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engines not starting

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Working the tutorial, the battery and avionics-master trick didn't work (it just has an influence on the HSI and DME-indicators). But loading the default mooney with the engine running, then loading the DC-8, and then selecting cold&dark works for me. 

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17 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

shouldn't the Master Battery state be set when the aircraft is provided either Batt or Ext Power

 

In the update the default master battery will be forced on all the time.  The DC8 has its own custom battery code, but the default battery is needed for startup to work.  The problem never became apparent during development because none of beta testers nor I have a cold & dark default flights and our default batteries were on all the time.

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For what it's worth (and I hope it's worth something in terms of troubleshooting), I have one other payware aircraft that exhibits similar behavior - the PMDG DC-6 in P3D v4.  My default flight is cold and dark (I keep it that way because I fly a number of GA aircraft that don't have an easily selectable cold-and-dark state).  The only way I can get a good engine start on the DC-6 is to do what TheFinn suggested - I load my default (the Bonanza in my case), start it with CNTL+E, then load the DC-6, then select cold and dark.  Following those steps, engine start is 100 percent reliable. None of my other payware add-on aircraft (from A2A, PMDG and Aerosoft among others) or freeware (the Manfred Jahn C-47) displays similar behavior.  

 

Based on my DC-6 experience, I'm wondering if the issue might not be the battery state but rather the way the fuel system (or some other engine-specific parameter) is initializing.  I haven't put this to the test (I really should submit a ticket to PMDG but haven't so far), so it's just a working hypothesis at this point.

 

I've bought the DC-8 but haven't installed it yet (trying to finish a deadline project) so haven't yet tested things out with your aircraft, but I will as soon as I can.  Happy to try patches or alternative suggestions.

 

Again, hope this helps.

 

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2 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

Based on my DC-6 experience, I'm wondering if the issue might not be the battery state but rather the way the fuel system (or some other engine-specific parameter) is initializing.

 

Fuel tank selection is set up when the aircraft loads, no matter what the previous flight was. And the cutoff levers on the pedestal control the default shutoff valves. The only other possible problem with unwanted settings is with mixture - one beta tester had problems after setting a controller for mixture for use with a GA aircraft.  I'll look at that as well. 

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vor 38 Minuten, Michael2 sagte:

The F22 default flight shouldn't cause the problem. And with the master battery bug the engine doesn't spool at all when the starter is turned on.

 

When you talk about the fuel levers, do you mean the ones on the pedestal? Those are the ones you need to turn on after the engine starts spooling.  The levers on the fuel panel should always be set to main.  Leave those alone for engine starting. 

 

Thanks for the hint! Stupid me was fiddling with the fuel levers on the FE lower Panel... :banghead1_s:

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Its an easy mistake to make and I bet you're not the only one.  You should be good to go for engine starts!

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30 minutes ago, Michael2 said:

The only other possible problem with unwanted settings is with mixture - one beta tester had problems after setting a controller for mixture for use with a GA aircraft.

 

That's interesting - if I recall correctly, FSX (and probably P3D as well) interprets idle mixture as a fuel cutoff.  The Lotussim L-39 documentation flagged this specifically and required full rich mixture for startup.  I thought I'd deleted the mixture axis in the DC-6 but there might be a stray one.  I'll check - and I'll run these tests in the DC-8 once I'm set up.

 

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I did some more testing tonight and reporting my results.  I was NOT able to start the engines even with the TOGGLE_MASTER_BATTERY event (66241).  I also tried TOGGLE_MASTER_IGNITION_SWITCH (66535) event and still nothing.  The only event that would fire up the engines was TOGGLE_MASTER_STARTER_SWITCH (66725).

 

I tried setting up a default flight scenario with engines running from another aircraft - exit P3D, restart P3D, load DC-8.  Unfortunately that only partially worked .. I could start engine 1 and 2 only, even with plenty of compressed air pressure 40-50.  Has me baffled.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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9 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Has me baffled.

 

You're not the only one. 

 

Try the tutorial flight, go cold and dark using the loader pop-up and try again.  If this doesn't work, it will rule out some potential causes.  Don't toggle the default master battery, as with this scenario loaded it is on, and you would be turning it off.

 

This is what you need to start:

 

External power connected

Battery switch to EXT

Ignition knob (not switch) on overhead to ARM

External air connected and manifold pressure reading positive. 

Confirm cabin compressors off and freon compressors off.

Don't touch the fuel panel tank selector levers. (You can put the main boost pumps on, but it's not necessary to start)

Press starter button, blue light comes on.

N1 and N2 show movement.

Turn on the fuel for the engine you are starting using the little lever on the pedestal. 

 

It's very odd that you could start two engines and not the others.  The code is the same for each engine, except for the engine numbers.  Do you have any engine, ignition or fuel related functions mapped to controllers, axis or buttons?

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I haven't tried the Tutorial flight so I'll give that a go tonight.  The sequence you've listed is exactly how I perform it.  Will report back tonight ... determine to figure this out.

 

EDIT: Just curious, are you doing a TOGGLE_FUEL_VALVE_ALL or TOGGLE_FUEL_VALVE_ENG1 ... I know that's what Ctrl+E process uses (which works for me) ... suggesting this as I noticed that the "normal" mode of the aircraft is to have fuel valves open but I think that needs to be "triggered" i.e. TOGGLE_FUEL_VALVE_ALL.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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I'm having a very similar issue. After clicking on cold&dark, I'm not able to start engine number 4. Engine number 1,2 and 3 are starting fine and without issues. So I guess the start procedure is correct. 

 

Greetings

Tim

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34 minutes ago, Sar71 said:

I'm having a very similar issue. After clicking on cold&dark, I'm not able to start engine number 4. Engine number 1,2 and 3 are starting fine and without issues. So I guess the start procedure is correct. 

 

I suggest you go into your control settings and see if you have anything mapped to your joystick, quadrant, pedals, whatever you use, that relates to fuel, mixture, ignition, or master battery.  I have found over time that by default I had all kinds weird things mapped to my hardware without realising it that caused problems for me in the past.  If you have fuel mixture mapped to an axis try deleting the assignment to see if that makes a difference. At the very least make sure it's set to 100% if you don't want to delete the assignment.

 

Also, I have to ask, did both you and Rob install XMLTools as requested in the "Important -- Please Read" sticky post near the top of the forum? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sar71 said:

I'm having a very similar issue. After clicking on cold&dark, I'm not able to start engine number 4. Engine number 1,2 and 3 are starting fine and without issues. So I guess the start procedure is correct. 

 

I suggest you go into your control settings and see if you have anything mapped to your joystick, quadrant, pedals, whatever you use, that relates to fuel, mixture, ignition, or master battery.  I have found over time that by default I had all kinds weird things mapped to my hardware without realising it that caused problems for me in the past.  If you have fuel mixture mapped to an axis try deleting the assignment to see if that makes a difference. At the very least make sure it's set to 100% if you don't want to delete the assignment.

 

Also, I have to ask, did both you and Rob install XMLTools as requested in the "Important -- Please Read" sticky post near the top of the forum? 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Michael2 said:

did both you and Rob install XMLTools as requested in the "Important -- Please Read"

 

Yes, it was already installed from another product, but double checked (see below)

  

<Launch.Addon>
    <Name>XMLTools64</Name>
    <Disabled>False</Disabled>
    <ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>
    <Path>XMLTools64.dll</Path>
    <DllStartName>module_init</DllStartName>
    <DllStopName>module_deinit</DllStopName>
  </Launch.Addon>

 

I have FSUIPC5 disabled, is this required?

 

Cheers, Rob.

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19 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I have FSUIPC5 disabled, is this required?

 

No.

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I loaded up the DC-8 Tutorial flight, engines were already running, hit Shift+3 and clicked on Cold and Dark button, everything turned off, tried to go thru engine start sequence and didn't get any N1 or N2 movement.

 

Rob

 

 

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Maybe you could do a quick video of your start sequence?  Just a simple Windows key + G video (if you're on windows 10), like I did in the preview thread. I think it was page 10.

 

No rotation suggests one of the conditions necessary to toggle the starter isn't met. Namely:

 

default battery on -- should be met by loading the saved flight. It's set on.

DC8 electrical power - either battery switch set to BAT or external power connected (blue light on above the switch) and battery switch set to EXT PWR.

Both freon compressor switches  and all four cabin compressors off -- cold and dark will set them that way.

Manifold pressure over 26 psi.

Ignition armed. It's not the switches but the rotary knob on the overhead - marked STARTER & IGNITION  OFF ARMED

 

I'm reading this right from the code -- there's nothing else.

 

If it were a fuel problem there would be rotation, but no ignition and light off.

 

Is the blue light on the starter button coming on when you press it?

 

 

 

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Also the battery switch has three positions.  The middle position is off - it's hard to see the label from the default viewpoint

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I misspoke in the one post above.  Without ignition armed you will still get rotation, but no ignition and light off.

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Hi guys, 

 

I only have troubles starting one of the egines when I have push a second time by mistake one of the starters. My workaround has been pull the button and turn off the aux hydraulics and click again in the button. I use to make that mistake regarding the manual indication of "push and hold the engine starter" and instead of just push moving my mouse pointer and clicking again. Maybe this can help someone. In all sceneries, for example, loading a default aircraft before, loading and setting cold and dark, loading the tutorial, etc, I have not got this issue with starting engines more than clicking twice one of the starters by mistake. 

 

Cheers, Richard

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We'll have a new version for download tomorrow that will hopefully solve these issues.

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5 hours ago, richardgroy said:

I use to make that mistake regarding the manual indication of "push and hold the engine starter" and instead of just push moving my mouse pointer and clicking again.

 

The instruction in the checklist is copied from a real one and wasn't intended to be a literal instruction as to how to do it in the sim with your mouse.  All you have to do is left click on the starter button.  The button will hold itself until ignition occurs as explained in the Operating Manual. 

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11 hours ago, Michael2 said:

Is the blue light on the starter button coming on when you press it?

 

Yes sir! 

 

I'll do a video tonight of the sequence ... it's exactly how you outlined.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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