DenisC

High climb rate and stall

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I guess this is a limited issue, only to a few users, but it is keeping me from using the Aerosoft plane.  Sad.

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Aerosoft Needs more screenshots and videos, I think. I had a good video but the nVidia overlay droped the solution. I will try to get recorded flights. @all affected users: Please post everything you can get from probemtaic flights.

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Hi Victor,

I had the same issue many times on managed climbs. Now, I pretty well always set the climb rate and have no issues. But, I think, it was my climb out technique that causes the issues..

 

The idea is to carry out the initial climb out manually until you get into Climb Detent, then when engines settled down, engage auto pilot for managed climb. Maybe one of the Devs can comment on the correct way...

 

 

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vor 41 Minuten, por928 sagte:

Hi Victor,

I had the same issue many times on managed climbs. Now, I pretty well always set the climb rate and have no issues. But, I think, it was my climb out technique that causes the issues..

 

The idea is to carry out the initial climb out manually until you get into Climb Detent, then when engines settled down, engage auto pilot for managed climb. Maybe one of the Devs can comment on the correct way...

 

 

 

That is exactly what I do since I have this Problem. My Observation is not to activate the ap before reaching the ACC ALT and setting climb thrust. It helpes against the high climb rate but  it's not explaining the hard descent angle after initiating descent.

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1 hour ago, por928 said:

Hi Victor,

I had the same issue many times on managed climbs. Now, I pretty well always set the climb rate and have no issues. But, I think, it was my climb out technique that causes the issues..

 

The idea is to carry out the initial climb out manually until you get into Climb Detent, then when engines settled down, engage auto pilot for managed climb. Maybe one of the Devs can comment on the correct way...

 

 

Hi all,

 

I can't comment on the simulation code, but I prefer to set climb / descent rate manually.  I initially set a modest rate then activate managed mode when things have settled down.  A lot of real world operators do this for the safety of their passengers.  I know it's a different type and scenario but the following report is quite interesting:

 

Quote

"Pilots are reminded during training that they must not hesitate to use a lower level of
automation if required to maintain the aircraft’s flight path."

 

Here's the report - happy reading!  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/700630/AAIB_Bulletin_5-2018_Hi_res.pdf

 

Dave.

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We are still looking actively into this issue but with very limited success. Though we can force problems by overspeeding etc, when we do everything by the book we simply do not see these problems on our systems. And as it seems to be happening to a limited number of people we need to figure out what is special about there systems. Always very hard.

 

People who have this.... could it be you are using an updates sim? So 4.1 or 4.2 updated to V4.3 using rhe client update?

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1 hour ago, Mathijs Kok said:

People who have this.... could it be you are using an updates sim? So 4.1 or 4.2 updated to V4.3 using rhe client update?

 

Thanks, Mathijs! I think the strategy for this is already mentioned elsewhere, but could you [please] remind us again what the recommended/correct procedure is for ensuring the cleanest v4.3 update (short of a complete reinstall)? A link will do ;)

 

There may be a people in this topic that have got some leftover "undesirables" that may be affecting this issue.

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3 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

We are still looking actively into this issue but with very limited success. Though we can force problems by overspeeding etc, when we do everything by the book we simply do not see these problems on our systems. And as it seems to be happening to a limited number of people we need to figure out what is special about there systems. Always very hard.

 

People who have this.... could it be you are using an updates sim? So 4.1 or 4.2 updated to V4.3 using rhe client update?

Hi Mathijs, in my case, 4.1 and 4.2 were all updated by client update only. When the Herc  was released with 4.3, I updated 4.3 via the client and cont1 and cont2 modules. I always check each time BEFORE I load P3D if there has been any A318/A319 updates, which I apply. I apply the HiFi mods as well...When P3D moves up, then all must follow....

This P3D version of the A318/A319 airbus appear more "sensitive" to weather and pilot inputs and the rocket ship climbs and descents easy to achieve if a less than ideal set of climb/descent parameters are presented to the aircraft. The FSX versions of the A318-A321 I have are a lot more "stable", though, maybe less realistic!  than the P3D versions...But, your aircraft did not take several years to produce, so few mods here and there are to be expected.

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It starts to look like we see pattern. 

  • If there is a full clean install of the sim (with removal of the shader folders etc) the issue is not seen
  • If the sim is updated the issue is seen on some systems.

We now have 9 customers were this is the pattern and so far none where this is not the pattern. We also have three customers who did a full clean install of the sim and they had the issue solved. Now this would fit in very well with other issues we have seen where weird stuff happens that we could not understand or recreate.

 

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10 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

It starts to look like we see pattern. 

  • If there is a full clean install of the sim (with removal of the shader folders etc) the issue is not seen
  • If the sim is updated the issue is seen on some systems.

 

 

Could I please ask for further clarification on this, as this often causes users some confusion?

 

1) By shader folders - do you mean the shaders CACHE ... or the shaders folder in P3D root?

2) What do you mean by a "full clean installation"? A complete wipe of P3D and all associated add-ons and content?

 

Thanks!

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3 hours ago, Adamski_NZ said:

 

Could I please ask for further clarification on this, as this often causes users some confusion?

 

1) By shader folders - do you mean the shaders CACHE ... or the shaders folder in P3D root?

2) What do you mean by a "full clean installation"? A complete wipe of P3D and all associated add-ons and content?

 

Thanks!

 

The shaders folder in the C:\Users\[YOUR USERNAME]\AppData\Local\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 folder.

 

You can uninstall the sim and that will leave the Sim Root folders and your addons in the Documents folder (or where ever you installed them to).  Then reboot, and when you do a full install of P3DV4.3, it will automatically detect any addons that were previously installed via the XML method (the vast majority of P3DV4 products).

 

It's quick and painless!  The longest part is downloading V4.3.

 

Best wishes.

 

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In my case I did a fully new Installation of P3Dv4.3 several times. I've uninstalled it like Lockheed discripted the procerdure on their website (deleting all P3D folders). For me the issue was not solved by a clean Installation.

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Maybe a silly question, but I wanted to cover all the bases.  Are you placing the thrust levers in the Climb Detent and verifying that speed and altitude are actually in the managed mode (not just pushing in the associated buttons, but verifying the mode on the FMA?

 

 

 

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On 8/10/2018 at 4:37 AM, Adamski_NZ said:

could you [please] remind us again w

My upgrade was from 4.2 to 4.3, using the two main folders method, not a complete reinstall.  The shaders were not untouched.  Should I remove the shaders and reinstall them?

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9 hours ago, BumpsyDaisy said:

My upgrade was from 4.2 to 4.3, using the two main folders method, not a complete reinstall.

 

Have you followed the LM Update Guide and uninstalled the previous version first? Or have you just run the installer to install above your existing P3Dv4.2?

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I worked on a system on Saturday that had the issue and I could actually see it for the first time. When we deleted the sim and all temp folder and installed the sim and aircraft again the issue was no longer seen.

 

We now have a pretty good idea why this affects our aircraft and not others. The simple reason is that it seems to affect only add-ons that are compiled with the June 2018 compilers from Lockheed (the ones that makes things so much faster)

 

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31 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

The simple reason is that it seems to affect only add-ons that are compiled with the June 2018 compilers from Lockheed (the ones that makes things so much faster)

 

That's great news, Mathijs. I couldn't help smiling when I read the last part!

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2 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

I worked on a system on Saturday that had the issue and I could actually see it for the first time. When we deleted the sim and all temp folder and installed the sim and aircraft again the issue was no longer seen.

 

We now have a pretty good idea why this affects our aircraft and not others. The simple reason is that it seems to affect only add-ons that are compiled with the June 2018 compilers from Lockheed (the ones that makes things so much faster)

 

Great news Mathijs. It was good you managed to get a machine that had the issue and identify a probable cause. I even got out my FSX machine and tried their A318/A319 and their climb/descent are very predictable with no aerobatics...

 

So, where to next? 

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I do not know where to go next. We now know the cause for at least some of the users (if not all). If the sim is not installed correctly you might have these (and some other!) issues if the add-on is made with the latest tools. 

 

There is still nothing we think we can change in our code as these very strong effects only seem to happen with a hand full of users. Of course we;ll continue to monitor.

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25 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

I do not know where to go next. We now know the cause for at least some of the users (if not all). If the sim is not installed correctly you might have these (and some other!) issues if the add-on is made with the latest tools. 

 

There is still nothing we think we can change in our code as these very strong effects only seem to happen with a hand full of users. Of course we;ll continue to monitor.

Thanks Mathijs, So, you seem to be saying, that maybe "IF" we were to fully reinstall all modules for P3D v4.3, rather than the short cut method, then just maybe, the bus would behave for those of us with the problem. However, most of us do think we installed the updates correctly, or at least as per LM recommendations.

I guess most people think when they update to the new version of P3D, eg, from 4.2 to 4.3, they do not want to reinstall every add on again, so maybe a little nervous about a full reinstall..

 

I recall "poppet" from LM had some great info about updates, maybe a visit to their site and ask about full reinstall and where the add on reinstall becomes necessary.

  

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The main problem is caused by updates which haven't followed the LM Update Guide. If that guide has been followed chances are really dim to run into problems. 

 

Or in other words: users could fix their problems by either repeating the update (according to the guide) or by a full re-install of P3Dv4.3.

 

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7 minutes ago, Tom A320 said:

The main problem is caused by updates which haven't followed the LM Update Guide. If that guide has been followed chances are really dim to run into problems. 

 

Or in other words: users could fix their problems by either repeating the update (according to the guide) or by a full re-install of P3Dv4.3.

 

Hi Tom,

Umm, so, you think if we uninstalled say.. the client and reinstalled it with the new LM installer, all is well...OR when you say update, you mean the full monty, basically, every module?

 

This is the guide I have been using...https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120861

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An update is an update and a re-install is a re-install. If you don't want to do a full re-install you can do the update, e.g. of the client only. Important is, that you follow the update date provided by LM in that case. 

 

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Mathijs said in his reply, "The simple reason is that it seems to affect only add-ons that are compiled with the June 2018 compilers from Lockheed", so, did LM produce a later version of their installer? eg, after June?

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