned several times already taking off from EGLL is ok.

And btw. I do have the 3GB switch activated.

Oliver
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#39 FlyNext

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 02:59

this problem is located to the PMDG 747... Very unfriendly for third party airports such like EGLL... It will not happen if you fly the Level-D oder any other plance... Complex system cause Complex problems... If they try to fix this the fall back arround 50% to the reality...
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#40 VulcanB2

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 13:46

QUOTE
If this works Aerosoft might want to include a utility for this fix that determines viability and calculates the numbers accordingly, and then applies the boot.ini rewrite. Then again, that could just be a huge can of worms...

No thanks! I get upset when the fundamental parts of my system start being "tweaked" by 3rd parties. dry.gif

This occurs (for me) with other aircraft than just the PMDG 744. I don't believe they all suffer the same faults. The common point is the scenery. dry.gif

A good point ref the Level-D 767. I'm going to re-fly this route with that and shall see what happens. There goes another 11 hours...

Despite my moaning however, I do like this scenery a lot!! biggrin.gif

Best regards,
Robin.
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