DenisC

High climb rate and stall

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Hello,

I saw the same topic (http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/137263-high-climb-rate-below-10000ft-and-flex-temp/) but it is closed, and I saw no answer.

Same problem thanStarScream345 and thenewbpilot

As soon as I engage the autopilot after take-off, an incredible rate of climb is performed by the A318 which provokes a stall. (Throttles in CL mode)

Denis

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I had the opposite Problem during a flight from EDDS to ENGM: I was initiating the managed descent very early from FL350 to FL240 because of an ATC instruction and the bus was descending with 7000ft/min and wanted more. There was no reason for a fast descent in the flight plan. I had to switch to selected mode, to give me back a normal descent. All managed descents afterwards were working without any problems.

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I've had this happen to me as well. It seems random, which makes it really difficult to induce/replicate. The whole aircraft just goes beserk for a while (I've also had this happen in steady cruise as well).

 

Adam.

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1 hour ago, Aldarean said:

I had the opposite Problem during a flight from EDDS to ENGM: I was initiating the managed descent very early from FL350 to FL240 because of an ATC instruction and the bus was descending with 7000ft/min and wanted more. There was no reason for a fast descent in the flight plan. I had to switch to selected mode, to give me back a normal descent. All managed descents afterwards were working without any problems.

I had the same observation: I had to switch to selected mode (and impose a lower vertical speed) and then switch back to managed mode and it eventually (sometimes after 2 trials) it came back to normal climb.

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If anybody has an idea how to recreate this reliably we can look into it, so far we have not been able to see this on our systems (unless the MCDU data has not fully been correctly inserted).

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Yesterday I made a complete new Installation of P3D and the Bus. I've started the following flight:

 

EDDF DCT TOBAK N858 SWALM T201 ROBEL T200 RUDAK EDDT

SID: TOBAK 1K

 

While flying the SID ATC (ProATC/X)  told me to climb onto cruise altitude (FL280). Speed at this time: 230 KT. I entered the new altitude into the FMS and pressed the knob to initiate a managed climb. Immediately, the plane began to climb at more than 5000ft / min and shortly afterwards I got the stall warning. I had to press the knob again to continue in selected mode. Even after another managed climbing attempt, the aircraft wanted again steeply upwards. It was not until I arrived at the point DF992, the last point with a constraint, that I could continue to climb normally in managed mode.

 

I will try this flight again these days and hope that I can get some screenshots or a replay for you.

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Likewise, I'll keep a sharp eye on things - and be ready to grab whatever info I can.

 

EDIT: One thing I noticed just now (whilst viewing the wonderful exterior model in outside view): the throttle position appeared to jump out of its proper "speed" position - and had gone into "Climb+Flex" mode, causing the rapid climb. I hadn't touched the throttle (physically) at all ... so maybe it's a control issue <?>.

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Vor 1 Stunde, Adamski_NZ sagte:

Likewise, I'll keep a sharp eye on things - and be ready to grab whatever info I can.

 

EDIT: One thing I noticed just now (whilst viewing the wonderful exterior model in outside view): the throttle position appeared to jump out of its proper "speed" position - and had gone into "Climb+Flex" mode, causing the rapid climb. I hadn't touched the throttle (physically) at all ... so maybe it's a control issue <?>.

I can not confirm that in my case. The ATHR was always in speed mode.

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As promised, there are now a few screenshots  of the mentioned problem. It happend shortly after take off, the SID was TOBAK9D this time.

 

1922184573_Screenshot(35).thumb.png.3d08dbc1c67ff2fc86573fd24dc86ea8.png2104807592_Screenshot(36).thumb.png.dd88ffc5122be421e9ed9b1b700cbb1b.png

 

1562788173_Screenshot(37).thumb.png.859831d605ce8e6918d135aaa1244bd0.png

 

A minute later I could climb in managed mode like nothing was happend

 

2067654141_Screenshot(38).thumb.png.401c14c77b954c697180bee9e6917b1b.png

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I haven't encountered any such issues.

 

Usually these types of issues can be as simple as a noisey joystick. Not saying one way or another that's your issue. But I'd make sure everything is all squared away there.

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vor 5 Stunden , eserafinojr sagte:

I haven't encountered any such issues.

 

Usually these types of issues can be as simple as a noisey joystick. Not saying one way or another that's your issue. But I'd make sure everything is all squared away there. 

 

My Joystick works fine. In case of a noisey josystick the autopilot would be deactivated automaticly.

 

At the moment I reinstalled P3D and addons at least 3 times, but I have this problem during every flight

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Looking at the pictures we can say the following:
Pictures 1&2: It seems you just engaged the AP, that's why it's still climbing at that rate. If you activated the AP when you were climbing at that pitch already it will take a bit of time until it can correct for it. It won't push the nose over like you'd do in a glider when the rope of the whinch ruptures.

Picture 3: You then switched to V/S, but the thrust levers are still in FLX. Thus the Airbus can't reduce thrust and you start running above your target speed.

Picture 4 then looks normal, everything as expected.

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Vor 1 Stunde, Emanuel Hagen sagte:

Pictures 1&2: It seems you just engaged the AP, that's why it's still climbing at that rate. If you activated the AP when you were climbing at that pitch already it will take a bit of time until it can correct for it. It won't push the nose over like you'd do in a glider when the rope of the whinch ruptures.

 

I was climbing manual to 800 ft with a climb rate of anything between 1500 to 2000 ft/min, than I've activated the AP and the climb rate jumped up to the high rate you can see in Picture 1 and 2. I had to cancel the managed climb to get no stall warning

 

Vor 1 Stunde, Emanuel Hagen sagte:

Picture 3: You then switched to V/S, but the thrust levers are still in FLX. Thus the Airbus can't reduce thrust and you start running above your target speed.

 

You're right, I forgott to set climb thrust, so the bus maybe wants to correct the speed with a higher rate of climb. It's rather Pictures 1 and 2 that worry me.

 

 

I give it a new try at the weekend with a beeter focus on the speed and let you know

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Don't know if this will help, but I had this problem and realised that unlike the previous versions of the Aerosoft Bus, the altitude does not default to being in managed mode from the turnaround state. If you forget to put it into managed mode, the aircraft will not follow the climbout profile and will try to climb at too high a vertical speed. Now I remember to do this before taxiing out, and it seems fine.

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@Aldarean

What is strange is that only few seconds after leaving the runway you're already reach 1800fts and more than 200kts, still in flap 1 config AP1 already engaged.

Is the plane empty?

What was the act weight and calculated v2 ?

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vor 13 Minuten, blahhh sagte:

What is strange is that only few seconds after leaving the runway you're already reach 1800fts and more than 200kts, still in flap 1 config AP1 already engaged.

Is the plane empty?

 

No. I had between 90 and  120 Pax, and about 3000 kg cargo.

 

vor 14 Minuten, blahhh sagte:

What was the act weight and calculated v2 ?

 Yes and yes. Always calculated with fuelcalc. and takeoff calc.

 

 

It's a was long time now, that I don't had any problems. Yesterday I was flying from LFMN to LOWI. Shortly after I reached cruise lvl on FL350 ATC instructed me to initiate the descent. I typed ind FL280 and pushing the knob. The airplane was immidietly descending with more than 4000ft/min without any understandable reason (no red ball on the right side of the PFD or anything). After using selected mode and switching back to managed mode, the aircraft was normally descending with 1000ft/min.

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On 7/26/2018 at 7:58 AM, Aldarean said:

 

It's a was long time now, that I don't had any problems. Yesterday I was flying from LFMN to LOWI. Shortly after I reached cruise lvl on FL350 ATC instructed me to initiate the descent. I typed ind FL280 and pushing the knob. The airplane was immidietly descending with more than 4000ft/min without any understandable reason (no red ball on the right side of the PFD or anything). After using selected mode and switching back to managed mode, the aircraft was normally descending with 1000ft/min.

 

Where did you type FL280 into? If you put it in as a new cruising level the Airbus will simply go to IDLE and pitch for speed. That could lead to a 4000fpm descend. If you get an early descend simply dial in the new level and press the ALT knob. You don't need to update the FMGS if you simply want to start your descend a bit earlier.

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vor 18 Stunden , Emanuel Hagen sagte:

If you get an early descend simply dial in the new level and press the ALT knob. You don't need to update the FMGS if you simply want to start your descend a bit earlier.

 

That was exactly what I did. And after this the bus wanted to sink with such a high descent rate. Normally the plane will descent with 1000ft/min when you push the knob until the normal profile gets closer from the top or you stop it manually. But in my case I had to stop the descent with a push on the V/S knob. After this you can switch to managed mode again (pushing the ALT knob again) and the bus is descending with his 1000ft/min. I have this problem nearly every flight. Last time yesterday when atc told me to descent from FL350 to FL280 (EDDB to LFMN).

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Another info: If the described problem occurs with the descent, the checklist will not continue. The callout "initiating descent" just does not come then. Only when I pressed the V / S knob to stabilize the bus and then press the ALT knob and the bus goes back to a normal descent, the callout comes.

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This happened to me while i was close to a waypoint which asked for crossing above 6000, i was 3 miles away and at 2500 manually climbing. I engaged the AP and it raced to the sky looking to comply with the restriction. Power was already on THR CLB and airplane was in clean config. After takeoff checklist was done. it reached 25 degs pitch up speed dropped like a brick and eventually alpha floor was reached. But it complied with the restriction :rolleyes:

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8 hours ago, Aldarean said:

 

That was exactly what I did. And after this the bus wanted to sink with such a high descent rate. Normally the plane will descent with 1000ft/min when you push the knob until the normal profile gets closer from the top or you stop it manually. But in my case I had to stop the descent with a push on the V/S knob. After this you can switch to managed mode again (pushing the ALT knob again) and the bus is descending with his 1000ft/min. I have this problem nearly every flight. Last time yesterday when atc told me to descent from FL350 to FL280 (EDDB to LFMN).

 

2 hours ago, Aldarean said:

Another info: If the described problem occurs with the descent, the checklist will not continue. The callout "initiating descent" just does not come then. Only when I pressed the V / S knob to stabilize the bus and then press the ALT knob and the bus goes back to a normal descent, the callout comes.

 

Thank you Ludwig, we will have another look at the code in the time to come and we will certainly check this one out as well!

 

The checklist hanging might be a very good hint as to why this happens, thank you!

 

1 hour ago, Viperlead said:

This happened to me while i was close to a waypoint which asked for crossing above 6000, i was 3 miles away and at 2500 manually climbing. I engaged the AP and it raced to the sky looking to comply with the restriction. Power was already on THR CLB and airplane was in clean config. After takeoff checklist was done. it reached 25 degs pitch up speed dropped like a brick and eventually alpha floor was reached. But it complied with the restriction :rolleyes:

 

Thanks for the report, if things like this happen please always take a screenshot and upload it together with your report.

Otherwise we simply miss too much data to undertake a serious investigation into the issue.

We'll try to replicate your issue, but chances are that without further information the issue will not occur to us as we do not know the exact circumstances under which it happened.

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I had planned to document everything petty on my flight today (a screenshot for each MCDU page, video evidence, etc.) and of course, then, everything goes according to plan :rolleyes:. I keep trying.

 

vor 5 Stunden , Emanuel Hagen sagte:

 

Thank you Ludwig, we will have another look at the code in the time to come and we will certainly check this one out as well!

 

The checklist hanging might be a very good hint as to why this happens, thank you!

 

Thanks for your patience. 

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My report:

I use the fuel planner to send my data to the a319.

I set the mcdu using a company route editor flight plan and info from the shift 4 mcdu

my climb perf page shows managed all the time.

I set to two clicks for take of (man flex), plane handles fine manually.

I punch ap1, OK, then rapid climb to stall speed, ap overcompensation.

second flight, I waited longer to engage ap, it seemed smooth in the climb and then angled to 6000fpm with the same results as the first flight

third flight, same.  Wild roller coaster

 

 

 

2018-8-2_13-13-40-841.thumb.jpg.af852b9bbdf3d7f819d938e4a974db84.jpg

 

 

 

2018-8-2_13-15-52-892.jpg

 

 

 

 

2018-8-2_13-17-2-397.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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this is my fuel and weight data....   the plane takes entries in kgs, correct?  that's what I use.

 

Untitled.thumb.jpg.d2cc9c12cd93e6e13845e40503ac8a52.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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