Meyerflyer 154 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Hello, on about four or five of my seven or eight flights with the Airbus Professional so far, I had a strange issue on final approach. I was fully established on the ILS, about 3-5nm out, when the Bus suddenly starts to bank to one side (I think it was to the right every time it happened). Just for 2-3 seconds and then begins to stabilize on the ILS again. I never had this behaviour in the old bus. I just wanted to ask, if anyone had this issue, too? I'm quite sure it is no weather problem, because my AS4 is configured almost the same like my AS16 in P3D v3 before. But I cannot say that 100% sure. To me, it looks like a short wrong ILS signal, which the bus tries to catch and then re-join the "right" ILS signal. Or it is a very strong gust, but it was about the same distance to the threshold and everytime the same way. Had this on different airports. Would be great to know, if anyone saw this, too, or if I'm the only one having this. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suniram 6 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Yes, I experience the same issue with the A319 I was thinking about a framerate drop first. But I can rather disregard that as I monitored it once and there was no drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Thank you. That's interesting, you got the same issue. For information. Last time I saw this issue was on approach to Dusseldorf (JustSim) with the A320 CFM. Sudden right bank for 2-3 seconds about 3-4nm out on the ILS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted September 12, 2018 Aerosoft Share Posted September 12, 2018 Almost certainly that happens when the scenery engine loads the majority or airport objects. Some scenery puts that all at the same range and this leads to a very short cut in FPS and that would explain this issue totally. We seen it happen with some scenery ever since the first bus was released. As we do most things on a frame by frame base this can occur. The faster the disk is the less it will affect the sim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Mhm makes sense at least a little. Is the new bus so much more demanding on hardware, or is it the higher details in P3D4? Never had an issue of this kind in P3D3. And my disk is a quite fast Samsung 850 SSD which should be fast enough. Is there anything I can do? The only thing my system lacks a bit is the speed of the RAM. I only have a 16GB crucial 1866MhZ. If I rember it right, the recommended RAM specs of P3D v4 is a bit higher and DDR4 instead of my DDR3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragged^2 40 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Meyerflyer said: Is there anything I can do? The only thing my system lacks a bit is the speed of the RAM. I only have a 16GB crucial 1866MhZ. If I rember it right, the recommended RAM specs of P3D v4 is a bit higher and DDR4 instead of my DDR3. Memory speed has almost no impact on game performance, usually. I also see it on a i7 8700k + DDR4. The sim is still far from optimized for modern hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Btw. I'm running P3D quite smooth otherwise with about 35-45 FPS even on complex airports. So my sim is not on the low end in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 gerade, Fragged^2 sagte: Memory speed has almost no impact on game performance, usually. I also see it on a i7 8700k + DDR4. The sim is still far from optimized for modern hardware. Thanks for your hint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragged^2 40 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Meyerflyer said: Btw. I'm running P3D quite smooth otherwise with about 35-45 FPS even on complex airports. So my sim is not on the low end in general. The problem is the high fluctuation in frame times with the sim. On approach the framerate might dip close to 0 for a fraction of a second. The new bus apparently does FBW/AP calculations per frame. This causes the plane to jump around like crazy at times when the sim stutters on approach. London is really bad for example with EGKK, EGLL and EGLC payware airports and all the autogen buildings. I'm sure AS could do something about how touchy the FBW/AP is with stutters, but the biggest issue is the sim itself. Be it absolute performance limits due to poor hardware utilization or the myriad of poorly documented / explained settings. The sim gives no idea for users on which sliders affect CPU / GPU / VRAM / RAM usage, not to count all the possible .cfg tweaks. Sorry for the rant.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Well, thanks. That at least helps me understanding what's going on on approach. Possible "workaround" could be deactivating the AP before the scenery objects are getting loaded. Will have to find out if it only happens on AP. I expected P3D4 to be much more effective on hardware and stuff like this. But except for the better looking environment, LM seem to not have done very much on the sim engine. At least not that much I expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suniram 6 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 hmm...I am using an indicator for current, average, maximum and minimum framerate which shows exactly those possible framerate drops (which is for me always the most important data, being the average or max framerate for example completely irrelevant for smoothness). But I couldnt detect any at that moment... I will have a close look next time again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted September 12, 2018 Aerosoft Share Posted September 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, Fragged^2 said: I'm sure AS could do something about how touchy the FBW/AP is with stutters, Basically not, it would mean a complete change of how we handle things. Basically we see this issue every time a large amount of data is loaded. This can be weather, scenery etc. Some developers try to stagger these load events and that makes the sim a lot smoother. Others do not do anything about this and just assume the sim can handle it. With P3d v4.3 we see far less of these issues and we also see it more caused by non sim events. For example scheduled scans of the disk, or other background tasks of the OS. Two weeks ago I assisted a customer who had massive problems with this. It turned out to be cause by the RAID driver that was activated in the BIOS (or how that is called these days). Every 10 minutes it would try to connect to the non-existing RAID system and would eat massive amounts of resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted September 12, 2018 Aerosoft Share Posted September 12, 2018 There are no tools we know that will be able to log very short low FPS events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suniram 6 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Ok, it could of course be that extremly short drops are not being shown... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth78 56 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I had this happen to me last night, twice on the same approach in roughly the same location, on RWY 8 ILS approaching LatinVFR's TJSJ. It seemed as though the the bulk of the airport had loaded during the base leg just before turning to final at WESEN (P3D hiccuped a little but the Bus was fine), but I suppose it's quite possible more objects were loading at that mid-final location. Fortunately, it's not any more disruptive than mild wind shear. Also, during the initial descent and approach into TJSJ I had experienced 3 instances of the Bus violently pitching and rolling, which I am almost certain was caused by bursts of ground texture loading. The blurries and missing autogen remained until after landing. (I thought I had fixed that issue!) The second attempt was from a "just in case" save I had fortunately made just before TOD, with some CFG changes to try and root out the blurries. It seemed to work (granted, the descent didn't follow a takeoff from NYC and 3 hours of flying and whatever latent effect that may have had) and the Bus behaved fine save for "plunging" at a high rate of open descent. Even with those improvements (and no blurries over San Juan) the little ILS hiccup still occured - so the theory that it's being caused by the airport scenery definitely seems to hold merit. What I ought to do is test at some little airport in an area with no add-ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted September 12, 2018 Aerosoft Share Posted September 12, 2018 If is happens more or less in the same location that's a good indication that is is related to loading of files. Easy to check though, disable the add-on airport and do it on the default version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 I understand everything that has been written so far, but can anyone explain to me, why a split second (or let it even be a second) dramatic FPS drop results in the Bus deviating from the ILS for 3-5 seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted September 12, 2018 Aerosoft Share Posted September 12, 2018 Because the flight path is calculated again with every new frame. If this is not done often enough our prediction code (that's the base for a lot of things will not get enough data input. That could lead to strong steering input to counter something that did not happen. A good remedy seems to be to run at unlimited FPS btw. The FPS limiter in the sim has been broken since FS2002 and external frame rate limiters have no connection to the sim so won't unlock resources for other tasks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 On 12.9.2018 at 16:52, Mathijs Kok sagte: Because the flight path is calculated again with every new frame. If this is not done often enough our prediction code (that's the base for a lot of things will not get enough data input. That could lead to strong steering input to counter something that did not happen. A good remedy seems to be to run at unlimited FPS btw. The FPS limiter in the sim has been broken since FS2002 and external frame rate limiters have no connection to the sim so won't unlock resources for other tasks. Hello Mathijs, I'm sorry I have to get this one out of the dark. I'm really bugged with this behaviour and it gets me out of realism every time on the ILS, so basically on every single approach I fly. It always starts to bank right, sometimes 2-3 times within 2 minutes. There has to be an improvement with this behaviour. I never had problems like this in P3D3 and the sim engine in P3D4 is even better. And I don't know any other plane in P3D banking like this on the ILS. For me this is a serious issue thas has to be prevented somehow. Please take my request serious and have a closer look here. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted October 25, 2018 Aerosoft Share Posted October 25, 2018 We sure take it serious, but other then what we already suggested there simply is no reason to understand it. At this moment we know it happens to you and two other users, we simply have no idea why and until we can recreate it there is no way we can change anything. That said I can recreate it easily, but creating the low FPS conditions that we believe causes this. But as we explained that is an issue we simply are unable to change and will not spend time on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meyerflyer 154 Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 vor 1 hour , Mathijs Kok sagte: We sure take it serious, but other then what we already suggested there simply is no reason to understand it. At this moment we know it happens to you and two other users, we simply have no idea why and until we can recreate it there is no way we can change anything. That said I can recreate it easily, but creating the low FPS conditions that we believe causes this. But as we explained that is an issue we simply are unable to change and will not spend time on. I understand what you are saying but i can't imagine there are only three customers having this issue. And I guess there are already 10.000-20.000 users flying the new bus. The fact that gets me believing there must be more customers is that my computer is quite strong. There are many weaker computers that should be even more affected than mine. Mhm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerosoft Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558 Posted October 26, 2018 Aerosoft Share Posted October 26, 2018 How fast your system is only plays a limited role. If there is some process that eats up all you fps for a second you can run into an issue like this. Easy to test, do a flight with minimal settings, if it does not happen you know pretty sure what is the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jespersson 17 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I can confirm that I have the exact same issue. Mathijs explanation sounds very likely to be fair but I agree with Meyerflyer that I wish there was some magical fix for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenrw 59 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I have had this a few times on approach but im not 100% sure its any thing to do with frame rates , each time my frames have been above 18 FPS (28-30 locked at 30), i think its the Airbus trying to center the LOC while on final as each time its happened to me the LOC was ever so slightly off center and the Airbus Banked to the right or left to try and align ...it is an excessive bank but i dont think its due to the frame rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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