Aircraft data/weights

[disco79stu 38]

vor 1 minute, bill3810 sagte:

Older picture but it's not locked on 154, I will have to wait until i get in front of my Gaming PC to help you any further.

Maybe I'm reading this value wrong or too strict, maybe it's max pax according to the rest of the load, regardless of airline seat configuration...

 

 

[bill3810 109]

1 minute ago, disco79stu said:

Maybe I'm reading this value wrong or too strict, maybe it's max pax according to the rest of the load, regardless of airline seat configuration...

 

 

this would be based on the configuration.  A318 or A319.

[disco79stu 38]

vor 5 Minuten, bill3810 sagte:

this would be based on the configuration.  A318 or A319.

 

oh, I see. so based on the airline I choose, the MCDU gives me the available seats? Really? I have to check this..... that would be the answer.

 

Still, no matter what you choose in the sim, the fuel planer will only have the option for 124 seats:

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[disco79stu 38]

Well, it does not change according to airline.

On my system, no matter what airline i choose, the A319 MCDU always shows 156 max passengers.

 

Then again, the aircraft info says "150 passengers" .... *sigh*... it's all a big mess. Or I just don't get it.....   

 

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[bill3810 109]

I'll look into this one further for you.

[bill3810 109]

21 minutes ago, disco79stu said:

 

oh, I see. so based on the airline I choose, the MCDU gives me the available seats? Really? I have to check this..... that would be the answer.

 

Still, no matter what you choose in the sim, the fuel planer will only have the option for 124 seats:

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We are not modeling "Airline specific configurations"  only A318 or 319 at the moment. (as listed in the fuel planner)

[masterhawk 799]

The missmatch in the options MCDU and AC selection screen is noted and on the list.

[bill3810 109]

On 7/13/2018 at 10:12 PM, disco79stu said:

Hi!

Where can I find the correct weight data for the A319 (I want to create a profile in simbreif)?

 

 - OEW (Empty Weight)   
- MZFW (Max Zero Fuel Weight)    
- MTOW (Max Takeoff Weight)   
- MLW (Max Landing Weight)   
- Max Fuel Capacity

 

Thanks,

Stu

 

Back in front of my PC, since this was the original question asked I went through the fuel planner playing with the numbers and for those looking to build a Sim Brief Aircraft Profile here are the numbers you can enter.

 

Simply moved sliders until I get red indications on the Fuel Planner and indicated those weights.  The same can be done with other data as needed until numbers become available.

 

Sim Brief:

 

Pax Weights:  80 kg (175 lbs)

Bag Weights:  55 kg (25 lbs)

 

A318

 

Empty Weight:  39,508 (87,100 lbs)

Max Fuel Capacity:  19,151 (42,221 lbs)

Max Taxi Weight:  68,400 (150,797 lbs)

Max Take Off Weight:  68,000 (149,914 lbs)

Max Landing Weight 62,500 (126,767 lbs)

Max Zero Fuel Weight:  54,500 (120,152 lbs)

 

A319

 

Empty Weight:  39,725 ( 87,579 lbs)

Max Fuel Capacity:  19,151 (42,221 lbs)

Max Taxi Weight: 75,900 (167,332)

Max Take Off Weight:  75,500 (166,449 lbs)

Max Landing Weight: 62,500 (137,789 lbs)

Max Zero Fuel Weight: 58,500 (128,970 lbs)

 

 

[DaveCT2003 2553]

3 minutes ago, bill3810 said:

 

Back in front of my PC, since this was the original question asked I went through the fuel planner playing with the numbers and for those looking to build a Sim Brief Aircraft Profile here are the numbers you can enter.

 

Simply moved sliders until I get red indications on the Fuel Planner and indicated those weights.  The same can be done with other data as needed until numbers become available.

 

A318

 

Empty Weight:  39,508 (87,100 lbs)

Max Fuel Capacity:  19,151 (42,221 lbs)

Max Taxi Weight:  68,400 (150,797 lbs)

Max Take Off Weight:  68,000 (149,914 lbs)

Max Landing Weight 62,500 (126,767 lbs)

Max Zero Fuel Weight:  54,500 (120,152 lbs)

 

A319

 

Empty Weight:  39,725 ( 87,579 lbs)

Max Fuel Capacity:  19,151 (42,221 lbs)

Max Taxi Weight: 75,900 (167,332)

Max Take Off Weight:  75,500 (166,449 lbs)

Max Landing Weight: 62,500 (137,789 lbs)

Max Zero Fuel Weight: 58,500 (128,970 lbs)

 

 

 

 

Interesting.  I came up with a Max Landing Weight of 57500kg on the A319.... using the fuel planner.

 

 

[bill3810 109]

14 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

 

 

Interesting.  I came up with a Max Landing Weight of 57500kg on the A319.... using the fuel planner.

 

I played with it a couple of times, best if each user does it on their own to see, however using the latest testing version this is what I come up with.

It would be interesting to note if others have different results, please check.

 

 

 

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[DaveCT2003 2553]

1 minute ago, bill3810 said:

 

I played with it a couple of times, best if each user does it on their own to see, however using the latest testing version this is what I come up with.

It would be interesting to note if others have different results, please check.

 

 

 

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I understand what you mean Bill, but the user is trying to develop a profile for use on SimBrief.

 

[disco79stu 38]

vor 2 Stunden , bill3810 sagte:

 

Back in front of my PC, since this was the original question asked I went through the fuel planner playing with the numbers and for those looking to build a Sim Brief Aircraft Profile here are the numbers you can enter.

 

Simply moved sliders until I get red indications on the Fuel Planner and indicated those weights.  The same can be done with other data as needed until numbers become available.

 

Sim Brief:

 

Pax Weights:  80 kg (175 lbs)

Bag Weights:  55 kg (25 lbs)

 

A318

 

Empty Weight:  39,508 (87,100 lbs)

Max Fuel Capacity:  19,151 (42,221 lbs)

Max Taxi Weight:  68,400 (150,797 lbs)

Max Take Off Weight:  68,000 (149,914 lbs)

Max Landing Weight 62,500 (126,767 lbs)

Max Zero Fuel Weight:  54,500 (120,152 lbs)

 

A319

 

Empty Weight:  39,725 ( 87,579 lbs)

Max Fuel Capacity:  19,151 (42,221 lbs)

Max Taxi Weight: 75,900 (167,332)

Max Take Off Weight:  75,500 (166,449 lbs)

Max Landing Weight: 62,500 (137,789 lbs)

Max Zero Fuel Weight: 58,500 (128,970 lbs)

 

 

Thanks for the effort!

But I don‘t quite agree with your simbrief passenger calculations. Where did you get the values 80/55?

When I‘m planning with 100pax, I get a payload of 10.4t. That would mean 84 kg body weight plus 20 kg of baggage per passenger (104 kg p.P. total). 

 

I will check if the ZFW matches the sim (A319) when I add 100pax and 2t baggage (Empty weight of 39.725t plus 100x84kg plus 100x20kg). 

 

[bill3810 109]

23 minutes ago, disco79stu said:

Thanks for the effort!

But I don‘t quite agree with your simbrief passenger calculations. Where did you get the values 80/55?

When I‘m planning with 100pax, I get a payload of 10.4t. That would mean 84 kg body weight plus 20 kg of baggage per passenger (104 kg p.P. total). 

 

I will check if the ZFW matches the sim (A319) when I add 100pax and 2t baggage (Empty weight of 39.725t plus 100x84kg plus 100x20kg). 

 

 

From the Sim Brief Help File:  

 

The desired number of passengers to transport, used in weight calculations. The system calculates 230 lbs per passenger (175 for the person, 55 for their bags) and adds this weight to the aircraft's OEW (Empty Weight) to derive the ZFW (Zero Fuel Weight).

 

Online conversion gave me the 80/55 for Sim Brief.

 

From the Fuel Planner AS:

Pax 84 & 25 KG.

 

So you will have a difference.

 

You have to realize you will NOT get the numbers to match on AS and Sim Brief without tickling the Fuel Planner.  I'm doing some testing flights now to see the accuracy of the fuel planner with what is flown and then i wills see what kind of Fuel Factor we need to use for Sim Brief.  

 

I have a system I've used in the past which has worked nicely, takes less than a minute to adjust and you're in the sim.  I'm just doing some testing now to look at some data.  You can use what ever you like, but AS Bus is not designed to match Sim Brief, the Fuel Planner is designed to match the numbers in the AS Bus.

 

[disco79stu 38]

So here we go.

With my current simbrief profile, I get quite promising results, although there is a tiny variation. 

Also, I will have to treat baggae as cargo (simbrief doesn't) in the Airbus.

 

With 100 pax, simbrief gives me 10.4 tons of payload. This adds to the empty weight and gives me 50.2 t ZFW. 

In the Airbus (OR in the fuel planner) I can now choose 100 pax and add the baggage as cargo. Voilá, 50.1 t ZFW. 

 

See my screenshots for a comparison: 

 

 

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[bill3810 109]

There ya go, I just made the ZFW in the planner and Sim Brief match, adjust your ZFW CG and add fuel and off you go.

 

The fuel is the biggest discrepancy, i usually show substantially more for fuel burn on the load planner which is what i'm checking on accuracy, if it's right on then you just put in around 15% Fuel Factor and it should be close, with small adjustments as you go.

 

We receive fuel degradation reports monthly and adjust that in the MCDU each month per aircraft, you can do the same.

[disco79stu 38]

Just tested it with a different amount of passengers. It worked.

 

But it's all based on the assumption that the pax weight is 84 kg plus 20 kg of baggage.

And you will have to calculate the baggage to have a value to put in as cargo in the Airbus. 

 

Alternatively you could change the pax weight in the Airbus to 104 kg and leave the cagro empty, but that won't work with the fuel planner....

 

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[bill3810 109]

I personally don't worry about pax/bags/cargo.  It's weight that i'm matching and I can make the CG where I want it.  If i'm doing this for real I adjust the baggage or passengers worst case scenario to get a Stab Trim of around 0.5-1.0 down.  I can do that with the CG slider in the Fuel Planner.  If you a stickler about EXACT passengers then you can make up your own system.  Here's what I do.

 

I generate the OFP with Sim Brief and select 0 for cargo.

 

I then go into the fuel planner for AS and adjust passengers and baggage to get the ZFW on the Fuel Planner and Sim Brief to match. 

Move the CG Slider to get the Trim I want.  0.5 - 1.0 Down and then Add the fuel and all numbers should be correct.  Done.

 

 

[bill3810 109]

Try this.  Go into Sim Brief and select 100 Pax with NO cargo. 

Generate the OFP.

Go to the fuel planner and generate the SAME passengers and DON't Touch the Cargo let it auto adjust.  Generate the loadsheet.

Go into the Sim. 

Select MCDU 3

Select LOAD/FUEL, Then SETUP, then change to 80 KG.

Then RETURN

INIT LOADSHEET

LOAD INSTANT

 

See if the ZFW matches Sim Brief.

[disco79stu 38]

vor 3 Minuten, bill3810 sagte:

Try this.  Go into Sim Brief and select 100 Pax with NO cargo. 

Generate the OFP.

Go to the fuel planner and generate the SAME passengers and DON't Touch the Cargo.  Generate the loadsheet.

Go into the Sim. 

Select MCDU 3

Select LOAD FUEL, Then SETUP, then change to 80 KG.

Then RETURN

INIT LOADSHEET

LOAD INSTANT

 

See if it matches Sim Brief.

I can‘t try right now but I guess it won‘t match because 100 simbrief passengers weigh more than 100 Aerosoft passengers. That has nothing to do with cargo, since cargo in simbrief only refers to real cargo (goods), not baggage. Selecting 0 cargo in simbrief won‘t keep it from loading the baggage anyway. 100 simbreif passengers weigh 10.4 tons. 100 Aerosoft passengers at 80kg each will weigh .... well, 8 toms. 

[bill3810 109]

Sim Brief - 100 Pax = 100 * 105 (80 kg Pax + 25 kg Bag) total weight:  10,500

Fuel Planner - 100 Pax = 100 * 83 (8300) + 2500 Cargo or Baggage(25 * 100)) = 10,800

Change MCDU 3 Pax from 83 - 80 (3 KG * 100) = -300

 

10,800 - 300 = 10,500. Payload

 

Since there are requirements to have cargo in addition to baggage, and for those that MUST have things match exactly (which all of this is avoided if you just make the ZFW match regardless of what's loaded) I will ask about one of the following.

 

1.  Adjusting the passenger weights in the fuel planner to include the baggage of guess what  (80 + 25 Sim Brief) ;-) and let the cargo slider be used for "Cargo"  OR

2.  Changing the CARGO slider in the fuel planner to read BAGGAGE which would auto adjust with the passengers (25 kg for each pax) and adding separate entry for "CARGO"  :-)

 

The way it's really done is passenger weight and baggage weight is for Carry On Baggage NOT baggage in the cargo hold.

You then have cargo hold baggage and then you have cargo.  Maybe an Option 3...i'll ask.

Note Some Airlines due have average baggage weights (checked baggage).

 

UPDATE:

 

As I look at this again a more simpler request would be the following.

 

1 - Make an entry on the fuel planner to adjust the Pax + Bag weight to what ever you want and have that number be reflected on the passengers slider.

2 - Cargo Slider NOT be auto adjusted and used for cargo alone.

 

This will allow you to adjust weights for winter or summer (sometimes done real world) and easily match external planners such as Sim Brief.

 

I'll let you know.

 

Regards

 

 

[disco79stu 38]

Yea, maybe we're taking this a bit too far ...   But thanks for your commitment, Bill! 

I think there are many ways to archieve a propper planing now, thanks to your (and that was my reques all along) correct empty weight data. 

 

I flew the FSL Airbus the past year, and I was very happy with their loading concept. I used these weight/loading-strips some mid-european airlines use (see image), and that worked perfectly with simbrief and David Katona's weight- and performance-calculator (pax & bags per seating zone/compartment, just like IRL) 

 

For now I'm okay with the above mentioned way to load the plane. But I do hope for a more detailed loading model / concept in the future... It's now pretty much the same as the old Aerosoft A320 in FSX....

 

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[bill3810 109]

No problem, what ever works for you just trying to help.  Good Luck to you.

[maxro 7]

For PFPX users: 

 

[masterhawk 799]

If you check the D:\xxxxxx\Documents\Aerosoft\General\A3XX Fuel Planner\AircraftData\Aircraft_318_319.xml you will see
passenger 84kg
bag 25kg

[bill3810 109]

Thanks Hawk

 

Also the adjustment is really too easy tbh.

 

Fuel Planner:  

 

Load Pax and Fuel to match the Sim brief Pax and fuel, let the cargo slider auto adjust for passengers bags.

If you have selected cargo in Sim Brief then from the current slider position move the slider to add the additional Cargo, then Send the Load Sheet.

 

Once in the Cockpit go to MCDU 3 under loadsheet and select setup to change the passenger weight to 80 KG (Same weight as Sim Brief Passengers) walla ZFW's match.

 

Once you have planned the flight in sim brief the fuel planner and the pax adjustment in MCDU 3 take a minute tops to adjust, too easy.