A340-4

318/19 Crazy descend rates

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Guys,

 

Even though we're not able to reproduce this, I didn't want you guys to think that we're not listening or looking at this - we are.

 

Now the truth of the matter is that relatively speaking there is only a very small percentage of customers who have reported this issue, and as I've said we're not able to reproduce this.  But starting next week I'll have 7 guys with 7 different systems looking at this. 

 

I have a working theroy that at least part of this is due to how the FMGS is being programmed and that is SOME cases weather is playing a role, and in at least one other case it was due to stuttering (that one has been resolved).  Even if all of these factors are considered, there are still more things to look at.

 

So again, I just didn't want you guys to thing that we're listening with deaf ears.  Unless we stumble on something, our testing will last for 7 days (lots of things to look at and different routes to fly).  So please be patient.

 

One thing... if you've had this problem and haven't provided your complete route and flight level... please do so and we'll have the guys fly your route.

 

Thanks for your continued patients.

 

 

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vor 12 Stunden , DaveCT2003 sagte:

 

 

I did notice that this is a VERY short route.  Do you have the same experience with say a 2 hour flight?  Also, with such a short route I'd really like you to take a look to see if the SID and STAR crossing restrictions are programmed into the FMGS and that no short cuts are being taken.

 

What was your cruise altitude for that flight?

 

 

 

vor 13 Stunden , DaveCT2003 sagte:

 

I don't mind telling you that this one is really throwing us for a loop, especially given that we're not able to replicate it.

 

Are you checking to verify that all the waypoint and STAR crossing restrictions on the chart are correct in the FMGS?  I ask, because maybe they are not correct and the FMGS is diving like mad to reach one that is there?

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

I'm gonna Check all parameters regarding restrictions very carefully this evening. But as it happens every Single flight, no matter what the destination is, I assume, that might not be the key.

 

I do know, that the flight was very short, I did it to check the CI 50 setting quickly. But I promise you, it also happens on 2 or 3 hour flights.

 

And don't worry, I Personally never had the feeling, nobody at aerosoft would listen. I rather find it wonderful, how caring you guys Are. Thanks for that! The other way round, I definitely do not want to be that annoying customer, who points at that Problem, yelling "fix that first". I simply want to help you as much as I can, to make that wonderful plane even better :).

 

Best wishes

 

Tom

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On 8/6/2018 at 8:12 PM, Mathijs Kok said:

Thanks! Do believe me that we monitor this issue. 

 

What I have seen myself is that there are weather engines that could play a factor by sending in rather severe wind changes to get a more detailed weather pattern (we are NOT fans of that). Als the aircraft (certainly the 319) is rather picky on speed management in the initial stages of descend. There is a lot of information about this on the web but what is clear is that you should not try to slow down and start a descend at the same time. You will be behind the curve the whole time.

 

Also keep in mind that descend profiles are not set in concrete, nothing wrong with some spoilers when you need it. Just make sure you assign an axle to thed spoilers so you can give a little bit and do not have to set it binairy.

 

In last few days i made 3 test flights (A318):
1) EPGD (rwy11) - EGLC (rwy27) with Active Sky 2016 live real time mode
DEXI2B DEXIR T671 VEKON L730 VAVUN Z491 BODLA Z717 GARLU UZ717 DLE UL980 RKN UM20 GORLO UL980 XAMAN JACK1D
2) The same route EPGD (rwy11) - EGLC (rwy27) with clear sky weather (without Active sky 2016).
3) EPGD (rwy29) - EPKT (rwy27) with Active Sky 2016 live real time mode
IRLU2H IRLUN N133 NEGUV M66 KUKAM KUKA2D

 

Initial descent rate at the T/D are aggressively in all flights and it was around 5500-6000 fpm for first flight (strong wind on initial descend)(screen 1) and 4000 - 5000 fpm for second and third. In the remaining of the descent path in flight 1 and 2 descent rate was good and it was about 2500 fpm. The exception was the third test flight where the descent was around 4900 fpm (screen 2) and more at waypoint NEGUV at FL210.

 

Screen 1.jpg

Screen 2.jpg

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I did one more test flight today and the same problem occured again. My route:

EGLC (dep rwy27) - LZTT (arr rwy:09) with Active Sky 2016 live real time mode

CLN1A CLN UL620 NOMKA L620 HLV P27 LIPMU LIPM1S

T/D was 72nm before runway 09 (it seems to me, that point T/D has been to close to the airport) and initial descent rate was 7000 fpm (i think it's to much). The wind was stable.

 

2018-8-12_14-29-38-532.jpg

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Ok Gents,

 

I finished just now another flight and prepared all data.

The flight was disaster. ;(

Flight Plan: LSZH - EDDT

N0450F380 DEGE2W DEGES DCT ROMGA Z1 ETAGO DCT TIKNI/N0450F370 N746 ROBEL T200 RUDAK RUDA5V

 

I managed descend ~ 10 nm before TOD, the plane started descend at rate ~ -6000 fpm.

Using speed brakes increased a rate much more. 

The weather was clear and flight was smooth.

I used CI 50 for this flight as was suggested before.

 

Link to the video on twitch : 

 

 

I put the plane in the hangar. I want to fly it but I can't. sorry....

 

Aerosoft team please help. I am despaired. 
 

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

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Guys, please pay attention that the problem with the vertical aggressive speed in Managed mode is happening not only on descend but during climb as well. It happens every single flight with me. And I made so many flights already to/from different locations around the world. The rest is working smooth.

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On 8/2/2018 at 10:56 AM, A340-4 said:

Hello;

Question for you guys: Does anyone here have issues with the descend rate of the Bus? Im getting crazy descend rates up to 6000 FT/M. Does this happen to anyone else in here?

Thank you

 

I have  this  issue :   when  approching aircraft starts   ascending like  crazy at high rate.  Last thing  happened was   after  descend initiated  descending  was  at very  low rate so I changed  vertical  speed to 4000fps and no change  to descending  whatsoever. 

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On Saturday I could see this issue for the first time myself on a customers system. IIt was indeed strange and unexplainable. As this was a system that was updated with the client only we deleted the sim and all it's temp folders and installed the sim and aircraft again. In the short try we could do (running out of time) we could no longer recreate the issue. 

 

The fact this seems to affect our bus and not other aircraft seems to be because we compiled with the June 2018 Lockheed compilers (that's the ones that make things so much faster).

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37 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

On Saturday I could see this issue for the first time myself on a customers system. IIt was indeed strange and unexplainable. As this was a system that was updated with the client only we deleted the sim and all it's temp folders and installed the sim and aircraft again. In the short try we could do (running out of time) we could no longer recreate the issue. 

 

The fact this seems to affect our bus and not other aircraft seems to be because we compiled with the June 2018 Lockheed compilers (that's the ones that make things so much faster).

 

I have completely new hdd on my pc with clean win10 and full latest installation of P3D V4, and still have same problem (look at my post above) so the version of the P3D seems to not have nothing to do in my situation.

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49 minutes ago, raf120 said:

 

I have completely new hdd on my pc with clean win10 and full latest installation of P3D V4, and still have same problem (look at my post above) so the version of the P3D seems to not have nothing to do in my situation.

 

Maybe not the P3D version, but the way it was installed or some other addons that affect or tweak the sim.

That's why it could be related to a customers system, even though it was a clean install of the latest P3D version.

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1 minute ago, Emanuel Hagen said:

 

Maybe not the P3D version, but the way it was installed or some other addons that affect or tweak the sim.

That's why it could be related to a customers system, even though it was a clean install of the latest P3D version.

Hi Emanuel,

 

Do you know which add-on/s may cause this?

Cause we can easily check it by removing that add-on. 

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Just now, gregoryv said:

Hi Emanuel,

 

Do you know which add-on/s may cause this?

Cause we can easily check it by removing that add-on. 

 

Unfortunately not (yet), the only thing we know at this point is that for the one customer where Mathijs saw the issue only a total clean P3D installation solved the issue, including deleting all he leftover folders after the P3D uninstallation.

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4 hours ago, gregoryv said:

Agree with raf120.

 

Same here. Latest "fresh" p3d version is installed (not just an update).

 

Okay so we have two users who reported this condition. Would you be so kind to fly the step-by-step flight and see if you see the same there? As thousands of customers must have flown that it's the best flight to work on.

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One of our Beta Testers and I flew the same route yesterday in the A319, I suffered a CTD (StackHash, which one might see once a year even if they don't have any issues...just a burp).  The other tester experienced 5000ft per minute descent rate.  He's in the process of writing up all the data on it.

 

Along with what Mathijs said, looks like we've been able to replicate it twice now.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Mathijs Kok said:

But that is twice on several tens of thousands of customers now.

 

Absolutely!

 

Even though I had a CTD, I did fly half of the descent and it was picture perfect. 

 

I asked Grant to fly without updating or manually entering any wind data, and I have to double check that he did that.  If so, then the wind data might be the culprit.

 

 

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Mathijs excuse me but this is not serious comment.

I think there are more than 2 people having issues, even more than 4.

I don't know about hundrets ot thousands you are talking about. Maybe they dont have any issue but I do.

I sent any info you requested and asked for help. 

The answer that thousands other customers dont have any issue dont help me or other people to solve this issue and for me it is critical.

 

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4 minutes ago, gregoryv said:

Mathijs excuse me but this is not serious comment.

I think there are more than 2 people having issues, even more than 4.

I don't know about hundrets ot thousands you are talking about. Maybe they dont have any issue but I do.

I sent any info you requested and asked for help. 

The answer that thousands other customers dont have any issue dont help me or other people to solve this issue and for me it is critical.

 

 

Greg,

 

We ARE looking at this, and we ARE taking it seriously.  We just tasked 7 guys with 7 different systems to devote a solid week (part time) to looking into this.  That is CONSIDERABLE resources and it pulls them off other important things they could be working on.  The number is 8 counting me, though I'm working on several different things at once.

 

What Mathijs is trying to say is that this is difficult one to pin down because the vast majority of our customers don't have this issue.  Mathijs has to address many issues spanning the width and breadth of this (and other) projects and like any one in that position some responses are not as detailed as they might be if one wasn't so overwhelmed.

 

We appreciate your patience my friend.  We're really are taking a hard look a this.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

Greg,

 

We ARE looking at this, and we ARE taking it seriously.  We just tasked 7 guys with 7 different systems to devote a solid week (part time) to looking into this.  That is CONSIDERABLE resources and it pulls them off other important things they could be working on.  The number is 8 counting me, though I'm working on several different things at once.

 

What Mathijs is trying to say is that this is difficult one to pin down because the vast majority of our customers don't have this issue.  Mathijs has to address many issues spanning the width and breadth of this (and other) projects and like any one in that position some responses are not as detailed as they might be if one wasn't so overwhelmed.

 

We appreciate your patience my friend.  We're really are taking a hard look a this.

 

 

Hi Dave.

I am very appreciate it!

 

Meanwhile I did a few things:

1. I reinstalled airbus completely (including deleting all folders).

2. I did another flight without updating wind data. Same route as last flight. Unfortunately same happened and the plane reached -5000ft/m during descend.

 

Greg

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27 minutes ago, gregoryv said:

Mathijs excuse me but this is not serious comment.

I think there are more than 2 people having issues, even more than 4.

 

The fact thousands of people do NOT have this issue as far as we know is a pretty serious answer. It seems hard to refute that, right? I am pretty sure there there are more people who have this issue and when they report them we'll seriously look at them. But we can only work with the information we have. If you feel the issue is with the code I ask y9ou the simple question, who do other people do NOT have this issue?

 

We are really sorry you got the issue but we got to keep logic in mind. If there are thousand of people NOT having a problem and handfull have I think we are in pretty save territory saying the files are fine. The only other logical solution would be that all the other thousands of users got some weird sim install that just matched what we worked for. No be honest, that does not sound logical.

 

With every single release we ever did we had exactly these problems, for a certain number of customers things do not work. In the past I invited them to come by them and have full unlimited access to their system and solve the issue. If it was solved they would pay all cost, if it was not I would pay. One time a Greek gentleman (a friend now) took me up on that offer. I wiped his disk, installed Win10, P3d V3 (it was not recent), the Airbus A320 and shown him it worked exactly as I said it would.

 

See, in the end it is all about numbers. We sold many thousands of copies, we gotten a lot or fine feedback. I understand and accept you have an issue, but again, if you blame the code, explain why thousands do NOT have the issue. Your comments are pretty visible here, but as proof that the code is fine let me give you a sample (!) of the feedback we had. Are all these customers wrong?

 

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Mathijs,

 

1. I didn't say even one time that the problem is with the code. Did I? I just said that I have an issue.

A few other people commented the same.

 

2. One of the feedback's of people that like the product is mine.

 

3. I don't want to argue with you as I have much respect to you and whole Aerosoft team.

I just asked for help. Sorry it doesn't getting along your statistics.

 

4. I waited for this product for a long time and supported this development in many Facebook groups.

So I am not looking for problems, throlling and etc. I am 39 years old and have enough things to do in my life.

 

5. The bottom line, sorry for bothering you. I don't know what to do and I leave it here.

 

Greg

 

 

 

 

 

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Today I was flying the same route as gregoryv with the settings he gave, expect the weather (i have clear weather without winds)

Flight Plan: LSZH - EDDT

DEGE2W DEGES DCT ROMGA Z1 ETAGO DCT TIKNI N746 ROBEL T200 RUDAK RUDA5V

CI - 50

I managed descend 10 nm before TOD and the plane start descending with rate around 5700 fpm. After that to FL150 aircraft descending with around 4000 fpm , then he accelerated to 6000 fpm. Last turn before final approach aircraft again start descending with 4000 fpm.

 

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Because there were a few overlapping topics and it was getting a bit confused I created a fresh topic. Please read and follow up there:

 

 

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